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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyen View Post
    Cups half empty there...isn't it?

    Lee's yet to have a bad season in 5 years. I suggest you look at Ruf's stat's.
    Bloated stats...Ruf quite old for AA this year. First year he's shown any power. Sounds like fringe player to me.

    Lee be 35 next season and was 6-9 this year. Not worth our closer, top 2 prospects and locked to 25 million a year for 5 years.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by GNick View Post
    Bloated stats...Ruf quite old for AA this year. First year he's shown any power. Sounds like fringe player to me.

    Lee be 35 next season and was 6-9 this year. Not worth our closer, top 2 prospects and locked to 25 million a year for 5 years.
    Difference of opinion ...that's cool.

    However, his birthday is Aug30th so 35 at the end of next season. 3 years left on the contract. 4th year has $12.5M Buyout...option becomes guaranteed with 200 IP in 2015 or 400 IP in 2014-15. So if you get to 4 years you'll get decent value.

    Honestly...I don't think I've looked at the players W/L record in 2 years. Too busy looking at 211 inns, 207 so, 3.16era, 1.11 whip etc

    There's like 7 Ace's in baseball...not sure how much more you want it gifted wrapped than that.

    If Ruf was 2 years younger he's be the #1 prospect in the game. I'd be happy if he was 29. The ball doesn't care how old you are when you hit it out of the park.
    Hey! It'S JoeyBatS

  3. #168
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    Is CJ Cron and his 27hrs and .843OPS not blocked by Pujols? Hmmm.
    Hey! It'S JoeyBatS

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyen View Post
    Difference of opinion ...that's cool.

    However, his birthday is Aug30th so 35 at the end of next season. 3 years left on the contract. 4th year has $12.5M Buyout...option becomes guaranteed with 200 IP in 2015 or 400 IP in 2014-15. So if you get to 4 years you'll get decent value.

    Honestly...I don't think I've looked at the players W/L record in 2 years. Too busy looking at 211 inns, 207 so, 3.16era, 1.11 whip etc

    There's like 7 Ace's in baseball...not sure how much more you want it gifted wrapped than that.

    If Ruf was 2 years younger he's be the #1 prospect in the game. I'd be happy if he was 29. The ball doesn't care how old you are when you hit it out of the park.
    I would offer Rasmus for Lee. But I wouldn't strip the farm for him. Rasmus is young centerfield which they need. Lee wasn't much for Philly this year...He's 35 numbers have started to decline. Not wise investment. We have first closer in 5 years, just open up another hole. Sanchez is future ace, Norris has great arm. Too much risk. 25 million will bring couple of top players and keep our closer and top prospects.

    Ruf 26 in Double A false numbers because he's playing against much younger players. Seen it happened many times before. There's the odd late bloomer but it exception rather than the rule.
    Last edited by GNick; 10-08-2012 at 05:31 AM.

  5. #170
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    Yeah age doesn't matter. That's why Brian Dopirak is the Jays' franchise first baseman. Oh wait...
    2013

  6. #171
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    Daniel Norris looks as overrated as Keith Law says he was

  7. #172
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    AA prefers the pitchers and outfielders, guys with athleticism in the draft. Its a good strategy as often these are the type of players teams pay a premium for.

    Most power 1st basemen flame out when they hit the Majors -- cant make the adjustments and strike out a billion times. The odd ones can make it through. The best power 1st basemen are guys like Todd Helton, Pujols, Konerko, etc cause those guys are very disciplined at the plate and play exceptional well at 1st base. Any beefhead can swat 30 home runs in the minors where 80% of pitchers cant even throw an average fastball -- once they hit the majors most of them flame out.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyen View Post
    Difference of opinion ...that's cool.

    However, his birthday is Aug30th so 35 at the end of next season. 3 years left on the contract. 4th year has $12.5M Buyout...option becomes guaranteed with 200 IP in 2015 or 400 IP in 2014-15. So if you get to 4 years you'll get decent value.

    Honestly...I don't think I've looked at the players W/L record in 2 years. Too busy looking at 211 inns, 207 so, 3.16era, 1.11 whip etc

    There's like 7 Ace's in baseball...not sure how much more you want it gifted wrapped than that.

    If Ruf was 2 years younger he's be the #1 prospect in the game. I'd be happy if he was 29. The ball doesn't care how old you are when you hit it out of the park.
    No, but the ball does care if your extremely overqualified over the competition your playing against.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyen View Post
    Difference of opinion ...that's cool.

    However, his birthday is Aug30th so 35 at the end of next season. 3 years left on the contract. 4th year has $12.5M Buyout...option becomes guaranteed with 200 IP in 2015 or 400 IP in 2014-15. So if you get to 4 years you'll get decent value.

    Honestly...I don't think I've looked at the players W/L record in 2 years. Too busy looking at 211 inns, 207 so, 3.16era, 1.11 whip etc

    There's like 7 Ace's in baseball...not sure how much more you want it gifted wrapped than that.

    If Ruf was 2 years younger he's be the #1 prospect in the game. I'd be happy if he was 29. The ball doesn't care how old you are when you hit it out of the park.
    Billy...Billlyyyyyyyyy...I respect your opinions but let's not get carried away here lol. Borderline top 100 maybe if he was 24. Not #1.

    Anyways, I will agree with the other posters you are giving too much away for Lee.

    Here's why:

    Lee's 34. Still not too old but what scares me is that bloated contract. When a team has openly said they want to get rid of it, you dont go in and help them out by taking it and giving up a few top prospects on top of it.

    Think of it as -- being at a garage sale (if they have those in australia). People wanting to get rid of their old stuff. Price tag on a table is $10 -- but who we kidding you could get that table for maybe $5 if you tried hard.

    Same applies here -- if the Phils really want to get rid of Lee, they will do it at a lower asking price. If they dont, then dont bother. Lee is still a very good pitcher, but if Im going to be taking on a contract that big, I'd try to pursue Seattle in giving up King Felix -- which would likely take 4 top prospects but Im fine with that. But the difference is 10 years in age difference.

    I could go out and get Jake Peavy who will cost about $10 mil less a year, but was better than Lee this year -- better whip, more innings, less hits given up -- and on top of this in a stronger AL.

    So if I were to go out and try to get Lee -- I would simply ask the Phils I will take the bloated contract and here is --- I dont know Dan Norris back. Fair offer. If you want Ruf that bad, throw in maybe Michael Crouse. Really dont need to throw in guys like Janssen or Sanchez anywhere near a deal like this.

    Ruf
    Last edited by Sanyo; 10-08-2012 at 11:53 AM.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanyo View Post
    Billy...Billlyyyyyyyyy...I respect your opinions but let's not get carried away here lol. Borderline top 100 maybe if he was 24. Not #1.

    Anyways, I will agree with the other posters you are giving too much away for Lee.

    Here's why:

    Lee's 34. Still not too old but what scares me is that bloated contract. When a team has openly said they want to get rid of it, you dont go in and help them out by taking it and giving up a few top prospects on top of it.

    Think of it as -- being at a garage sale (if they have those in australia). People wanting to get rid of their old stuff. Price tag on a table is $10 -- but who we kidding you could get that table for maybe $5 if you tried hard.

    Same applies here -- if the Phils really want to get rid of Lee, they will do it at a lower asking price. If they dont, then dont bother. Lee is still a very good pitcher, but if Im going to be taking on a contract that big, I'd try to pursue Seattle in giving up King Felix -- which would likely take 4 top prospects but Im fine with that. But the difference is 10 years in age difference.

    I could go out and get Jake Peavy who will cost about $10 mil less a year, but was better than Lee this year -- better whip, more innings, less hits given up -- and on top of this in a stronger AL.

    So if I were to go out and try to get Lee -- I would simply ask the Phils I will take the bloated contract and here is --- I dont know Jake Marisnick back. Fair offer. If you want Ruf that bad, throw in Chad Jenkins and maybe Michael Crouse. Really dont need to throw in guys like Janssen, Sanchez or Norris anywhere near a deal like this.

    Ruf
    Considering how the Phils refused to trade Lee to the Dodgers and were asking for the Rangers top prospects back makes me think your overestimating how much they want to be rid of him

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by lajoie View Post
    Considering how the Phils refused to trade Lee to the Dodgers and were asking for the Rangers top prospects back makes me think your overestimating how much they want to be rid of him
    Well up to them how much they want to get rid of him, hence why I said I wouldnt play into their game.

    Yes, the Phils think they deserve the world -- but they dont. Lee's contract is too long and he's getting older. Look at Halladay at 35 -- starting to slowly fizzle out -- not saying he wont bounce back but if they expect Halladay of 5-10 years ago, who are we kidding?

    Same with Lee, 34, this year was having a bit of a rough time before bouncing back but who knows what the norm will be with him. But Im not giving up my #1 or #2 prospect to take back nearly $75+ club options.

    Again, could go out and get a Peavy and maybe another pitcher at around $10 mil.

  12. #177
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    Have to agree thats a hell of a lot of money for a 34 year old. I agree though if they want him out so bad, then they have to eat some of that contract. But at 25m a year we may be able to get 2 pitchers. Theres only 1 guy I'd take at near that money is Felix, and I doubt that trade will happen. But Felix and Seager I'd give a bunch. Seager playing 3rd, got kicked off 2nd by Ackley. But most scouts there think Seager is the better 2nd baseman and better overall player. But thats even more unlikely. Thats just a dream.

  13. #178
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    Just read article, link below, where it says Rangers want Profar at 2nd base next year so either Kinsler gets moved to the outfield or is trade bait. Rangers need a catcher as well and don't seem interested in signing Napoli for the 10 mil he's gonna want. If they do re-sign Hamilton they'll look to save elsewhere I'd imagine. Letting Kinsler and Napoli go would free up the cash to sign Hamilton.

    Profar would replace Kinsler at second and how about we send JPA and one of the big 3 pitching prospects along with another lower 10-15 propect for Kinsler? Thoughts?

    http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/10...ers-might.html

  14. #179
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    ^ interesting read esp. when you consider they just signed him to a 5 /75 extension this year. But its probably a contract that would interest AA considering Kinsler is quality and has a good bat.. Problem is that with the weak market in mid infielders this off season there will be a few teams in the hunt for him. He would cost alot. And I'm thinking that other suitors will give a lot more than a JPA and 1 of the so called "big 3" that probably aren't ready till 2014 or 15. I think they want immediate younger guys who can step in right away. They won't take a step back to re tool with prospects not ready for a few years.

    1 note here, I see him and Phillips as about the same. We were all over trying to get Phillips but he resigned for less than Kinsler, but if AA had interest in Phillips, it would only seem probable that he will kick some tires here, if in fact Texas will shop him.
    Last edited by wagnall; 10-08-2012 at 05:18 PM.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanyo View Post

    Anyways, I will agree with the other posters you are giving too much away for Lee.

    So if I were to go out and try to get Lee -- I would simply ask the Phils I will take the bloated contract and here is --- I dont know Dan Norris back. Fair offer. If you want Ruf that bad, throw in maybe Michael Crouse. Really dont need to throw in guys like Janssen or Sanchez anywhere near a deal like this.

    Ruf
    I posted my little trade idea in the Philes forum...It was like I was insulting their mothers. I was offering garbage. They say the Phils wanted Profar/Olt + for Lee. *** me!

    So there you go...I BIT of grey area there in the middle...Always interesting how fans view their own players/specs.
    Hey! It'S JoeyBatS

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