Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 21 of 21
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    3,227
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    The Leafs might be the younest team in the league, but they don't have the prospects in the system that are going to turn this around. They don't have a future #1 center in the system. We all know how good of a job Burke has done finding one through UFAs or trades in the 5 years he's been here, so I doubt that changes. To judge Burke's drafting this early on is ignorant? Do we have to wait a decade before we can debate it?
    Look at the drafts the Leafs have been in and their draft position and tell me what #1 center prospect they could have had. I want you to do that right now and don't mention the Seguin deal because that's horse crap.

    Look at all the drafts and where we stood and I want you to note down players who would be making a difference right now prospect wise. If you can find some i'll credit you.

    I looked back to 2006 and the only ones I saw were Cody Hodgson who is not a #1 center and Chris Kreider who was drafted the same year as Kadri just later in the round.
    Last edited by LuckyLuke2; 09-06-2012 at 03:08 PM.


    Toronto Gyarados.
    NHL Pokemon logo's for the win.


    Blue Jays,
    Maple Leafs and Steelers fan for life.


  2. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    25,683
    vCash
    1500
    The average NHL player is not full-time until age of 25.
    What evidence is there of that?

    I'll take the Leafs at random and look at the players who played over 40 games and see when they made there first 60+ game season. For goalies I'll look at the ones who appeared in 20 games this year and when they first played 20.


    Kessel-19
    Phaneuf-20
    Schenn-19
    Gunnarson-24
    Steckel-25
    Gardiner-21
    Grabovski-25
    Bozak-24
    MacArthur-23
    Kulemin-22
    Connolly-18
    Joey Crabb-28
    Lupul-20
    Liles-23
    Lombardi-21
    Komisarek-24
    Reimer-22
    Gustavsson-24
    Scrivens-25

    Pretty sure the average is alot lower.

    I agree prospects take a few years to develop (especially for most non first round picks) and Lavy point about the Leaf's prospect is overstated but you overstate the time and patience we should give most prospects also.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    30,123
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    What evidence is there of that?

    I'll take the Leafs at random and look at the players who played over 40 games and see when they made there first 60+ game season. For goalies I'll look at the ones who appeared in 20 games this year and when they first played 20.


    Kessel-19
    Phaneuf-20
    Schenn-19
    Gunnarson-24
    Steckel-25
    Gardiner-21
    Grabovski-25
    Bozak-24
    MacArthur-23
    Kulemin-22
    Connolly-18
    Joey Crabb-28
    Lupul-20
    Liles-23
    Lombardi-21
    Komisarek-24
    Reimer-22
    Gustavsson-24
    Scrivens-25

    Pretty sure the average is alot lower.

    I agree prospects take a few years to develop (especially for most non first round picks) and Lavy point about the Leaf's prospect is overstated but you overstate the time and patience we should give most prospects also.
    And like I've pointed out a million times before, we've had the second youngest or youngest team for years now so obviously our roster is full of guys under 25. On average, players aren't full-time 80+ games a year players until they're in their mid 20's. You can even factor ice time into it. I wasn't even just talking about early picks, the draft goes 7 rounds and most guys take 5+ years to make the league and play a serious role.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    25,683
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by halladaymvp View Post
    And like I've pointed out a million times before, we've had the second youngest or youngest team for years now so obviously our roster is full of guys under 25. On average, players aren't full-time 80+ games a year players until they're in their mid 20's. You can even factor ice time into it. I wasn't even just talking about early picks, the draft goes 7 rounds and most guys take 5+ years to make the league and play a serious role.
    Pick a team then (the New Jersey Devils are the oldest team in the NHL last year so I went with themy)

    If you do the same criteria I did before (guys who played 40 games with the Devils last year) and when they completed their first reasl season in the NHL (60+ games because 80+ is unrealistic considering injuries and callups, 60+ games means they played with the team most of the year). Goalies we will go with their first 30+ game season.

    To claim that a major role is necessary for this changes the equation. Lavy's point is that the Leafs havn't developed any NHLers in the Burke era (he's wrong because Gardiner does count) and for the most part it is still too early. But to not judge the Leafs drafts untill their in their mid 20's (meaning 6-8 years post draft with no real judgement on the Leafs draft untill then) is unreasonable. While obviously the evaluative process continues at that point and after it needs to begin before then.

    Anyway here are the Devils:

    Parise-21
    Petr Sykora-19
    Dainius Zubrus-18
    Mark Fayne-24
    Bryce Salvador-24
    Patrik Elias-21
    David Clarkson-23
    Ilya Kovalchuk-18
    Anton Volchenkov (23-this is generous considering he played 58 games two years before this and the lockout cost him a year)
    Adam Larsson-19
    Ryan Carter-27
    Andy Greene-25
    Eric Bolton-27
    Zajac-21

    After this there are only minor players (didnt really play a real role or guys who were rookies and didnt fit the games criteria)

    Martin Brodeur-21
    Hedberg-28

    Median age: 21
    Mean age:22

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    30,123
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    Pick a team then (the New Jersey Devils are the oldest team in the NHL last year so I went with themy)

    If you do the same criteria I did before (guys who played 40 games with the Devils last year) and when they completed their first reasl season in the NHL (60+ games because 80+ is unrealistic considering injuries and callups, 60+ games means they played with the team most of the year). Goalies we will go with their first 30+ game season.

    To claim that a major role is necessary for this changes the equation. Lavy's point is that the Leafs havn't developed any NHLers in the Burke era (he's wrong because Gardiner does count) and for the most part it is still too early. But to not judge the Leafs drafts untill their in their mid 20's (meaning 6-8 years post draft with no real judgement on the Leafs draft untill then) is unreasonable. While obviously the evaluative process continues at that point and after it needs to begin before then.

    Anyway here are the Devils:

    Parise-21
    Petr Sykora-19
    Dainius Zubrus-18
    Mark Fayne-24
    Bryce Salvador-24
    Patrik Elias-21
    David Clarkson-23
    Ilya Kovalchuk-18
    Anton Volchenkov (23-this is generous considering he played 58 games two years before this and the lockout cost him a year)
    Adam Larsson-19
    Ryan Carter-27
    Andy Greene-25
    Eric Bolton-27
    Zajac-21

    After this there are only minor players (didnt really play a real role or guys who were rookies and didnt fit the games criteria)

    Martin Brodeur-21
    Hedberg-28

    Median age: 21
    Mean age:22
    When you look at the numbers, the Leafs average age last season was tied with Edmonton with an average of 26 years old and IIRC the oldest player was Connolly at 31 or so. So, while we may not have a team full of Burke drafted players, the team is extremely young. It's very pre-mature to judge Burke after just a few drafts considering the guys he's drafted will be at most 21 or so going into next season. Hardly enough time to put a grade beside it. I'm not just referring to the first round or early selections, it goes far beyond that. And how easy it is to forget that we also have Kessel, a top scorer whom we dealt picks for as well. He must be included. After next season is when I'll really start evaluating Burke's draftees.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    30,123
    vCash
    1500
    I've been bored lately and have read up some of our recent selections and found this pretty funny-
    Loov may have been overlooked because he was mistakenly listed as being 5-foot-6
    One of our late round selections who many have deemed a "steal".

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •