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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    The birth certificate isue was a little different in that, in essence, it was just using an Obama tactic against Obama. The tactic I am referrencing is trying to have your opponent declared or perceived as ineligible for the office they are running for. He's done it more than once. I feel no sympathy for him in that regard. Of course, the racial undertones from some turn the issue into something more nasty than a simple eligibility issue.

    As for the taxes, I would just like to have one question answered. If Romney is paying at a lower rate, but the return is legal (i.e. if audited, no findings are produced by the IRS), then WTF is the big deal? I keep hearing from folks like Michael Moore and democratic party leaders that tax revenues need to go up. What are they paying? Is anyone even asking??? Or is Romney's obligation of dislclosure somehow unique?

    Name me one prominent democrat who doesn't use a quality CPA to do their return, and/ or doesn't pay more than legally necessary. I can't think of one person, not one, who ever looked at their tax forms and said "**** it, we owe $16,500 this year, but let's just make it an even $20,000." Who says that??? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller...?

    If Ronmey is determined to have paid one dollar more than is absolutely legally necessary, I will question his judgement.

    BTW, what's the penalty for extortion/ blackmail these days?
    It's not about him doing something illegal, it's about how his policies would affect himself and the wealthiest among us vs how his policies would affect me. It's about using offshore accounts to hide money. It's about an understanding of what the common person can do to not pay taxes and what Romney can do. No one is accusing Romney of doing something illegal (even Harry reed with his asinine comments didn't claim that) But he wants to lower taxes on the wealthy, cut the capital gains tax and I think people should be able to understand what rich people are paying as is. We hear Obama want's them to pay 39.4%... but that doesn't mean they would actually pay that % cause that's only on income. Romney's tax would go from what 13 to maybe 14% if Obama had his way. COME ON! it's relevant.

    At the very least if Romney can't produce his returns he should at least have the good sense to come out with what his actual tax plan is.

    I don't know... but again if true these people should be put away for it.
    Last edited by flips333; 09-07-2012 at 08:54 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sota4Ever View Post
    You honestly think that Romney wants to be president just so he can change tax laws so that he gets to keep a little more of his money....
    I don't hear a bit of passion in his voice to try to do anything else. Paul Ryan has passion in his voice and wants to do what he think is best for this country, I happen to disagree with him but at least I can see that he wants to be a positive force.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I don't hear a bit of passion in his voice to try to do anything else. Paul Ryan has passion in his voice and wants to do what he think is best for this country, I happen to disagree with him but at least I can see that he wants to be a positive force.
    lo with all the attention Ryan has been getting...l i almost feel like Paul Ryan is the Presidential candidate and Mitt Romney is the vice-president.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOBolous View Post
    lo with all the attention Ryan has been getting...l i almost feel like Paul Ryan is the Presidential candidate and Mitt Romney is the vice-president.
    I was thinking the same thing. He certainly comes off as a better candidate than Mitt Romney. At least in my eyes....

  5. #35
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    It's not something you can quantify but it's something you can feel. No one feels Romney's candidacy, Democrats feel Obama's candidacy and Republicans feel Ryan's vice-candidacy. But I don't know anyone who feels Romney's candidacy.

    As far as Romney goes though, I am dubious of anyone who pushes a plan where there tax rate would be effectively cut to zero percent. We need to lower all the rates and treat capital gains like ordinary income. I would be pushing for lowering the bottom rate to zero and making the top tier 25% and zeroing out all deductions that are not education, charity, housing, or medical. Five tiers going up 5% at roughly $30,000. The number for that could be moved slightly if someone made a strong case. I would also end the filing your taxes personally if you're a business. If you want to file as a person, then file your taxes not your businesses' taxes. The personal income tax is personal and no matter how politely Romney says that "corporations are people" they aren't. Just because the money goes to people doesn't follow that they are people. The light from the sun goes to our planet, it doesn't make us a sun.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    It's not something you can quantify but it's something you can feel. No one feels Romney's candidacy, Democrats feel Obama's candidacy and Republicans feel Ryan's vice-candidacy. But I don't know anyone who feels Romney's candidacy.

    As far as Romney goes though, I am dubious of anyone who pushes a plan where there tax rate would be effectively cut to zero percent. We need to lower all the rates and treat capital gains like ordinary income. I would be pushing for lowering the bottom rate to zero and making the top tier 25% and zeroing out all deductions that are not education, charity, housing, or medical. Five tiers going up 5% at roughly $30,000. The number for that could be moved slightly if someone made a strong case. I would also end the filing your taxes personally if you're a business. If you want to file as a person, then file your taxes not your businesses' taxes. The personal income tax is personal and no matter how politely Romney says that "corporations are people" they aren't. Just because the money goes to people doesn't follow that they are people. The light from the sun goes to our planet, it doesn't make us a sun.
    Exactly.

  7. #37
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    Its not surprising to hear fols talk about not feeling him as president, or agreeing with that sentient when they don't want him to be president.

    I can tell you this. My tepid reaction to him is hugely preferable to my intense negative reaction to the incumbant.

    As for the tax returns, I am hopeful he never releases them. Not becasue of aything he did or didn't do, (again, if he did something that should warrant our attention, the IRS can and should find it) but becasue I want to see those calling for their release to be flatly rejected. Seeing the fringe get more and more frothed at the mouth over sometrhing so relatively unimportant this is greatly entertaiing. I love it when the fringe gets told to pound sand, and to see them stomp their feet and demand again, like a bunch of spoiled six year olds. Yes, he can ignore them, and I think its a good thing that he does. Is the tax return really going to change anyone's vote? No. If you're asking for his return, I'll bet my savings that person is already looking to vote for Obama. Anyone already looking to vote for Romney doesnt care if he paid a lower rate. In fact, with his resources, we would expect him to. Why? Becasue if we had his resources, we'd do the same thing, and we can be honest with ourselves about it, and not miss a minutes sleep over it. I would be disappointed in him if he didn't- not that republicans are the only ones who pay the miniimum taxes. But hey, why spoil the ferver? It only matters when a non democrat does it, History now clearly tells us so.
    All complying with these silly demands would do is make the fringe feel empowered, only to then demand something else, perhaps from someone else,purely for political advatage. No, I'm good with just laughing at them and ignoring them, and watching them throw their little tantrum, media included.
    Last edited by Patsfan56; 09-08-2012 at 07:56 AM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    Its not surprising to hear fols talk about not feeling him as president, or agreeing with that sentient when they don't want him to be president.

    I can tell you this. My tepid reaction to him is hugely preferable to my intense negative reaction to the incumbant.

    As for the tax returns, I am hopeful he never releases them. Not becasue of aything he did or didn't do, (again, if he did something that should warrant our attention, the IRS can and should find it) but becasue I want to see those calling for their release to be flatly rejected. Seeing the fringe get more and more frothed at the mouth over sometrhing so relatively unimportant this is greatly entertaiing. I love it when the fringe gets told to pound sand, and to see them stomp their feet and demand again, like a bunch of spoiled six year olds. Yes, he can ignore them, and I think its a good thing that he does. Is the tax return really going to change anyone's vote? No. If you're asking for his return, I'll bet my savings that person is already looking to vote for Obama. Anyone already looking to vote for Romney doesnt care if he paid a lower rate. In fact, with his resources, we would expect him to. Why? Becasue if we had his resources, we'd do the same thing, and we can be honest with ourselves about it, and not miss a minutes sleep over it. I would be disappointed in him if he didn't- not that republicans are the only ones who pay the miniimum taxes. But hey, why spoil the ferver? It only matters when a non democrat does it, History now clearly tells us so.
    All complying with these silly demands would do is make the fringe feel empowered, only to then demand something else, perhaps from someone else,purely for political advatage. No, I'm good with just laughing at them and ignoring them, and watching them throw their little tantrum, media included.
    It's not the fringe

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    It's not the fringe
    Then that is realy sad. If folks didn't care about Geitner, then they can't care abbout Romney without something being much more political than it is about the issue. And to a person in here, no one cared about Geitner who is now brinign up Romney.

    Therefore, this is political, and not about taxes.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    Then that is realy sad. If folks didn't care about Geitner, then they can't care abbout Romney without something being much more political than it is about the issue. And to a person in here, no one cared about Geitner who is now brinign up Romney.

    Therefore, this is political, and not about taxes.
    maybe for them but not for me. Do you really think the reasons I and DBroncs gave are unreasonable?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    maybe for them but not for me. Do you really think the reasons I and DBroncs gave are unreasonable?
    It is not unreasonable at all. A perfectly legitimate concern. My only issue is that it seems to only to apply to one side of the political aisle.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    Then that is realy sad. If folks didn't care about Geitner, then they can't care abbout Romney without something being much more political than it is about the issue. And to a person in here, no one cared about Geitner who is now brinign up Romney.

    Therefore, this is political, and not about taxes.
    Trust me, people care about Geithner. But people are willing to overlook those issues if they feel that the person can be more positive than negative. People can bash Geithner for being a partisan person but its important to remember that he was on of the key players during the Bush administration in shaping George Bush's response to the market collapse.

    It might make me fit in with the fringe but the reason that I care about Romney's taxes is because I want to know how Romney's policies will affect his pocket book. Nepotism is something that bothers me greatly. All of the outrage over Solyndra, which makes up far less than 1% of the DOE loans sets off such conservative outrage yet a man running for the most powerful office in the world pushing policies that might very well lower his own taxes to 0% doesn't give those very same people that pause.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    It is not unreasonable at all. A perfectly legitimate concern. My only issue is that it seems to only to apply to one side of the political aisle.
    I want to know how the policies all politicians will affect the people who write them. I don't see how this is a one sided issue. As much as it interests me... I also don't see how Geitner is as important as the person we are choosing to be president.
    Last edited by flips333; 09-08-2012 at 11:08 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Trust me, people care about Geithner. But people are willing to overlook those issues if they feel that the person can be more positive than negative. People can bash Geithner for being a partisan person but its important to remember that he was on of the key players during the Bush administration in shaping George Bush's response to the market collapse.

    It might make me fit in with the fringe but the reason that I care about Romney's taxes is because I want to know how Romney's policies will affect his pocket book. Nepotism is something that bothers me greatly. All of the outrage over Solyndra, which makes up far less than 1% of the DOE loans sets off such conservative outrage yet a man running for the most powerful office in the world pushing policies that might very well lower his own taxes to 0% doesn't give those very same people that pause.
    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    I want to know how the policies all politicians will affect the people who write them. I don't see how this is a one sided issue.

    Its one sided if the people calling for the scrutiny onlly do so for those they oppose politically. If you give your guys a pass, but bear down on the other side, it negates the merit of the argument because it makes it appear as though the argument is not being presented in good faith. If an argument is not being made in good faith, the other side should not feel obligated to respond.
    Sean Hannity pulls this crap all the time, and its annoying as all hell, and made me dismiss him from the outset. That, and he's far too socially conservative for me to take him seriously.

    I don't begrudge your concern about the aspect of potential implications to the tax code. But if we weren't going to raise this when the issue last came up for the Treasury Secretary, it shouldn't mysteriously become important today. And while the Geitner issue came up in 2008, it was summarily dismissed by any non conservative in this forum. SO why are we all of a sudden concerned about the implications? If it depends on the letter following the persons name, that's not a reason for anyone who is legitimately concerned about the issue.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    Its one sided if the people calling for the scrutiny onlly do so for those they oppose politically. If you give your guys a pass, but bear down on the other side, it negates the merit of the argument because it makes it appear as though the argument is not being presented in good faith. If an argument is not being made in good faith, the other side should not feel obligated to respond.
    Sean Hannity pulls this crap all the time, and its annoying as all hell, and made me dismiss him from the outset. That, and he's far too socially conservative for me to take him seriously.

    I don't begrudge your concern about the aspect of potential implications to the tax code. But if we weren't going to raise this when the issue last came up for the Treasury Secretary, it shouldn't mysteriously become important today. And while the Geitner issue came up in 2008, it was summarily dismissed by any non conservative in this forum. SO why are we all of a sudden concerned about the implications? If it depends on the letter following the persons name, that's not a reason for anyone who is legitimately concerned about the issue.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

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