Ware and Allen off to rough start...

[natelpete]

Can we just get rid of PredatorPeppers once and for all? For the good of the entire PSD community.

[hugepatsfan]

Can we just get rid of PredatorPeppers once and for all? For the good of the entire PSD community.

There are some people that need to go before him.

[PredatorPeppers]

Somebody bring me some evidence that Ware and Allen have an impact like Julius Peppers does for his team, I challenge you.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/pos...julius-peppers

But in the meantime, how can we fairly judge Peppers' performance? As we've noted several times, his presence has allowed the Bears to limit their blitz frequency and devote more players to coverage. The results has been remarkable. According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Bears have the NFL's best pass defense when rushing four or fewer men.

The second chart provides those details. The Bears have rushed four or fewer men on about 70 percent of opponents' dropbacks this season. Opposing quarterbacks have a 66.6 passer rating in those situations, the lowest in the league.

"I've been seeing [extra help] a lot, just as I have my whole career," Peppers said. "It's not anything new. So you know, I'm being patient, I'm working hard. The sacks and stuff will come. I'm not really concerned about sacks right now. I'm concerned about winning games and being disruptive. I think I'm doing a good job at that."

http://www.panthers.com/team/roster/...-45bd307bd462/

[Peppers] Helped Panthers boast only defensive unit since the NFL merger in 1970 to improve from last in the League in total defense to second in one season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...eam/index.html

Though Peppers had but eight sacks this year, he had a huge impact on a defense that went from 21st in the league in points allowed in 2009 to fourth this year; from 4.3 yards per rush last year to 3.7 this year; from 29 touchdown passes surrendered last year to 14 this year. He pushes the pocket. He buzzes around the quarterback. He makes other guys -- Israel Idonije, Tommie Harris -- better.
There's no question the return of Brian Urlacher at the pivot point of the defense has been a significant addition, but Peppers has been the most important reason the Bears have become the Monsters of the Midway again, and that's why he's my defensive player of the year.
I considered Clay Matthews long and hard for this award, and it was close. Midway through the season, Matthews was the guy. But then I saw Peppers beat a wounded Jake Long for two of his three sacks against the Dolphins, and saw how he pushed Bryant McKinnie around on the Monday nighter in Minnesota. He's the John Stockton of the Bears defense, the guy who makes everyone around him better.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...ersbears011411

Peppers makes plays in spite of double teams and he empowers Smith’s Tampa 2-based defense to stick to its roots, relying on a four-man rush instead of counting on linebackers and defensive backs to blitz. According to Football Outsiders, the Bears rushed six or more defenders on 16.7 percent of passes in 2009, the third-highest rate in the league. They also sent only four players on 56.4 percent of pass plays (22nd). This season, though, the Bears have sent six or more defenders just 1.4 percent of plays (25th), and they relied on a four-man rush 72.2 percent of pass plays, the third-highest total in the league.

The Bears’ run defense was ranked second – its highest since the 2001 season – and it also allowed the third-fewest points (16.0).

Getting double- and triple-teamed is “just the way of life” for Peppers. He can’t remember the last game – if ever – someone counted on just an offensive tackle to handle him.

And although he didn’t get to 10 sacks, Peppers said he considers 2010 one of his best seasons.

“I don’t get concerned with that type of stuff,”

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ek4/index.html

The Bears should pay Julius Peppers in gold bars. Don't be confused by his average sack total (two in four games). He's been incredible for them and a different player than in his Carolina days. In the past, Peppers dominated during parts of games. Now, he's dominating entire games, proving to a new team how special he is. If Peppers keeps this up, I see him winning Defensive Player of the Year, hands down. Too bad he can't pad those sack stats against the Bears' offensive line.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz26mhkfeKz

Every year Peppers was with the Panthers, they always won at least 7 games, the year he leaves they only won 2 games. Meanwhile Chicago missed the playoffs 3 straight seasons, Peppers comes to town and they make the NFL Championship game.

[RedandGold_35]

[TheBigCheese21]

[PredatorPeppers]

That's what I thought.

[TheBigCheese21]

Dude i don't think anyone read what you wrote. That would be a waste of my life. No matter what anyone says, your hard on for Peppers is to great to overcome.

[natelpete]

Somebody bring me some evidence that Ware and Allen have an impact like Julius Peppers does for his team, I challenge you.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/pos...julius-peppers

But in the meantime, how can we fairly judge Peppers' performance? As we've noted several times, his presence has allowed the Bears to limit their blitz frequency and devote more players to coverage. The results has been remarkable. According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Bears have the NFL's best pass defense when rushing four or fewer men.

The second chart provides those details. The Bears have rushed four or fewer men on about 70 percent of opponents' dropbacks this season. Opposing quarterbacks have a 66.6 passer rating in those situations, the lowest in the league.

"I've been seeing [extra help] a lot, just as I have my whole career," Peppers said. "It's not anything new. So you know, I'm being patient, I'm working hard. The sacks and stuff will come. I'm not really concerned about sacks right now. I'm concerned about winning games and being disruptive. I think I'm doing a good job at that."

http://www.panthers.com/team/roster/...-45bd307bd462/

[Peppers] Helped Panthers boast only defensive unit since the NFL merger in 1970 to improve from last in the League in total defense to second in one season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...eam/index.html

Though Peppers had but eight sacks this year, he had a huge impact on a defense that went from 21st in the league in points allowed in 2009 to fourth this year; from 4.3 yards per rush last year to 3.7 this year; from 29 touchdown passes surrendered last year to 14 this year. He pushes the pocket. He buzzes around the quarterback. He makes other guys -- Israel Idonije, Tommie Harris -- better.
There's no question the return of Brian Urlacher at the pivot point of the defense has been a significant addition, but Peppers has been the most important reason the Bears have become the Monsters of the Midway again, and that's why he's my defensive player of the year.
I considered Clay Matthews long and hard for this award, and it was close. Midway through the season, Matthews was the guy. But then I saw Peppers beat a wounded Jake Long for two of his three sacks against the Dolphins, and saw how he pushed Bryant McKinnie around on the Monday nighter in Minnesota. He's the John Stockton of the Bears defense, the guy who makes everyone around him better.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...ersbears011411

Peppers makes plays in spite of double teams and he empowers Smith’s Tampa 2-based defense to stick to its roots, relying on a four-man rush instead of counting on linebackers and defensive backs to blitz. According to Football Outsiders, the Bears rushed six or more defenders on 16.7 percent of passes in 2009, the third-highest rate in the league. They also sent only four players on 56.4 percent of pass plays (22nd). This season, though, the Bears have sent six or more defenders just 1.4 percent of plays (25th), and they relied on a four-man rush 72.2 percent of pass plays, the third-highest total in the league.

The Bears’ run defense was ranked second – its highest since the 2001 season – and it also allowed the third-fewest points (16.0).

Getting double- and triple-teamed is “just the way of life” for Peppers. He can’t remember the last game – if ever – someone counted on just an offensive tackle to handle him.

And although he didn’t get to 10 sacks, Peppers said he considers 2010 one of his best seasons.

“I don’t get concerned with that type of stuff,”

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ek4/index.html

The Bears should pay Julius Peppers in gold bars. Don't be confused by his average sack total (two in four games). He's been incredible for them and a different player than in his Carolina days. In the past, Peppers dominated during parts of games. Now, he's dominating entire games, proving to a new team how special he is. If Peppers keeps this up, I see him winning Defensive Player of the Year, hands down. Too bad he can't pad those sack stats against the Bears' offensive line.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz26mhkfeKz

Every year Peppers was with the Panthers, they always won at least 7 games, the year he leaves they only won 2 games. Meanwhile Chicago missed the playoffs 3 straight seasons, Peppers comes to town and they make the NFL Championship game.

Didn't factor in the first two games of this season.

Julius Peppers: 10 seasons played, 154 games, 100 sacks, 10 sacks/year, 473 tackles, 47.3 tackles/year, .649 sacks/game, 3.07 tackles/game, 3.66 ff/year, .9 fr/year

Jared Allen: 8 seasons played, 125 games, 105 sacks, 13.125 sacks/year, 457 tackles, 57.125 tackles/year, .84 sacks/game, 3.656 tackles/game, 3.25 ff/year, 2 fr/year

Demarcus Ware: 7 seasobns played, 112 games, 99.5 sacks, 14.214 sacks/year, 480 tackles, 68.57 tackles/year, .888 sacks/game, 4.256 tackles/game, 3.857 ff/year, .714 fr/year

Basically, you are wrong in this universe. If you believe in the multiverse, you might be right somewhere else. I just proved you wrong, will you stop making these threads now?

[TheBigCheese21]

Didn't factor in the first two games of this season.

Julius Peppers: 10 seasons played, 154 games, 100 sacks, 10 sacks/year, 473 tackles, 47.3 tackles/year, .649 sacks/game, 3.07 tackles/game, 3.66 ff/year, .9 fr/year

Jared Allen: 8 seasons played, 125 games, 105 sacks, 13.125 sacks/year, 457 tackles, 57.125 tackles/year, .84 sacks/game, 3.656 tackles/game, 3.25 ff/year, 2 fr/year

Demarcus Ware: 7 seasobns played, 112 games, 99.5 sacks, 14.214 sacks/year, 480 tackles, 68.57 tackles/year, .888 sacks/game, 4.256 tackles/game, 3.857 ff/year, .714 fr/year

Basically, you are wrong in this universe. If you believe in the multiverse, you might be right somewhere else. I just proved you wrong, will you stop making these threads now?

Dude you just wasted your time. You forgot to figure in blocked kicks which make Peppers the best defensive player we have ever seen. And no the Peppers threads will never end

[moshy2]

Ware and Allen overrated

They are rated as 2 of the league's best and they are well deserved.

[PredatorPeppers]

Didn't factor in the first two games of this season.

Julius Peppers: 10 seasons played, 154 games, 100 sacks, 10 sacks/year, 473 tackles, 47.3 tackles/year, .649 sacks/game, 3.07 tackles/game, 3.66 ff/year, .9 fr/year

Jared Allen: 8 seasons played, 125 games, 105 sacks, 13.125 sacks/year, 457 tackles, 57.125 tackles/year, .84 sacks/game, 3.656 tackles/game, 3.25 ff/year, 2 fr/year

Demarcus Ware: 7 seasobns played, 112 games, 99.5 sacks, 14.214 sacks/year, 480 tackles, 68.57 tackles/year, .888 sacks/game, 4.256 tackles/game, 3.857 ff/year, .714 fr/year

Basically, you are wrong in this universe. If you believe in the multiverse, you might be right somewhere else. I just proved you wrong, will you stop making these threads now?

You forgot blocked kicks, Peppers has 12, Allen 1, Ware 0. Passes knocked down, Peppers has 57, Allen 43, Ware has 22. Peppers is also much better against the run than either, Ware plays overrated 3-4 outside linebacker and sees multiple 1 on 1 matchups vs running backs and tight ends. Allen is obsessed with sack totals and doesn't care about stopping the run. Although I've read different, I don't believe him seeing how all he does is pin his ears back and rush the QB. Peppers is 10 x the player either one of these guys could ever dream of being.

I almost forgot, Peppers has 8 interceptions, Allen 5, and Ware a wussy 1.

Please bring something stronger to the argument sir.

[darwin31]

You forgot blocked kicks, Peppers has 12, Allen 1, Ware 0. Passes knocked down, Peppers has 57, Allen 43, Ware has 22. Peppers is also much better against the run than either, Ware plays overrated 3-4 outside linebacker and sees multiple 1 on 1 matchups vs running backs and tight ends. Allen is obsessed with sack totals and doesn't care about stopping the run. Although I've read different, I don't believe him seeing how all he does is pin his ears back and rush the QB. Peppers is 10 x the player either one of these guys could ever dream of being.

I almost forgot, Peppers has 8 interceptions, Allen 5, and Ware a wussy 1.

Please bring something stronger to the argument sir.

So, Peppers is a better defensive player then Ware and Allen because of his special teams contributions? Thats weak. You also mention passes knocked down where Peppers has much more then Ware and Allen. Wouldn't that suggest that Peppers may not be as effective getting to the qb as Ware and Allen hense increasing his chances of knocking down passes?

Allen obsessed with sack totals? He is a DE, he is supposed to pressure the qb. Does that mean that he is bad against the run? Not at all. Is he as good as Peppers? Thats debatable, if you want that one, I will give it to you. You can't argue what the previous poster clearly demonstrated in that getting to the qb, Allen and Ware are better then Peppers and by no means overrated.

[natelpete]

You forgot blocked kicks, Peppers has 12, Allen 1, Ware 0. Passes knocked down, Peppers has 57, Allen 43, Ware has 22. Peppers is also much better against the run than either, Ware plays overrated 3-4 outside linebacker and sees multiple 1 on 1 matchups vs running backs and tight ends. Allen is obsessed with sack totals and doesn't care about stopping the run. Although I've read different, I don't believe him seeing how all he does is pin his ears back and rush the QB. Peppers is 10 x the player either one of these guys could ever dream of being.

I almost forgot, Peppers has 8 interceptions, Allen 5, and Ware a wussy 1.

Please bring something stronger to the argument sir.

If peppers is so much better against the run why are his tackles/year so far behind Allen and Ware? Blocked kicks, lol. He's a special teams giant

[subroc]

If peppers is so much better against the run why are his tackles/year so far behind Allen and Ware? Blocked kicks, lol. He's a special teams giant

chuckling

Another stat where Peppers falls short of both Ware and Allen. We are seeing a trend here!

BTW, I believe Peppers is a top player in the league, but both those guys are "better" and all that that entails.

[PredatorPeppers]

Peppers > Allen > Ware

Ware will have more tackles, he is a linbacker and is free to roam and make tackles much more easily than Peppers, Peppers is double teamed more than Allen therefore taking up blockers to allow Briggs and Urlacher to make tackles and plays on the ball. I am baffled to see how Allen is better than Peppers, or Ware for that matter. Need I remind you he is a 3-4 OLB. Ware is a product of the defensive schemes he has played in.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6492434

"Playing defensive end, I have a few more responsibilities," Williams told the Chronicle. "Being an outside linebacker, I'm always on the edge. When the ball's snapped, it's full go after the quarterback."

Phillips compared Williams to Cowboys linebacker DeMarcus Ware, whom he coached for more than three years before Phillips was fired during the 2010 season.

"He's got the talent," Phillips said of Williams. "With him standing up, he lines up a little wider, and he's coming every time on a different angle. This gives him the chance to be the premier rusher, just like DeMarcus."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...at-complicated

"I said, 'You rush,'" Phillips recalls. "He said, 'OK.'"

And it's pretty much going to be that simple. In Phillips' version of the 3-4 defense, there is an outside linebacker whose job is almost exclusively limited to getting after the quarterback from the open side of the formation.

Think the current dominance of DeMarcus Ware in Dallas, where Phillips was head coach until the middle of last season.

Think Shawne Merriman, who flourished and came up with 27 sacks in his first two seasons with the San Diego Chargers while Phillips was defensive coordinator there.

Think Bryce Paup after he left the Green Bay Packers -- for whom he was an end in a 4-3 scheme -- and then compiled 17.5 sacks as linebacker for the Bills in 1995, when Phillips was defensive coordinator.


http://www.bolthype.com/2007/11/dema...-merriman.html

Demarcus Ware:
"I talked to Shawne at the Pro Bowl, and he said, 'You're going to love this system. You're going to move all around, from left to right and into the middle. It will open up the gate for you and other players. We have a lot of great players on our defense, just like San Diego does, and we have been watching a lot of film of those guys. We're excited about the sack totals and big plays we can put up in this system. … Sacks are how we eat. Everybody is really excited that a new coach has come in and has a new philosophy different from our old coach. The philosophy Wade has is a little more aggressive than the one Bill Parcells had. It's what guys on this team like. They like the movement, the aggressiveness of this scheme. They don't have as many responsibilities."

http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.com...kie-year-.html

One of the examples of how Rob Ryan's schemes have impacted the Cowboys defense is Pro Bowl linebacker DeMarcus Ware getting fewer double team blocks than anytime since his rookie year.

As instead of just lining up on the right side and rushing the quarterback, Ryan has Ware attacking the quarterback from the left side, the middle and the right side. Teams have been unable to locate him and slide the protection to his side on a regular basis, resulting in him getting singled blocked a great majority of time.

"I have faced a lot of one on ones," Ware said. "I will be on the left and the cornerback would be on the right, the running back would have to pick him up. It creates a lot of one-on-ones which I like."
Ware has five sacks in four games so far, tying him for fourth in the league.

http://www.scoresreport.com/2009/01/...-a-linebacker/

At one point Peppers did want to play OLB in a 34 defense... he is definitely athletic enough.

Carey said ideally Peppers wants to play in a 3-4 defensive system where he can stand up and roam the field as a hybrid defensive end/outside linebacker, similar to how the Dallas Cowboys use DeMarcus Ware and how the San Diego Chargers have used Shawne Merriman in the past before his injury.

So basically he doesn’t want to have a lot of run responsibility, he just wants to rush the quarterback and compile as many sacks as he possibly can. At 6’7”, 283 pounds, Peppers would easily be the biggest linebacker in the NFL.


If Julius Peppers played in an aggressive defense like that as a jack linebacker like Ware does, Peppers would break the single season sack record. Instead Peppers lines up in a conservative bend but don't break, only rush 4 down lineman, make the quarter back dump the ball off quick so the linebackers can make the play type defense. Making it easier to chip and double team Peppers, as well as quarter backs hitting quick slants and getting rid of the ball quicker not giving Peppers the amount of time needed to rack up huge sack numbers. Peppers is better than Ware, and better than any defensive player in the NFL, if only he played in a scheme that could show case his talents a little bit more.

Regardless of sack totals though, Peppers has more impact for his team than Ware.