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  1. #391
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    Where we stand right now, it looks like it might come down to Sheldon Richardson, Dion Jordan, DaMontre Moore (probably gone by the time we pick), Bjoern Werner (probably gone too) and Sam Montgomery. I think the most realistic is probably Sheldon Richardson, I just don't know who else would be there. Of those guys, I think Moore is my #1, then Werner #2, Jordan is 3, Richardson 4 and Montgomery 5. I'm really scared of those LSU 4-3 DEs. Tyson Jackson, Glenn Dorsey were both huge flops, I just feel like Montgomery is heading that way too
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  2. #392
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    Btw, what happened to Barkevious' stock? It's also dropping too, the guy was a top 10 pick, now the mocks have him around 15-20. Was the stretch at the end of the year that bad for him and Montgomery?
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  3. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by akay47 View Post
    What did Von Miller play in college? 4-3 DE? or 4-3 OLB? I think there's a big difference from being a 3-4 OLB (which is what Jarvis Jones technically is, I've never once saw him put his hands in the dirty) to a 4-3 DE. The transition is easier to go from a 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB IF *big IF* you've got the seize/weight to do it. Von Miller had the ability to do that, he is a 3-4 OLB if I've ever seen one.

    Cam Jordan was a 3-4 DE at Cal, he had to lose a lot of weight to finally be a good 4-3 DE and we know he's got problems at pass rushing. I think moving to a 3-4 might actually benefit us, we could have Cam back at his original spot and Jarvis Jones would then fit with Vilma/Lofton playing inside. Hawthorne on the other side, Will Smith would work better in a 3-4 anyways. Just throwing it out there, either way we probably won't be getting Jarvis Jones.

    Jarvis Jones-Vilma-Lofton-Hawthorne
    Smith-Hicks-Jordan

    That isn't bad at all
    I think Miller played a Rover/Joker-style linebacker (think Derrick Thomas as the best example). I see Jones being the same if we draft him and stick with the 4-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    I'd take Mingo over Jones too guess I'm an idiot too.

  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by akay47 View Post
    What did Von Miller play in college? 4-3 DE? or 4-3 OLB? I think there's a big difference from being a 3-4 OLB (which is what Jarvis Jones technically is, I've never once saw him put his hands in the dirty) to a 4-3 DE. The transition is easier to go from a 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB IF *big IF* you've got the seize/weight to do it. Von Miller had the ability to do that, he is a 3-4 OLB if I've ever seen one.

    Cam Jordan was a 3-4 DE at Cal, he had to lose a lot of weight to finally be a good 4-3 DE and we know he's got problems at pass rushing. I think moving to a 3-4 might actually benefit us, we could have Cam back at his original spot and Jarvis Jones would then fit with Vilma/Lofton playing inside. Hawthorne on the other side, Will Smith would work better in a 3-4 anyways. Just throwing it out there, either way we probably won't be getting Jarvis Jones.

    Jarvis Jones-Vilma-Lofton-Hawthorne
    Smith-Hicks-Jordan

    That isn't bad at all
    I don't think Spags would change his scheme, especially after the success its showing later in this year. He won't draft someone who doesn't fit his scheme.
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  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by akay47 View Post
    What did Von Miller play in college? 4-3 DE? or 4-3 OLB? I think there's a big difference from being a 3-4 OLB (which is what Jarvis Jones technically is, I've never once saw him put his hands in the dirty) to a 4-3 DE. The transition is easier to go from a 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB IF *big IF* you've got the seize/weight to do it. Von Miller had the ability to do that, he is a 3-4 OLB if I've ever seen one.

    Cam Jordan was a 3-4 DE at Cal, he had to lose a lot of weight to finally be a good 4-3 DE and we know he's got problems at pass rushing. I think moving to a 3-4 might actually benefit us, we could have Cam back at his original spot and Jarvis Jones would then fit with Vilma/Lofton playing inside. Hawthorne on the other side, Will Smith would work better in a 3-4 anyways. Just throwing it out there, either way we probably won't be getting Jarvis Jones.

    Jarvis Jones-Vilma-Lofton-Hawthorne
    Smith-Hicks-Jordan


    That isn't bad at all
    I like the direction you are heading in may I expound on this if we were to play those 4 LBs and add Bunkley inside with Hicks replace Hawthorne with Martez then ......................
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  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by saintsfan33 View Post
    I would agree, unless a top OT falls to us we need to get that elite pass rushing DE.
    This is what I think. Though, we could get great value on a strong DT. Sheldon Richardson can stop the run and rush the passer VERY well if you can duck tape his mouth shut The dude talks a big game, but he does have the ability to back it up

    Quote Originally Posted by akay47 View Post
    I think best case scenario is getting a top 10 pick. I seriously wouldn't mind tanking and just cutting all these aged veterans. We need a remake on D, bring in fresh, new players and have a successful draft. That's the #1 key this off-season, try to hit on at like 4-5 players in the draft, we haven't had a good draft since 2006!!! Cmon scout team, you better be doing your job
    I'd argue that 2010 was a pretty good one. 2006 was just unreal. Normal draft years won't match up to that type of standard. You're right about the defense though. We need PLAYMAKERS at any level of the defense, honestly. Along the D-Line would be pretty important

    Quote Originally Posted by MT3279 View Post
    A top 10 pick secures us Matthews or Werner, I'm good with that. I'm very rarely opposed to trading down and netting more draft picks, especially if Matthews and Moore stay at A&M. That would **** the whole draft board up.
    Yeah, if we pick in the top 10, then we're going to get a REALLY good player. No positions would be out of play. Might even see a move slightly up or down depending on the context of the pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by akay47 View Post
    There's no way they're both staying. I wouldn't be surprised if Jake Matthews stays, next year he'll have the ability to play LT and his stock would rise but DeMontre knows it's a weak draft class, he's for sure coming out
    Exactly how I feel about Matthews. He's the most likely to stay, but he could come out just as easily. Joeckel is most likely going to leave and from what I hear, Damontre Moore is a lock to come out.
    Last edited by neovenator250; 12-14-2012 at 03:12 PM.


    Cameron Jordan is awesome

    12.5 sacks and this http://instagram.com/p/jfs5DemKo3/

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT3279 View Post
    There are very few elite players (along with no elite QBs) in this draft. If we could trade down, I'd be happy with filling more needs than just focusing on one or two. The problem with this (Akay has been beating this drum for a good bit now, and I know we, collectively, agree with a lot of what he's been saying) is we HAVE to hit on these picks! We cannot trade down, net extra picks and whiff on all of them.

    I really think we are going to have to do multiple trade-downs in the first to net the picks we need. That means trading down to the late-teens and then trading to the back of the first.

    Food for thought...Mingo is available where we are picking and the Cowboys want him. We get their 1/2 and trade back to the late teens. Pats make the call and offer their 1/2 (I know there's a lot more to it then this...I'm simplifying for ***** and giggles) we go to the back of the 1st. We get two 2's and pick at the back of the first round.

    Pats 1st - Barrett Jones OL/Bama
    Cowboys 2nd - DJ Fluker OT/Bama
    Pats 2nd - Shariff Floyd DT/Florida
    Our 3rd - Brandon Jenkins/Tank Carradine RDE/FSU
    Our 4th - Marcus Davis WR/VaTech (or another comparable WR, Kenny Stills WR/OU or Quinton Patton WR/LaTech)
    Our 5th - Sanders Commings CB/UGA

    That's about the best I can do on short notice. I addressed, imho, the biggest needs, twice (O-Line and D-Line), while getting a WR and CB that I feel can contribute as rookies. I realize this is taking into account a few small miracles and when I drew up the trades I tried to keep in mind that not a lot of teams are known for trading up, so I picked the two biggest dealers in the draft and went forward.

    I took two tackles because of the uncertainty with Bushrod and the decline in Strief. Worse comes to worse, Brown steps up, Fluker plays Tackle and we have Jones to replace De La Fuente. Darn.

    Floyd is insanely underrated at DT, who plays the run and pass well. You could always swap him out for another DT, but he had a nice game against LSU and that's still burning in my brain.

    The FSU guys are both injured and my preferred pick would be Jenkins, but I'd be happy with either in the 3rd round.
    Nice scenario. I like it a lot. You hit on all the needs and get some trade value for sure. You're right about this draft. Its not all about the top. Its about the depth even more than it usually is. As for your draft...Barrett Jones I like a lot. Guys has serious versatility and could play basically every position along the line in a pinch. If we had trouble at a spot, he could definitely cover for us in a few games. He'd be great as a Center for us but I wouldn't bet against this guy getting a shot at a Tackle spot either. Less likely, but this is one of those guys you just don't bet against. I'm not a huge D.J. Fluker fan. He's huge and is an absolute mauler in the run game, but he's got some pass protection issues that need to be answered. Shariff Floyd? Love it. Short version of how I feel on the rest of your picks? Like 'em a lot. This sort of draft would be a big momentum booster, I think. Great job, MT.


    Cameron Jordan is awesome

    12.5 sacks and this http://instagram.com/p/jfs5DemKo3/

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by akay47 View Post
    MT, Neo, you guys would be happy with Sheldon Richardson?
    Quote Originally Posted by MT3279 View Post
    I wouldn't be pissed...but I know there are greater positions of need.
    Quote Originally Posted by saintsfan33 View Post
    this is what I keep saying when I see him mocked to us, I don't get it
    I'd be pretty happy with that pick. I feel like people are underrating Sheldon Richardson right now. I've had the opportunity to go back and watch some more college games now that LSU's semester is over. During Mizzou games, its impossible not to watch this guy. He's a defensive tackle but he's seriously athletic, he plays the run and the pass very well, and he's got a motor like J.J. Watt. Yes that high praise, and I mean it. (I'm not saying he IS J.J. Watt, but they play a similar style and neither one of them takes any plays off. Its good to see in a Defensive lineman. Richardson is growing on me a lot...)

    Quote Originally Posted by MT3279 View Post
    I mean, I see our starters at DT (Bunkley and Hicks) and I'm happy there. We shouldn't be drafting for depth, in the first round, we should be drafting for a starter.

    Now, if we were looking to get rid of Bunkley to cut cap space, then yeah, I could see it, but I still think LT/RDE are more of a dire need (not counting the money saved by letting Bushrod walk and/or cutting Will Smith).

    That all being said, he's a very talented player and I think he could become a difference maker.
    You're right. He's extremely talented. Far and away the best player on Mizzou's roster

    Quote Originally Posted by saintsfan33 View Post
    McShay has us taking Jarvis Jones at 13...WOW
    Quote Originally Posted by MT3279 View Post
    If we get Jarvis Jones I may bust a ****ing nut. No...I'm not ****ing kidding.
    I would flip my **** even harder than when we got Cam Jordan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    Another pass rusher and a OLB all in one. Our very own Von Miller
    Dee Milliner vs J Jones hmmmmmm decisions decisions
    Quote Originally Posted by MT3279 View Post
    Dude, best defensive player in the draft or the best CB?!?! That's not a tough decision!!!
    Yeah, there's no question about this. You HAVE to go with Jarvis Jones. I don't care if Spags has to create a whole new position and run a freaking Joker out there
    Last edited by neovenator250; 12-14-2012 at 03:11 PM.


    Cameron Jordan is awesome

    12.5 sacks and this http://instagram.com/p/jfs5DemKo3/

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by akay47 View Post
    What did Von Miller play in college? 4-3 DE? or 4-3 OLB? I think there's a big difference from being a 3-4 OLB (which is what Jarvis Jones technically is, I've never once saw him put his hands in the dirty) to a 4-3 DE. The transition is easier to go from a 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB IF *big IF* you've got the seize/weight to do it. Von Miller had the ability to do that, he is a 3-4 OLB if I've ever seen one.
    Quote Originally Posted by MT3279 View Post
    I think Miller played a Rover/Joker-style linebacker (think Derrick Thomas as the best example). I see Jones being the same if we draft him and stick with the 4-3.
    MT nailed it. Thats exactly what he did at A&M


    Cameron Jordan is awesome

    12.5 sacks and this http://instagram.com/p/jfs5DemKo3/

  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by akay47 View Post
    Where we stand right now, it looks like it might come down to Sheldon Richardson, Dion Jordan, DaMontre Moore (probably gone by the time we pick), Bjoern Werner (probably gone too) and Sam Montgomery. I think the most realistic is probably Sheldon Richardson, I just don't know who else would be there. Of those guys, I think Moore is my #1, then Werner #2, Jordan is 3, Richardson 4 and Montgomery 5. I'm really scared of those LSU 4-3 DEs. Tyson Jackson, Glenn Dorsey were both huge flops, I just feel like Montgomery is heading that way too
    After watching more tape, I'm pretty high on Sheldon Richardson, honestly.

    Quote Originally Posted by akay47 View Post
    Btw, what happened to Barkevious' stock? It's also dropping too, the guy was a top 10 pick, now the mocks have him around 15-20. Was the stretch at the end of the year that bad for him and Montgomery?
    More like the whole year. At some point, that athleticism he's got has to turn into stats and it never really did

    Quote Originally Posted by akay47 View Post
    Guys, I love Jarvis Jones but he does not fit in our system unless we go 3-4. Where would he play in a 4-3? He has a hard time dropping back and covering, which is what would be asked of him as a OLB in a 4-3. I think he's a great talent and the best pure pass rusher in the draft/best player in the draft but do you guys think he'd fit Spags 4-3? Just curious.
    Others have said it. I'll say it here. Von Miller position

    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    I like the direction you are heading in may I expound on this if we were to play those 4 LBs and add Bunkley inside with Hicks replace Hawthorne with Martez then ......................
    I saw where this was going as soon as akay had 4 LB's in his post. I just knew you'd be right there with the next post,


    Cameron Jordan is awesome

    12.5 sacks and this http://instagram.com/p/jfs5DemKo3/

  11. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by neovenator250 View Post
    I'd be pretty happy with that pick. I feel like people are underrating Sheldon Richardson right now. I've had the opportunity to go back and watch some more college games now that LSU's semester is over. During Mizzou games, its impossible not to watch this guy. He's a defensive tackle but he's seriously athletic, he plays the run and the pass very well, and he's got a motor like J.J. Watt. Yes that high praise, and I mean it. (I'm not saying he IS J.J. Watt, but they play a similar style and neither one of them takes any plays off. Its good to see in a Defensive lineman. Richardson is growing on me a lot...)



    You're right. He's extremely talented. Far and away the best player on Mizzou's roster





    I would flip my **** even harder than when we got Cam Jordan.





    Yeah, there's no question about this. You HAVE to go with Jarvis Jones. I don't care if Spags has to create a whole new position and run a freaking Joker out there
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  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by neovenator250 View Post
    After watching more tape, I'm pretty high on Sheldon Richardson, honestly.



    More like the whole year. At some point, that athleticism he's got has to turn into stats and it never really did



    Others have said it. I'll say it here. Von Miller position



    I saw where this was going as soon as akay had 4 LB's in his post. I just knew you'd be right there with the next post,
    I'm a fan of the LBs what can I say. I think its the most talented and versatile defensive position in the NFL. And for years I've coveted a stud group of LBs. I'm so jealous of 49ers
    LET'S ROLL SAINTS!!!

  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by neovenator250 View Post
    Others have said it. I'll say it here. Von Miller position
    Ya, but the Broncos don't run a 4-3? Do they? I don't know where Jarvis Jones would play in our system. I don't even know where Von Miller would play in our system. Von Miller position is the "rush linebacker" position in a 3-4, same as Aldon Smith, Anthony Spencer and DeMarcus Ware, right? Where would those guys fit in a 4-3? Maybe Aldon Smith can be a 4-3 end, but I don't know where Jarvis Jones, Von Millers types fit in a 4-3. Either my brain is fried right now because of how late it is or maybe final exams, but I'm confused as ****!!! Haha someone explain
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  14. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by akay47 View Post
    Ya, but the Broncos don't run a 4-3? Do they? I don't know where Jarvis Jones would play in our system. I don't even know where Von Miller would play in our system. Von Miller position is the "rush linebacker" position in a 3-4, same as Aldon Smith, Anthony Spencer and DeMarcus Ware, right? Where would those guys fit in a 4-3? Maybe Aldon Smith can be a 4-3 end, but I don't know where Jarvis Jones, Von Millers types fit in a 4-3. Either my brain is fried right now because of how late it is or maybe final exams, but I'm confused as ****!!! Haha someone explain
    Broncos run a 4-3, bro. And Von Miller is their strongside linebacker. Jones would do that for us


    Cameron Jordan is awesome

    12.5 sacks and this http://instagram.com/p/jfs5DemKo3/

  15. #405
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    Now that we know we'll probably be in the 12-17 range, who are your top targets? There are a ton of DEs in this draft who I would be happy with, not many OTs though
    "I am and always will be- The Optimist. The hoper of far-flung hopes. The dreamer of improbable dreams."

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