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  1. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly Gruber View Post
    I don't know exactly how the value would break down and who would have to add what, but here is an idea, based on the Rangers adding a starter or two...

    I'm not one for proposals much, but what about something like this:

    Toronto:
    CF Leonys Martin
    SP Derek Holland

    Texas:
    CF Colby Rasmus
    C JP Arencibia

    Martin is speedy and has crushed AAA pitching. Already had a cup of coffee with the Rangers. Was pretty highly touted when signed. Also a LH as well, so we don't lose that flexibility when trading Rasmus. Martin is also an above average defender and athlete and he projects as a lead-off hitter. This is important as to me, Reyes is better suited as a 2 or even 3 hitter.

    We know what we'd be getting in Holland. He's just 26 and has a high ceiling to go along with a hard sinker. He'd slot right in as a pretty damn good 5th starter with room to grow. His splits are terrible because he's still learning how to pitch to RHB at this level. Needs to mix it up more, he could be dominant with the right pitching coach. Has a good arm and is wasn't long ago that he was rated in the top half of most anyone's top 100 prospects.
    That deal seems pretty fair but I'd rather hold on to both and just sign a Marcum or E.Jackson.

    I'm just not that crazy about Holland plus Rasmus and JPA could both boost their value a decent amount, trading them right now could be selling low or both could be solid pieces moving forward if they get it together

    If I'm trading for a pitcher it should be an 1-2 type guy other than that I'd much rather take the FA route. Now if a good young 2nd base or even 1st becomes available I'd like to use JPA or Rasmus or both on him.

  2. #932
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    I would rather go into this season with Colby and JP, rather than wonder if Gose and TDA are going to work out.

  3. #933
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    I picked up something in AA's comment during the PC.

    When asked about someone...he said..."Right NOW...there are our starting player". He said the same phrase when asked about JF a few weeks back. Right NOW...JF is our manager.

    Let's see.

    I'll listen for that when he talks next time.
    Hey! It'S JoeyBatS

  4. #934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkefied View Post
    I would rather go into this season with Colby and JP, rather than wonder if Gose and TDA are going to work out.
    d'Arnuad has been a better player offensively and defensively throughout their minor league careers. At worse, if d'Arnuad tops out at JPA's offensive (i personally think he will be superior), his defense will make him instantly a better catcher. The same really cant be said for Gose though

  5. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    I'd consider something like D'Arnaud and Rasmus for Hosmer, but I doubt Kansas City is willing to listen to deals for Hosmer, even after his rough year this year.
    You're not serious?

    Edit: I should note that I do believe Hosmer is going to be a beast. Still, there's no way I'd trade d'Arnaud for him. Even though I do expect him to breakout, he (Hosmer) still only has a 0.5 WAR over 280 games. Even his 2011 season only adjusted to a 2 WAR season over 162 games.

    I'd certainly be thrilled if the Jays found a way to acquire him, but it has to be within reason. I certainly wouldn't trade one of the top prospects in the major leagues (the top catching prospect) for someone who, despite having immense talent/breakout potential, has yet to perform at an adequate level in the major leagues.
    Last edited by 13Lawrie13; 11-21-2012 at 05:42 PM.

  6. #936
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    Like the idea of a young guy like Hosmer. With him and Lawrie on the hot corners along with TDA and even Gose for years to come, after some of our older players contracts are up and we need to do some re-loading . Having these 3 or 4 young guys hit there prime years as we re-tool with some new players and pitchers seems to make some sence to keep the team contending for more than the next few years. JMHO
    Last edited by wagnall; 11-21-2012 at 06:28 PM.

  7. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13Lawrie13 View Post
    You're not serious?

    Edit: I should note that I do believe Hosmer is going to be a beast. Still, there's no way I'd trade d'Arnaud for him. Even though I do expect him to breakout, he (Hosmer) still only has a 0.5 WAR over 280 games. Even his 2011 season only adjusted to a 2 WAR season over 162 games.

    I'd certainly be thrilled if the Jays found a way to acquire him, but it has to be within reason. I certainly wouldn't trade one of the top prospects in the major leagues (the top catching prospect) for someone who, despite having immense talent/breakout potential, has yet to perform at an adequate level in the major leagues.
    Less than 2 years ago you would also consider Hosmer "one of the top prospects in the major leagues (the top 1b prospect)."

    This year you can also claim that D'Arnaud, "despite having immense talent/breakout potential, has yet to perform at an adequate level in the major leagues."

    It is probably a moot argument though. KC still has Perez as their future catcher. A 3 way trade could perhaps make some sense, but I gather you aren't interested in the idea.

    I'm not sure how these statements support your point because they are in fact quite good statements to use in the context of both of these guys.

  8. #938
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Less than 2 years ago you would also consider Hosmer "one of the top prospects in the major leagues (the top 1b prospect)."

    This year you can also claim that D'Arnaud, "despite having immense talent/breakout potential, has yet to perform at an adequate level in the major leagues."

    It is probably a moot argument though. KC still has Perez as their future catcher. A 3 way trade could perhaps make some sense, but I gather you aren't interested in the idea.

    I'm not sure how these statements support your point because they are in fact quite good statements to use in the context of both of these guys.
    The difference being that d'Arnaud hasn't had a chance to show he can perform at the major league level.

    You're treating Hosmer like he has the same value now, as he did when he was a top prospect. I highly doubt that's the case.

  9. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13Lawrie13 View Post
    The difference being that d'Arnaud hasn't had a chance to show he can perform at the major league level.

    You're treating Hosmer like he has the same value now, as he did when he was a top prospect. I highly doubt that's the case.
    I have a general assumption that most young players will struggle in their first year or two in the majors. There are always players that flourish right away but I don't consider that the norm. I just see Hosmer's second year as a sophomore slump. I actually don't think his value has diminished much at all, but who really knows.

    The other thought I had around the idea was a 4 team swap.

    Rangers gets D'Arnaud
    Royals get Bauer
    DBacks get Andrus
    Jays get Hosmer

    Other pieces could be involved, but those were the centerpieces.

    Rangers are looking for a catcher and have Profar coming up to replace Andrus.
    Royals are looking for pitching and DBacks have reportedly been fielding offers for Bauer.
    DBacks were looking for a SS as a main piece for Upton and get Andrus.
    Jays decide on their catcher and get a young, big lefty bat to play first base for the long-term.

  10. #940
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    ^^That's...actually really well thought out. Rangers' return seems a bit light, but for the most part it would actually make a lot of sense for all four teams.
    2013

  11. #941
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    ^ Actually I would prefer Billy Butler or Alex Gordon in that deal.

  12. #942
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanyo View Post
    ^ Actually I would prefer Billy Butler or Alex Gordon in that deal.
    Hmm.. well, they are both definitely more proven, but I still really like Hosmer and think he'll blossom into a stud. I'd make that trade if I'm the Jays, if Hosmer is coming the other way.

    That said, you're right in that Gordon/Butler would both be really nice gets. I'd honestly be happy with any of them.


    Had to be done! Go T-Rex

  13. #943
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    Hosmer all the way.

  14. #944
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    I don't get why Hosmer value would be so high but yet another top prospect in Rasmus who has been as good or better than Hosmer is so low.
    Last edited by LanceUpperCut; 11-21-2012 at 11:18 PM.

  15. #945
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    I see D'Arnaud value as high just about any other prospect considering his position is much harder to fill then any other.

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