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  1. #361
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    I hope we pull a New England move and trade back we need more picks....Not unless we lose out and get a top 10 pick. Right now we sit at 9-12 pick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRM10 View Post
    I hope we pull a New England move and trade back we need more picks....Not unless we lose out and get a top 10 pick. Right now we sit at 9-12 pick.
    MAybe in a draft like this thats the answer cause really how many guys in the draft reaaaaally got us saying if we get him we will be set? Maybe its one of those drafts where the superstars come unexpectedly.
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  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    Or the best CB in the country Dee Milliner. Is he Deon or Woodson hell he aint Peterson or Claiborne but he is the best CB in this draft I think. And I think he can be successful immediately at the NFL level.

    I'll offer this just as food for thought and its somewhat interesting to me but there is a difference I think and that is Drew Brees.

    Rookie DB vs Rookie OT

    Rookie DB vs NFL WR

    Rookie LT vs NFL best pass rusher

    Rookie DB vs NFL best WR not likely going to happen.

    LT is LT you will face a damn good DE.

    Brees needs to be protected he is where all our investment is if the LT is not ready gets Brees off his game or hurt we are screwed.

    If a Rookie CB isnt ready he gives up a touchdown but if Brees is throwing TDs like hot cakes then the opposing Offense has to do the same and it makes our front 4 job easier because the run threat is lessened.

    If the front is solid and the back then the QB has to hold the ball or turn it over.

    I think for the most part it suffices to say that even with the line the way it is Brees can put up about 28 points. With a better D is that enough to beat most teams? I think so.

    Conversely if the Rookie LT is a beast then Brees throws TDs anyway and maybe we score 30 to 40 on a regular basis but it forces the opposition to throw more. Yes makes them one dimensional for front 4 to exploit but it also forces secondary to defend more passes.

    Is our pass rush gonna be effective enough to disrupt passes so that secondary is helped?

    So that brings into question the value of DE again. So now I think Dline and DE currently on roster vs our DBs which is better and thus which do we reinforce.

    Greer PRob Mack White JPatrick Jenkins Harper Quudus
    vs
    Wilson Galette Smith Hicks Ellis Jordan Mcbride Bunkley

    Which group needs more help

    On a larger scale our current Offense vs Defense which needs more help but also which is more likely to help us win and impact now

    Then couple all this with the players in the draft

    I think when we consider all these things we go
    I think the question you have to ask yourself is can our D play with a lead. As of now, I think that is possible. When Jordan, Gallette, Wilson and Bunkley/Hicks are making up the front 4, I like our pass rush. I think the other thing we aren't discussing is how well a good LT will help our running game. Bushrod has never been a mauler...he's a decent Tackle, and I think he's a good guy, but he's not a stud.

    I want a Tackle that thinks a pancake isn't a breakfast food, but a way of life.

    Milliner, in my most humble opinion, is a poor man's Charles Woodson. A CB that can cover, tackle and blitz. Good in man, decent in zone. I love the guy, but I also know there are two positions of greater need and I really...REALLY...think those two positions (LT/RDE) need to be addressed in the first round, if we stay at our current position and don't trade down.

    Quote Originally Posted by PRM10 View Post
    I hope we pull a New England move and trade back we need more picks....Not unless we lose out and get a top 10 pick. Right now we sit at 9-12 pick.
    We have a lot of needs to fill and not many picks to fill them. I agree, if the price is right...and as long as we don't trade with NE. I always feel like we lose the deal when we trade with that ****er, Bill. (See Ellis)

    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    MAybe in a draft like this thats the answer cause really how many guys in the draft reaaaaally got us saying if we get him we will be set? Maybe its one of those drafts where the superstars come unexpectedly.
    There are very few elite players (along with no elite QBs) in this draft. If we could trade down, I'd be happy with filling more needs than just focusing on one or two. The problem with this (Akay has been beating this drum for a good bit now, and I know we, collectively, agree with a lot of what he's been saying) is we HAVE to hit on these picks! We cannot trade down, net extra picks and whiff on all of them.

    I really think we are going to have to do multiple trade-downs in the first to net the picks we need. That means trading down to the late-teens and then trading to the back of the first.

    Food for thought...Mingo is available where we are picking and the Cowboys want him. We get their 1/2 and trade back to the late teens. Pats make the call and offer their 1/2 (I know there's a lot more to it then this...I'm simplifying for ***** and giggles) we go to the back of the 1st. We get two 2's and pick at the back of the first round.

    Pats 1st - Barrett Jones OL/Bama
    Cowboys 2nd - DJ Fluker OT/Bama
    Pats 2nd - Shariff Floyd DT/Florida
    Our 3rd - Brandon Jenkins/Tank Carradine RDE/FSU
    Our 4th - Marcus Davis WR/VaTech (or another comparable WR, Kenny Stills WR/OU or Quinton Patton WR/LaTech)
    Our 5th - Sanders Commings CB/UGA

    That's about the best I can do on short notice. I addressed, imho, the biggest needs, twice (O-Line and D-Line), while getting a WR and CB that I feel can contribute as rookies. I realize this is taking into account a few small miracles and when I drew up the trades I tried to keep in mind that not a lot of teams are known for trading up, so I picked the two biggest dealers in the draft and went forward.

    I took two tackles because of the uncertainty with Bushrod and the decline in Strief. Worse comes to worse, Brown steps up, Fluker plays Tackle and we have Jones to replace De La Fuente. Darn.

    Floyd is insanely underrated at DT, who plays the run and pass well. You could always swap him out for another DT, but he had a nice game against LSU and that's still burning in my brain.

    The FSU guys are both injured and my preferred pick would be Jenkins, but I'd be happy with either in the 3rd round.
    Last edited by MT3279; 12-10-2012 at 07:03 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    I'd take Mingo over Jones too guess I'm an idiot too.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT3279 View Post
    I think the question you have to ask yourself is can our D play with a lead. As of now, I think that is possible. When Jordan, Gallette, Wilson and Bunkley/Hicks are making up the front 4, I like our pass rush. I think the other thing we aren't discussing is how well a good LT will help our running game. Bushrod has never been a mauler...he's a decent Tackle, and I think he's a good guy, but he's not a stud.

    I want a Tackle that thinks a pancake isn't a breakfast food, but a way of life.

    Milliner, in my most humble opinion, is a poor man's Charles Woodson. A CB that can cover, tackle and blitz. Good in man, decent in zone. I love the guy, but I also know there are two positions of greater need and I really...REALLY...think those two positions (LT/RDE) need to be addressed in the first round, if we stay at our current position and don't trade down.



    We have a lot of needs to fill and not many picks to fill them. I agree, if the price is right...and as long as we don't trade with NE. I always feel like we lose the deal when we trade with that ****er, Bill. (See Ellis)



    There are very few elite players (along with no elite QBs) in this draft. If we could trade down, I'd be happy with filling more needs than just focusing on one or two. The problem with this (Akay has been beating this drum for a good bit now, and I know we, collectively, agree with a lot of what he's been saying) is we HAVE to hit on these picks! We cannot trade down, net extra picks and whiff on all of them.

    I really think we are going to have to do multiple trade-downs in the first to net the picks we need. That means trading down to the late-teens and then trading to the back of the first.

    Food for thought...Mingo is available where we are picking and the Cowboys want him. We get their 1/2 and trade back to the late teens. Pats make the call and offer their 1/2 (I know there's a lot more to it then this...I'm simplifying for ***** and giggles) we go to the back of the 1st. We get two 2's and pick at the back of the first round.

    Pats 1st - Barrett Jones OL/Bama
    Cowboys 2nd - DJ Fluker OT/Bama
    Pats 2nd - Shariff Floyd DT/Florida
    Our 3rd - Brandon Jenkins/Tank Carradine RDE/FSU
    Our 4th - Marcus Davis WR/VaTech (or another comparable WR, Kenny Stills WR/OU or Quinton Patton WR/LaTech)
    Our 5th - Sanders Commings CB/UGA


    That's about the best I can do on short notice. I addressed, imho, the biggest needs, twice (O-Line and D-Line), while getting a WR and CB that I feel can contribute as rookies. I realize this is taking into account a few small miracles and when I drew up the trades I tried to keep in mind that not a lot of teams are known for trading up, so I picked the two biggest dealers in the draft and went forward.

    I took two tackles because of the uncertainty with Bushrod and the decline in Strief. Worse comes to worse, Brown steps up, Fluker plays Tackle and we have Jones to replace De La Fuente. Darn.

    Floyd is insanely underrated at DT, who plays the run and pass well. You could always swap him out for another DT, but he had a nice game against LSU and that's still burning in my brain.

    The FSU guys are both injured and my preferred pick would be Jenkins, but I'd be happy with either in the 3rd round.
    Great points here. I would love the scenario you point out the positions and the players drafted that would be a A- draft imo.
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  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT3279 View Post
    I think the question you have to ask yourself is can our D play with a lead. As of now, I think that is possible. When Jordan, Gallette, Wilson and Bunkley/Hicks are making up the front 4, I like our pass rush. I think the other thing we aren't discussing is how well a good LT will help our running game. Bushrod has never been a mauler...he's a decent Tackle, and I think he's a good guy, but he's not a stud.

    I want a Tackle that thinks a pancake isn't a breakfast food, but a way of life.

    Milliner, in my most humble opinion, is a poor man's Charles Woodson. A CB that can cover, tackle and blitz. Good in man, decent in zone. I love the guy, but I also know there are two positions of greater need and I really...REALLY...think those two positions (LT/RDE) need to be addressed in the first round, if we stay at our current position and don't trade down.



    We have a lot of needs to fill and not many picks to fill them. I agree, if the price is right...and as long as we don't trade with NE. I always feel like we lose the deal when we trade with that ****er, Bill. (See Ellis)



    There are very few elite players (along with no elite QBs) in this draft. If we could trade down, I'd be happy with filling more needs than just focusing on one or two. The problem with this (Akay has been beating this drum for a good bit now, and I know we, collectively, agree with a lot of what he's been saying) is we HAVE to hit on these picks! We cannot trade down, net extra picks and whiff on all of them.

    I really think we are going to have to do multiple trade-downs in the first to net the picks we need. That means trading down to the late-teens and then trading to the back of the first.

    Food for thought...Mingo is available where we are picking and the Cowboys want him. We get their 1/2 and trade back to the late teens. Pats make the call and offer their 1/2 (I know there's a lot more to it then this...I'm simplifying for ***** and giggles) we go to the back of the 1st. We get two 2's and pick at the back of the first round.

    Pats 1st - Barrett Jones OL/Bama
    Cowboys 2nd - DJ Fluker OT/Bama
    Pats 2nd - Shariff Floyd DT/Florida
    Our 3rd - Brandon Jenkins/Tank Carradine RDE/FSU
    Our 4th - Marcus Davis WR/VaTech (or another comparable WR, Kenny Stills WR/OU or Quinton Patton WR/LaTech)
    Our 5th - Sanders Commings CB/UGA

    That's about the best I can do on short notice. I addressed, imho, the biggest needs, twice (O-Line and D-Line), while getting a WR and CB that I feel can contribute as rookies. I realize this is taking into account a few small miracles and when I drew up the trades I tried to keep in mind that not a lot of teams are known for trading up, so I picked the two biggest dealers in the draft and went forward.

    I took two tackles because of the uncertainty with Bushrod and the decline in Strief. Worse comes to worse, Brown steps up, Fluker plays Tackle and we have Jones to replace De La Fuente. Darn.

    Floyd is insanely underrated at DT, who plays the run and pass well. You could always swap him out for another DT, but he had a nice game against LSU and that's still burning in my brain.

    The FSU guys are both injured and my preferred pick would be Jenkins, but I'd be happy with either in the 3rd round.
    1) Amazing line. Did you come up with that all on your own? Well done hahaha.

    2) I'm thinking of making a thread and pointing out on all our hits & misses during the drafts since Payton's been our coach, should be an interesting debate/thread to talk about.

    I love Brandon Jenkins, I think he could be a steal in the 3rd. He's probably going to be a 2nd rounder, have a great combine. Not a Dontari Poe combine, but one that shows he's legit.

    Regardless, OT is our biggest need, that's where you start building your team and whether you like it or not (I might be a little bit of an extremist here) but I almost feel like we need to blow up some of the team. Some of it is still solid (RB, TE, QB, MLB) but a little of it needs work. We need a young WR, a playmaker on both sides of the ball. Colston/Henderson/Moore/Morgan/Toon are all mediocre guys, they're not difference makers. We don't have the Julio Jones or the Calvin Johnson. Jimmy's a great TE, arguably the best but he's not being used the right way now. He's chipping way too much, getting doubled and Drew's forcing the ball to him (two of his INTs vs the Giants were Jimmy Graham targets). I think the org. is a mess right now, they're praying Payton comes back and if he doesn't, I think Benson's got to fire everyone, the whole staff. Keep Loomis, but Vitt/Kromer/Carmichael/Spagnuolo/Bill Johnson should get the axe. LITERALLY EVERYONE. If we simply promote one of the assistants, it just won't work, it won't be the same. I might be rational but I think that if Payton doesn't come back, we have to bring in a fresh new group of coaches.
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  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by akay47 View Post
    1) Amazing line. Did you come up with that all on your own? Well done hahaha.

    2) I'm thinking of making a thread and pointing out on all our hits & misses during the drafts since Payton's been our coach, should be an interesting debate/thread to talk about.

    I love Brandon Jenkins, I think he could be a steal in the 3rd. He's probably going to be a 2nd rounder, have a great combine. Not a Dontari Poe combine, but one that shows he's legit.

    Regardless, OT is our biggest need, that's where you start building your team and whether you like it or not (I might be a little bit of an extremist here) but I almost feel like we need to blow up some of the team. Some of it is still solid (RB, TE, QB, MLB) but a little of it needs work. We need a young WR, a playmaker on both sides of the ball. Colston/Henderson/Moore/Morgan/Toon are all mediocre guys, they're not difference makers. We don't have the Julio Jones or the Calvin Johnson. Jimmy's a great TE, arguably the best but he's not being used the right way now. He's chipping way too much, getting doubled and Drew's forcing the ball to him (two of his INTs vs the Giants were Jimmy Graham targets). I think the org. is a mess right now, they're praying Payton comes back and if he doesn't, I think Benson's got to fire everyone, the whole staff. Keep Loomis, but Vitt/Kromer/Carmichael/Spagnuolo/Bill Johnson should get the axe. LITERALLY EVERYONE. If we simply promote one of the assistants, it just won't work, it won't be the same. I might be rational but I think that if Payton doesn't come back, we have to bring in a fresh new group of coaches.
    Yes sir, that's all me.

    You should make that thread, I love taking draft stuff, past, present and future.

    That's why I said him or Tank, also keep in mind that our pick is going to be higher up in the 3rd round than the mocks have us at.

    The O-Line picks are part of the blowing up process. Bushrod and Strief aren't cutting it, they gotta go. They cost too much to be mediocre. What better place to draft an O-line from than that insane Bama line?

    Floyd and the FSU guy ( ) are also part of the process. The sooner we bring in their replacements, the sooner we can afford to lose Smith and Ellis. Hicks will be replacing Bunkley sooner or later.

    Notice how much money has already been cut? It's absurd.

    I'm not sure what Vilma's deal is, anymore....not sure how cheap he is. I know Shanle and Herring are gone. I want to keep Harper, I really do, but I think his contract is about to hit the 6-7Mil a year, mark, and that's a lot of money for a Safety.

    Robinson and Jenkins are on rookie deals, can't get much cheaper than that. I wouldn't re-sign Jenkins, but I would re-sign Robinson.

    Greer just extended his deal, not sure if we can let him go without incurring a severe cap hit.

    Henderson is done. I'm not sure what I'd do with Sproles after the end of the season, but I'll say this now, Cadet isn't the answer.

    I'm not going to panic about Payton, yet. But the longer this drags out, the more the organization is going to freak. The moment all this ******** with the league is worked out, we need to make him the highest paid HC, by a nice chunk of change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    I'd take Mingo over Jones too guess I'm an idiot too.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT3279 View Post
    Yes sir, that's all me.

    You should make that thread, I love taking draft stuff, past, present and future.

    That's why I said him or Tank, also keep in mind that our pick is going to be higher up in the 3rd round than the mocks have us at.

    The O-Line picks are part of the blowing up process. Bushrod and Strief aren't cutting it, they gotta go. They cost too much to be mediocre. What better place to draft an O-line from than that insane Bama line?

    Floyd and the FSU guy ( ) are also part of the process. The sooner we bring in their replacements, the sooner we can afford to lose Smith and Ellis. Hicks will be replacing Bunkley sooner or later.

    Notice how much money has already been cut? It's absurd.

    I'm not sure what Vilma's deal is, anymore....not sure how cheap he is. I know Shanle and Herring are gone. I want to keep Harper, I really do, but I think his contract is about to hit the 6-7Mil a year, mark, and that's a lot of money for a Safety.

    Robinson and Jenkins are on rookie deals, can't get much cheaper than that. I wouldn't re-sign Jenkins, but I would re-sign Robinson.

    Greer just extended his deal, not sure if we can let him go without incurring a severe cap hit.

    Henderson is done. I'm not sure what I'd do with Sproles after the end of the season, but I'll say this now, Cadet isn't the answer.

    I'm not going to panic about Payton, yet. But the longer this drags out, the more the organization is going to freak. The moment all this ******** with the league is worked out, we need to make him the highest paid HC, by a nice chunk of change.
    I just made the thread, go check it out. Some pretty remarkable stuff
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  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRM10 View Post
    I hope we pull a New England move and trade back we need more picks....Not unless we lose out and get a top 10 pick. Right now we sit at 9-12 pick.
    I agree unless their is a dominant pass rusher available. I would love to trade down and get Sam Montgomery, his stock seems to be slipping.
    "I am and always will be- The Optimist. The hoper of far-flung hopes. The dreamer of improbable dreams."

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    MT, Neo, you guys would be happy with Sheldon Richardson?
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    Quote Originally Posted by akay47 View Post
    MT, Neo, you guys would be happy with Sheldon Richardson?
    I wouldn't be pissed...but I know there are greater positions of need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    I'd take Mingo over Jones too guess I'm an idiot too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MT3279 View Post
    I wouldn't be pissed...but I know there are greater positions of need.
    this is what I keep saying when I see him mocked to us, I don't get it
    "I am and always will be- The Optimist. The hoper of far-flung hopes. The dreamer of improbable dreams."

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintsfan33 View Post
    this is what I keep saying when I see him mocked to us, I don't get it
    I mean, I see our starters at DT (Bunkley and Hicks) and I'm happy there. We shouldn't be drafting for depth, in the first round, we should be drafting for a starter.

    Now, if we were looking to get rid of Bunkley to cut cap space, then yeah, I could see it, but I still think LT/RDE are more of a dire need (not counting the money saved by letting Bushrod walk and/or cutting Will Smith).

    That all being said, he's a very talented player and I think he could become a difference maker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    I'd take Mingo over Jones too guess I'm an idiot too.

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    McShay has us taking Jarvis Jones at 13...WOW
    "I am and always will be- The Optimist. The hoper of far-flung hopes. The dreamer of improbable dreams."

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintsfan33 View Post
    McShay has us taking Jarvis Jones at 13...WOW
    If we get Jarvis Jones I may bust a ****ing nut. No...I'm not ****ing kidding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    I'd take Mingo over Jones too guess I'm an idiot too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintsfan33 View Post
    McShay has us taking Jarvis Jones at 13...WOW
    Another pass rusher and a OLB all in one. Our very own Von Miller
    Dee Milliner vs J Jones hmmmmmm decisions decisions
    Last edited by Underdogz∞; 12-12-2012 at 10:19 PM.
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