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  1. #1
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    all 9 shot at empire state bldg hit with nypd bullets

    NEW YORK (AP) All nine people injured during a dramatic confrontation between police and a gunman outside the Empire State Building were wounded by gunfire from the two officers, police said Saturday, citing ballistics evidence.
    The veteran patrolmen who opened fire on the suit-clad gunman, Jeffrey Johnson, had only an instant to react when he whirled around and pointed a .45-caliber pistol at them as they approached him from behind on a busy sidewalk.
    Officer Craig Matthews shot seven times, and Officer Robert Sinishtaj fired nine times, police said. Neither had ever fired their weapons before on a patrol.
    The volley of gunfire felled Johnson in just a few seconds and left nine other people bleeding on the sidewalk.
    In the initial chaos Friday, it wasn't clear whether Johnson or the officers were responsible for the trail of the wounded, but based on ballistic and other evidence, "it appears that all nine of the victims were struck either by fragments or by bullets fired by police," Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly told reporters Saturday at a community event in Harlem.
    Police officials have said the officers appeared to have no choice but to shoot Johnson, whose body had 10 bullet wounds in the chest, arms and legs.
    The officers confronted Johnson as he walked, casually, down the street after gunning down a former co-worker on the sidewalk outside the office they once shared. The shooting happened at 9 a.m., as the neighborhood bustled with people arriving for work.
    The gunman and his victim, Steve Ercolino, had a history of workplace squabbles before Johnson was laid off from their company, Hazan Import Corp., a year ago. At one point, the two men had grappled physically in an elevator.
    John Koch, the property manager at the office building where the men worked, said security camera footage showed the two pushing and shoving. The tussle ended when Ercolino, a much larger man, pinned Johnson against the wall of the elevator by the throat, Koch said. Ercolino let him go after a few moments, and the two men went their separate ways.
    "They didn't like each other," Koch said.
    After shooting Ercolino, Johnson, an eccentric T-shirt designer and avid bird-watcher who wore a suit every day, even when photographing hawks in Central Park, walked away as if nothing had happened.
    Alerted by a construction worker, officers Matthews and Sinishtaj gave chase as Johnson rounded a corner and walked along Fifth Avenue in front of the landmark skyscraper.
    A security videotape from the scene shows several civilians including three sitting on a bench only a few feet away scattering as the officers opened fire.
    Police have determined that three people were struck by whole bullets two of which were removed from victims at the hospital and the rest were grazed "by fragments of some sort," Kelly said.
    Two women with leg wounds and a man with a wound to his buttocks required surgery and remained hospitalized Saturday. They were listed in stable condition.
    Both Matthews, 39, and Sinishtaj, 40, joined the nation's largest police department 15 years ago.
    Matthews had drawn attention this year by suing the New York Police Department, accusing his superiors of unfairly punishing him for not meeting arrest quotas. A judge threw out the complaint.
    The union representing the two officers didn't immediately respond to a message left seeking comment.
    The shooting didn't deter tourists from flocking to the Empire State Building as usual on Saturday.
    Patricia Flynn, 57, a retired schoolteacher, visited the building's peak with her elderly mother, who once worked in the skyscraper as a secretary.
    "But I didn't tell her what happened," said Flynn, adding that her mother was unaware of Friday's shooting. "And she really enjoyed the view."
    A group of 31 tourists from France held a meeting Friday night at their nearby hotel to decide whether to cancel their planned Empire State Building visit.
    "We were scared, and we thought it was a risk," said Catherine Krukar, 38, a teacher.
    But in the end, they went ahead with the visit, she said after descending from the observation tower,
    "We know it can happen anywhere, and we wanted to see the Empire State Building," Krukar said. "It was beautiful!"

    http://news.yahoo.com/nypd-empire-st...180844387.html


    WOW!!!!! clap clap Ray kelly you irish goblin how you gonna spin this one? your police force are unqualified robot bullies who almost killed nine tourists. are you kidding me???????

    both you and that POS mayor should kill yourselves. in 11 years you destroyed the best city in the world.

    i can only pray come monday an angry mob forms an expels you VIOLENTLY from your ivory tower.

  2. #2
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    To be fair, it says that most of the victims were hit by fragments and not the actual bullets.

  3. #3
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    you think it makes a difference to the victims?

  4. #4
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    I was just clarifying, nothing more. I'm not a big fan of the NYPD either.

  5. #5
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    I hope this means some discussion in the NYPD upper ranks. Having your officers emptying their clips into a crowd is not good police work. Either more range work or better situational awareness is in order. This is the kind of police work you'd expect from a couple of wanta-be rent a cops, not real police officers.

  6. #6
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    Meanwhile people think concealed weapons would help in violent situations.
    Last edited by flips333; 08-26-2012 at 09:25 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Meanwhile people think concealed weapons would help in violent situations.
    That's an unfair jab in this particular situation, and maybe unfair to excoriate the NYPD at this point. Suspect approached from behind turns with a weapon? Not much time to react, or make a decision. What would the response be if the officers do nothing and the suspect turns and uses that weapon? We get a body count from different bullets? I somehow think that outcome wouldn't be acceptable either.

    This is NY we're talking about here, pretty difficult to own a firearm in the city. It will be interesting to see how the firearm came into the possession of the suspect and if the suspect has mental health issues.

    Back to your comment, I haven't seen anything that anybody with a CCP was involved yet. Find a more appropriate incident for that comment....
    "An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a subject"

    Unknown

  8. #8
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    All nine people injured during a dramatic confrontation between police and a gunman outside the Empire State Building were wounded by gunfire from the two officers, police said Saturday, citing ballistics evidence.
    It looks like it may be time to disarm the police and arm the citizens in NY City.
    Bill Parcells: "You are what your record says you are."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Meanwhile people think concealed weapons would help in violent situations.
    Not more of this please...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by corralski View Post
    That's an unfair jab in this particular situation, and maybe unfair to excoriate the NYPD at this point. Suspect approached from behind turns with a weapon? Not much time to react, or make a decision. What would the response be if the officers do nothing and the suspect turns and uses that weapon? We get a body count from different bullets? I somehow think that outcome wouldn't be acceptable either.

    This is NY we're talking about here, pretty difficult to own a firearm in the city. It will be interesting to see how the firearm came into the possession of the suspect and if the suspect has mental health issues.

    Back to your comment, I haven't seen anything that anybody with a CCP was involved yet. Find a more appropriate incident for that comment....
    It's not an unfair jab. People keep saying if only we had more concealed weapons someone would stop this stuff. When actual trained professionals actually succeed in winging 9 people in the process it doesn't bode well for the Tom dick or Sarah who attempt to pull out a concealed weapon and engage in a firefight.

    This is ny we are talking about palace where millions of other Americans come.... Daily. From whatever laws they have. Gun control is not THE answer.... It's part of the the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brew Crew View Post
    Not more of this please...
    Reality problematic for your view point?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Meanwhile people think concealed weapons would help in violent situations.
    The people I know who CC have better aim and don't get panicky. Spray & pray cops are the worst kind.

    "I know one thing for sure; you won't be able to say that Braves fans don't care" Chipper Jones

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    It's not an unfair jab. People keep saying if only we had more concealed weapons someone would stop this stuff. When actual trained professionals actually succeed in winging 9 people in the process it doesn't bode well for the Tom dick or Sarah who attempt to pull out a concealed weapon and engage in a firefight.

    This is ny we are talking about palace where millions of other Americans come.... Daily. From whatever laws they have. Gun control is not THE answer.... It's part of the the answer.
    There are plenty of reports that support both sides, I am sure that you have seen both as have I. I don't think that any sane person is suggesting that we turn a busy place like NYC into a shooting gallery, I respect your concern there.

    I'm just saying that I would like to see more of the facts surrounding this incident such as the mental health of the suspect and how that gun came into his possession before I can assess the effectiveness of more gun control. While I believe that you come to your feelings about gun control honestly, there is not enough evidence available in this specific incident yet for you to make that comment and have me take it seriously....
    "An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a subject"

    Unknown

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Meanwhile people think concealed weapons would help in violent situations.
    They certainly can, and have.

    I mean, if your logic holds, why not take guns away from the cops? If guns can't help in violent situations, certainly you are against cops carrying guns, right?
    Last edited by gcoll; 08-26-2012 at 01:40 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    They certainly can, and have.

    I mean, if your logic holds, why not take guns away from the cops? If guns can't help in violent situations, certainly you are against cops carrying guns, right?
    Ideal but impractical given the sheer number of guns in the US. Most cops in other industrialized nations don't carry guns and do just fine.

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