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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rageaholic View Post
    No, they didn't. Sigh, don't get me started again.

    From Politifact

    "The plant was effectively shut down on Dec. 23, 2008, when GM ceased production of SUVs there and laid off 1,200 workers. (Several dozen workers stayed on another four months to finish an order of small- to medium-duty trucks for Isuzu Motors."

    Only a skeleton crew remained after that.

    From USA Today:

    "The report noted that 'about 50' workers remained at the plant until May or June 2009 to complete outstanding orders. The Janesville plant opened in 1918 as a tractor production center; it started producing cars in 1923."

    http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.UD8QptZlTa4

    Politifact made no wrong claims. None.
    Point is obama didn't save it like promised.

  2. #32
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    Paul Ryan Slams Obama For Not Saving Auto Plant That Closed Under Bush

    Let me clear this up for you -

    Obama promised "change" and "hope" a few years ago...he didn't lie about that.

    It's just not the "change" r "hope" any American should ever want. PERIOD.

    The change came in the firm of his want and willingness to disregard the constitution and destroy the country like no other man has.

    It was his "hope" tht he could accomplish this.

    Anyone that voted for him should have one thing on their mind - REGRET!


    A Real American HERO !!!





    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Dodgers rule.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Moroni View Post
    It's not a lie, it's a fact tht Obama continues to make promises he just doesn't keep.
    It's one of those things that's not technically a lie, but it is playing fast and loose with the actual facts. From a political perspective, that is the same thing. The Democrats or the news media or whoever is leading the discussion says Ryan was lying. That the plant closed under Bush, jr. The GOP has to spend time explaining that maybe that's true but the cleanup crew technically left on Obama's watch. Whenever you are making a lawyers argument in a political context, you are losing.

    The coverage of the speech always contains a segment of how Ryan lied about the plant. or stretched the truth if you wish. It seems to me, that Ryan's strengths include a 'Jack Armstrong the all American Boy' reputation. Playing fast and loose with the truth to get a nice story can only tarnish that reputation. The last thing Ryan wants to be right now is just another politician. This issue is going to come up again.

    Like Romney and his taxes, things that make a candidate look like just another dishonest guy don't help a campaign. Ryan would have been better served to skip the story and let the networks play the sound bites of the speech instead of letting the story be how he lied in the speech.

  4. #34
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    The heart of this thread is that a plant closed. When it happened is irreverent. It closed and jobs were lost.
    This scenario has happened over and over again under this current president. Skew it anyway you like, Obama has failed. His policies are there to help the lazy. You not punish the successful to give to those unwilling to do anything because they get things for free.

    This is America, you want something get out of bed and build it. Pretty simple actually. Instead we just "stimulate" the economy. Want to stimulate your own financial situation?, get out of bed, get dressed and actually stop relying on welfare to pay your way. You will feel better, create your own and possibly other jobs, and actually contribute to this country and stop taking from it.

    You want birth control? Go buy it. Stop waiting for the government to give it too you. If that's not what you want, stop having sex....tht should stimulate you to go get a job and buy your own birth control. Lazy is lazy. We need less lazy and more productivity.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyFan View Post
    It's one of those things that's not technically a lie, but it is playing fast and loose with the actual facts. From a political perspective, that is the same thing. The Democrats or the news media or whoever is leading the discussion says Ryan was lying. That the plant closed under Bush, jr. The GOP has to spend time explaining that maybe that's true but the cleanup crew technically left on Obama's watch. Whenever you are making a lawyers argument in a political context, you are losing.

    The coverage of the speech always contains a segment of how Ryan lied about the plant. or stretched the truth if you wish. It seems to me, that Ryan's strengths include a 'Jack Armstrong the all American Boy' reputation. Playing fast and loose with the truth to get a nice story can only tarnish that reputation. The last thing Ryan wants to be right now is just another politician. This issue is going to come up again.

    Like Romney and his taxes, things that make a candidate look like just another dishonest guy don't help a campaign. Ryan would have been better served to skip the story and let the networks play the sound bites of the speech instead of letting the story be how he lied in the speech.
    I get that. Like the Obama commercial stating Romney killed a guys wife. Fact checking would have prevented this.
    Romney btw paid his taxes, he just doesn't want everyone to know how much he makes. the IRS would be all over him if this wasn't the case. Do people really think they haven't checked this yet?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scully in 2012 View Post
    Let me clear this up for you -

    Obama promised "change" and "hope" a few years ago...he didn't lie about that.

    It's just not the "change" r "hope" any American should ever want. PERIOD.

    The change came in the firm of his want and willingness to disregard the constitution and destroy the country like no other man has.

    It was his "hope" tht he could accomplish this.

    Anyone that voted for him should have one thing on their mind - REGRET!
    I agree. The diehards on both ends will vote party regardless. The RNC is for the independents and fringe democrats. Don't forget, many republicans voted for Obama in 2008. He will not get those this time around.

  7. #37
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    [QUOTE=Scully in 2012;23480249]Let me clear this up for you -

    Obama promised "change" and "hope" a few years ago...he didn't lie about that.

    It's just not the "change" r "hope" any American should ever want.

    Yup.

  8. #38
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    So, it appears that the plant wasn't officially closed until Obama was in office.

    So....Ryan was not lying.

    This is a ****ing trend in politics. Call yourself a "fact checker" and hone in on minutia while ignoring the larger points someone makes.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    So, it appears that the plant wasn't officially closed until Obama was in office.

    So....Ryan was not lying.

    This is a ****ing trend in politics. Call yourself a "fact checker" and hone in on minutia while ignoring the larger points someone makes.
    or in this case ignoring the larger facts, that the plant closed under bush, and use a lawyer's argument to lie without lying.

    either way it's bad politics on the GOP's part. The lie is the story, not the plant closing. and Ryan starts to look like just another political hack.

  10. #40
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    It was, by any reasonable standards, a staggering, staggering lie. Here’s Paul Ryan about Barack Obama:

    He created a bipartisan debt commission. They came back with an urgent report. He thanked them, sent them on their way, and then did exactly nothing.
    “They.” “Them.” “Them.” Those words are lies. Because Paul Ryan was on that commission. “Came back with an urgent report.” That is a lie. The commission never made any recommendations for Barack Obama to support or oppose. Why not? Because the commission voted down its own recommendations. Why? Because Paul Ryan, a member of the commission, voted it down and successfully convinced the other House Republicans on the commission to vote it down.

    That wasn’t the only bit of mendacity – lazy mendacity, incredibly lazy mendacity – in Ryan’s speech. Twitter lit up as soon as he started telling the story of the Janesville auto plant that Barack Obama didn’t save – a plant that, it turns out, closed before Obama was president. And of course there’s the infamous cuts to Medicare that Ryan lambasted Obama for without happening to mention that those very same cuts were in Paul Ryan’s own budget. Yes: absolutely everything in Obamacare is an abomination, says Paul Ryan, except for (as he forgets to mention) the cuts to Medicare that he supports – and yet he still singles that part out to use as an attack.

    It isn’t even true in some symbolic or abstract way. The real truth is that Paul Ryan completely rejects the approach of that commission – because it includes tax increases along with spending cuts – while Barack Obama has, while not endorsing the exact plan that Ryan shot down, basically endorsed the commission’s approach. Nor was this a side point; Ryan's complaint about Obama on the deficit was absolutely central to his case against the president.

    And then there’s the logic of the whole thing. As Seth Masket said, it all comes down to arguing “we must cut entitlements! Obama cutting entitlements is un-American.” There’s also, as many were pointing out, the plain fact that until January 2009 Paul Ryan faithfully supported all the tax cuts and spending increases which created the deficit problem he’s been so concerned about since January 2009.

    But really, the proper response to a speech like this isn’t to carefully analyze the logic, or to find instances of hypocracy; it’s to call the speaker out for telling flat-out lies to the American people. Paul Ryan has had what I’ve long thought was an undeserved good reputation among many in the press and in Washington. It shouldn’t survive tonight’s speech.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...300b_blog.html

  11. #41
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyFan View Post
    It's one of those things that's not technically a lie, but it is playing fast and loose with the actual facts. From a political perspective, that is the same thing. The Democrats or the news media or whoever is leading the discussion says Ryan was lying. That the plant closed under Bush, jr. The GOP has to spend time explaining that maybe that's true but the cleanup crew technically left on Obama's watch. Whenever you are making a lawyers argument in a political context, you are losing.

    The coverage of the speech always contains a segment of how Ryan lied about the plant. or stretched the truth if you wish. It seems to me, that Ryan's strengths include a 'Jack Armstrong the all American Boy' reputation. Playing fast and loose with the truth to get a nice story can only tarnish that reputation. The last thing Ryan wants to be right now is just another politician. This issue is going to come up again.

    Like Romney and his taxes, things that make a candidate look like just another dishonest guy don't help a campaign. Ryan would have been better served to skip the story and let the networks play the sound bites of the speech instead of letting the story be how he lied in the speech.
    He didn't lie. The plant closed one line in 2008 and the rest of the plant closed in June, 2009. I knew someone who worked there and they were waiting for Obama to help save them like he promised and then closed it down because they knew it wasn't going to happen.

    They did close part of it in Dec, 2008 but the whole plant didn't officially close until June of 2009 under Obama's administration.

  13. #43
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    when Fox News is even calling out Ryan you know its has to be BS

    On the other hand, to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to facts, Ryan’s speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech. On this measure, while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold.
    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...#ixzz252zfNiLI
    Sens Raps Jays

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
    when Fox News is even calling out Ryan you know its has to be BS



    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...#ixzz252zfNiLI
    It's not Fox News. That's an opinion piece by Sally Kohn, a liberal contributor to Fox.




    Major props to rdwilliamson

  15. #45
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    Literacy doesn't seem to be a strong suit around here, eh?

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