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View Poll Results: Who would you pick going forward? Money aside

Voters
43. You may not vote on this poll
  • Adrian Gonzalez

    30 69.77%
  • Allen Craig

    13 30.23%
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Results 46 to 52 of 52
  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by VRP723 View Post
    Wrong

    Allen Craig 2011-2012 - .318/.373/.574, 156 OPS+, 5.9 WAR

    Adrian Gonzalez 2009 - .277/.407/.551, 162 OPS+, 6.2 WAR
    Adrian Gonzalez 2011 - .338/.410/.548, 153 OPS+, 6.6 WAR

    That's the whole ****ing point. We don't know. We do know that Gonzalez is most likely still an elite bat. The odds that a player of Gonzalez's stature just declined in one year is much lower than that a 28 year old who hasn't played a full season is actually a .400 wOBA hitter.
    Even though he has done this his entire professional career?

    And my whole issue with what you said is that you seem to think it's ridiculous to take Craig over A-Gone. I don't know who I would take. I'm well aware of the small sample size, it's not like this Trevor Plouffe who is just suddenly doing this and never even did it in the minors. Craig has done this at every level, he just wasn't promoted as quickly as he should have been.

    A-Gone is/was an elite superstar. Craig could be soon. Gun to my head, I would take A-Gone. But I don't see it as a ridiculous question or comparison at all. Craig is a much better hitter than people may realize. Part of this is that I do watch him every night. His plate approach is great, he is disciplined. So that is partially boosting my opinion of him. But he also has really strong numbers supporting him, and they don't seem to be getting worse the more he plays.

    wOBA by month
    May - .484
    June - .381
    July - .354
    Aug - .443

    I have always said Craig would be a .380 wOBA major league hitter. If A-Gone is a .372 moving forward (career average) it doesn't seem like a stretch to take the guy with the shorter sample size that is out performing that .380 currently.


    Quote Originally Posted by VRP723 View Post
    And why do you keep sourcing his MiLB numbers? He was 26 playing 22 year olds and he was kicking ***. No ****. So does Jerry Sands, Scott Van Slyke and countless prospects that are playing inferior, less developed competition.
    The difference is those guys didn't spank when they did get their chance like Craig has. 600 PA is a full seasons worth of PA.

    Van Slyke and Sands didn't get 588 big league PA and hit 31 home runs and carry a .404 wOBA, 160 wRC+
    Last edited by Jeffy25; 08-28-2012 at 06:24 PM.

  2. #47
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    And it's possible that Craig is better going forwards. But your arguments throughout the thread have been nonsensical. Particularly the one about "Craig not getting respect". He's being compared to a guy who most people would consider one of the top 10-20 players in the sport. It's not about a lack of respect, it's rather a very good, relatively unproven player being compared to a very good, proven star. If the argument was Trout and Jon Jay, then I'd understand going with the less proven guy with the potential to be much, much better. But Craig probably tops out at a tad bit better offensively, and worse defensively, than what Gonzalez is actually currently doing. So obviously most people would take the guy who's proven he can consistently do it over the one who might be able to.

    Coming soon to a TKRO stadium near you

  3. #48
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    Up to 712 PA with another 47 in the playoffs, not sure what he magic number is that people are looking for though.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by VRP723 View Post
    And it's possible that Craig is better going forwards. But your arguments throughout the thread have been nonsensical. Particularly the one about "Craig not getting respect". He's being compared to a guy who most people would consider one of the top 10-20 players in the sport. It's not about a lack of respect, it's rather a very good, relatively unproven player being compared to a very good, proven star. If the argument was Trout and Jon Jay, then I'd understand going with the less proven guy with the potential to be much, much better. But Craig probably tops out at a tad bit better offensively, and worse defensively, than what Gonzalez is actually currently doing. So obviously most people would take the guy who's proven he can consistently do it over the one who might be able to.
    I understand all of that.

    But one, that isn't what the question is asking in this thread it is, which would you rather have moving forward?

    and secondly, I have never used the 'word' respect in this thread. My view is nothing more than people are unaware of what Craig has been doing. I believe most people see this thread title and assume it means which player is better, and it's comparing a guy everyone has heard of vs a guy not everyone has heard of and have probably not even bothered to look up his numbers. In this thread I have not spoken about respect, and I don't see how my argument is nonsensical.

    Who would you rather have moving forward?

    The career .372 wOBA first basemen with 4700 career PA that is 30 years old
    Or the .387 wOBA corner outfielder/first basemen with 700 PA that is 28 years old

    It's not nonsensical to take the .387 wOBA hitter if you think he will perform better moving forward. And it isn't ridiculous that 30% of the voters have said the latter of those two choices.
    Last edited by Jeffy25; 08-28-2012 at 08:37 PM. Reason: spelling error

  5. #50
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    Obviously this doesn't answer it in conclusion (not enough sample size)

    But since this thread was created:


    AG - .245/.302/.368 - .297 wOBA, 88 wRC+, 1 HR, 16 RBI, 0.3 fWAR
    AC - .292/.310/.434 - .327 wOBA, 105 wRC+, 3 HR, 21 RBI, 0.4 fWAR

    Neither player has played all that well, Craig for example has only drawn 3 walks vs 18 strike outs, which is abnormal even for him.

    But I thought I would simply share, not trying to make any points.

  6. #51
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    Jeffy all of your posts are trying to make some sort of point


    San Francisco Giants Trophy Wall

  7. #52
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    2 homeruns for Adrian tonight,

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