Adrian Gonzalez or Allen Craig?

[d79cheese]

Hell you could probably make an argument that possibly by next year AD won't even be the best offensive 1B in the NL West.

Paul Goldschmidt is currently at a .376 wOBA and wRC+ of 132 (and this is with an abysmal April where he shared time with Overbay). Obviously he doesn't have the PA's as Gonzalez, but he's walking about 10% for the second straight year and has drastically cut down his K% since his first year (29 to 23). Think it's safe to say he will have more power then AD going forward, and if he continues to show patience and keeps trimming down the K numbers he will be a monster (not to mention he is going to steal 10 bases a year as well). Not going on record that he is better then AD right now, but let's not keep assuming the AD is still a top 5 1B in the entire league (offensively at least)

[Jeffy25]

How about no, because that's a 35 game sample size?

I was asking for the rest of their careers, not just this season.

[VRP723]

Yes, I would take Todd Frazier over Pujols. Pujols is in his decline and Frazier is just entering his prime.

Ok, well this guy's opinion is thrown out lol

Hell you could probably make an argument that possibly by next year AD won't even be the best offensive 1B in the NL West.

Paul Goldschmidt is currently at a .376 wOBA and wRC+ of 132 (and this is with an abysmal April where he shared time with Overbay). Obviously he doesn't have the PA's as Gonzalez, but he's walking about 10% for the second straight year and has drastically cut down his K% since his first year (29 to 23). Think it's safe to say he will have more power then AD going forward, and if he continues to show patience and keeps trimming down the K numbers he will be a monster (not to mention he is going to steal 10 bases a year as well). Not going on record that he is better then AD right now, but let's not keep assuming the AD is still a top 5 1B in the entire league (offensively at least)

No way. Goldschmidt can't hit RHP well enough to be an elite 1B, eventually he'll be managed around. Not saying he won't be a good player, but he won't be a top 1B anytime soon, I'd think.

I was asking for the rest of their careers, not just this season.

Then sure.

[Guppyfighter]

Ok, well this guy's opinion is thrown out lol



No way. Goldschmidt can't hit RHP well enough to be an elite 1B, eventually he'll be figured out.



Then sure.

Pujols wOBA has been in a steady decline now for the last three years.

Frazier, despite having not a lot of PA's has a steadily increasing wOBA and is 26.

[d79cheese]

No way. Goldschmidt can't hit RHP well enough to be an elite 1B, eventually he'll be managed around. Not saying he won't be a good player, but he won't be a top 1B anytime soon, I'd think.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...first-baseman/

He has steadily improved throughout the season vs Righties, and he DESTROYS lefties. Not trying to offend you, but you sound a bit hypocritcall. You argued that it didn't matter that Ethier was horrible against lefties, he was so good against righties that his overal numbers still lined up with top OF's. Well Goldschmidt's overall numbers are pretty damn impressive, MUCH better then A-Gone this season (and line up pretty well with some of his other seasons).

Obviously he needs to improve still and needs to show more then a few months then he can hit righties. He' still only 25 and the fact he didn't suffer through a "sophmore slump" for most of the season bodes well for him going forward

[VRP723]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...first-baseman/

He has steadily improved throughout the season vs Righties, and he DESTROYS lefties. Not trying to offend you, but you sound a bit hypocritcall. You argued that it didn't matter that Ethier was horrible against lefties, he was so good against righties that his overal numbers still lined up with top OF's. Well Goldschmidt's overall numbers are pretty damn impressive, MUCH better then A-Gone this season (and line up pretty well with some of his other seasons).

Obviously he needs to improve still and needs to show more then a few months then he can hit righties. He' still only 25 and the fact he didn't suffer through a "sophmore slump" for most of the season bodes well for him going forward

1) Not hitting lefties is pretty significant difference than not hitting righties. Also you said Goldschmidt could become elite sans defense. I wouldn't argue Ethier is an elite offensive RF.

2) Found it pretty ironic that this was part of the article

That doesn’t mean he’s as good as or better than any of them — they have long track records of success, and Goldschmidt only crossed the 600 PA mark for his career last week.

[d79cheese]

1) Not hitting lefties is pretty significant difference than not hitting righties. Also you said Goldschmidt could become elite sans defense. I wouldn't argue Ethier is an elite offensive RF.

2) Found it pretty ironic that this was part of the article

Which is exactly what I said. I never said Goldy was the absolute better option going forward. But an argument CAN be made that he will be the better offensive 1B as soon as next year, and it wouldn't be completly far fetched. It's not for certain, just like it's not for certain that A Gone is going to be an elite 1B again (~ top 5 in baseball).

[VRP723]

[/B]

Which is exactly what I said. I never said Goldy was the absolute better option going forward. But an argument CAN be made that he will be the better offensive 1B as soon as next year, and it wouldn't be completly far fetched. It's not for certain, just like it's not for certain that A Gone is going to be an elite 1B again (~ top 5 in baseball).

I found it ironic because the player this whole debate started around has 600 PA's.

Not to mention is 3 years older.

I'd take Goldy going forwards over Allen Craig without a doubt.

[Jeffy25]

I like Goldie, but he is too much of a lefty masher and a weakling against righties to be an elite first basemen anytime soon.

career
vs righties - .766 OPS
vs lefties - 1.053 OPS

And that is actually exasperated by this season.

He is about to turn 25, so no problem there, he has time to make up that average bat against righties, but that hurts his likelihood to be an elite first basemen.

Craig has a bit of a split, but it isn't as bad

career
vs righties - .848
vs lefties - .992

And he has been better this season (.864 OPS against righties).


A-Gone hits lefties really well fwiw.

[Jeffy25]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...first-baseman/

He has steadily improved throughout the season vs Righties, and he DESTROYS lefties. Not trying to offend you, but you sound a bit hypocritcall. You argued that it didn't matter that Ethier was horrible against lefties, he was so good against righties that his overal numbers still lined up with top OF's. Well Goldschmidt's overall numbers are pretty damn impressive, MUCH better then A-Gone this season (and line up pretty well with some of his other seasons).

Obviously he needs to improve still and needs to show more then a few months then he can hit righties. He' still only 25 and the fact he didn't suffer through a "sophmore slump" for most of the season bodes well for him going forward

To be fair, Ethier will face a lot more righties in his career than lefties regardless how he is managed. And Goldy, will face a lot more righties than lefties in his career as well. They are just a lot more right handed pitchers in the game than left handers. If you have a pure platoon split hitter, you would rather he mash righties than lefties.

But then again, Ethier is horrible against lefties, far worse than Goldie is against righties, so that makes up the difference a bit (if we were comparing Ethier and Goldie).

[VRP723]

I like Goldie, but he is too much of a lefty masher and a weakling against righties to be an elite first basemen anytime soon.

career
vs righties - .766 OPS
vs lefties - 1.053 OPS

And that is actually exasperated by this season.

He is about to turn 25, so no problem there, he has time to make up that average bat against righties, but that hurts his likelihood to be an elite first basemen.

Craig has a bit of a split, but it isn't as bad

career
vs righties - .848
vs lefties - .992

And he has been better this season (.864 OPS against righties).


A-Gone hits lefties really well fwiw.

As I'm reading this, A-Gon rips a single down the line off Mike Dunn.

[IndiansFan337]

At this point, it is Gonzalez and it's not even close. He has proven himself over the past 5+ years. He's a Gold Glove caliber 1B, proved he could handle the corner OF in a pinch, and has been hitting for a great BA and drawing some BB's. His power hasn't been tremendous this year, but it hasn't been non-existent either.

[Jeffy25]

At this point, it is Gonzalez and it's not even close. He has proven himself over the past 5+ years. He's a Gold Glove caliber 1B, proved he could handle the corner OF in a pinch, and has been hitting for a great BA and drawing some BB's. His power hasn't been tremendous this year, but it hasn't been non-existent either.

How is it not close?




Thought I would add, Craig has been playing with a hurt knee all season long, he said he can only run about 80%.

That should give you an idea how good his hitting has been, even if he is playing a little banged up from that play in Cincy earlier in the season.

[Halo4life]

Yes, I would take Todd Frazier over Pujols. Pujols is in his decline and Frazier is just entering his prime.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[Guppyfighter]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Not only has he been better all season, but he is younger.

wOBA of Frazier is .381 and Albert is at .367.

Not only that, but Albert has been in a steady decline for the last three years while Frazier is at the age of 26. I don't see why that's so laughable.