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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by macc View Post
    Are you saying Harden only gets his assits from Durrant? You do realize when Harden goes in the game (typically with 5 min left in the first quarter) that Durrant and Westbrook are usually out of the game min or so after that and Harden is with the 2nd stringers, thats when he gets the majority of his assists. Basically what I'm saying is your incorrect in what you just said.

    Honestly all your points are invalid or simply opinions. I'm glad you're not our GM if you would pass up on Harden who is only 22 years old. Yes we're bad but you have to start building somewhere. If you have the chance to get a 23 yr old SG efficient stud then you do it. That's common sense. Not sure how many other players you think will be available that are better and are that young. We can't/won't be bad forever, we'll pick somone up eventually.
    Now lets go with your second paragraph. Harden had an efficient year. I have said that plenty of times. But the reason he is so God damn efficient is because the opposing teams he plays against don't game plan to SHUT HIM DOWN. You pick your poison with the Thunder, and thats usually between Durant and Westbrook. NOT Harden. Paul Pierce is the perfect example for this. He could not do anything on his own. He had good seasons, he was the number 1 option for the team, but could not lead them very far. They then got Garnett and Allen and become a championship team. Thats what it'd take for Harden.

    The reasons I wouldn't pick up Harden because he would not be able to put a team on his back and carry them to the playoffs year in and year out. He can't win you a championship being "The Man." That's not opinion, if you watch him as much as you say you do, he just doesn't have that in him. He is not like Dwayne Wade, where he will simply put the whole team on his shoulders and go. We are going to have a team FULL of youth, and then James Harden. Harden will bust his *** (McGrady style) grow frustrated of being bad to mediocre and then force a trade (McGrady style) all over again. We have to wait for our young guys to develop and have a team before we bring in that max contract player. You bring in The Guy to complete the team, not start the team. You start the team around a guy, he will grow impatient. "Oh man, this is so cool...I'm the go to guy on this team. Put them on my shoulders, we will win!" That will turn into "****, this is getting old, I need help. I can't do this on my own. I want out of here." Hmm we've had that happen to us TWICE in a row with T-Mac and Howard. Yea, lets do it again!
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    Now lets go with your second paragraph. Harden had an efficient year. I have said that plenty of times. But the reason he is so God damn efficient is because the opposing teams he plays against don't game plan to SHUT HIM DOWN. You pick your poison with the Thunder, and thats usually between Durant and Westbrook. NOT Harden. Paul Pierce is the perfect example for this. He could not do anything on his own. He had good seasons, he was the number 1 option for the team, but could not lead them very far. They then got Garnett and Allen and become a championship team. Thats what it'd take for Harden.

    The reasons I wouldn't pick up Harden because he would not be able to put a team on his back and carry them to the playoffs year in and year out. He can't win you a championship being "The Man." That's not opinion, if you watch him as much as you say you do, he just doesn't have that in him. He is not like Dwayne Wade, where he will simply put the whole team on his shoulders and go. We are going to have a team FULL of youth, and then James Harden. Harden will bust his *** (McGrady style) grow frustrated of being bad to mediocre and then force a trade (McGrady style) all over again. We have to wait for our young guys to develop and have a team before we bring in that max contract player. You bring in The Guy to complete the team, not start the team. You start the team around a guy, he will grow impatient. "Oh man, this is so cool...I'm the go to guy on this team. Put them on my shoulders, we will win!" That will turn into "****, this is getting old, I need help. I can't do this on my own. I want out of here." Hmm we've had that happen to us TWICE in a row with T-Mac and Howard. Yea, lets do it again!


    Who ever said anything about Harden having to do this on his own? It's quite obvious you need a complete team to contend. That's common sense. Saying you don't think he "has it in him" when he's only 22 years old and putting up crazy stats is crazy to me.

    So let me ask you this. Why don't you think he has it in him? Your ONLY reason you've noted is because he has Durrant and Westbrook. So therefore without those two stars you are basically saying Harden would be a scrub. Sorry I don't see it.

    Once again, let's use some common sense here. How many easy buckets does Durrant and Westbrook set Harden up for........hmmmmm, other then a few fast breaks...not much. Harden is a peremeter guy who creats his own shot and creates easy oppurtunities for his teammates. I don't see Durrant needling these passes to Harden giving him easy layins, same with Westbrook who is a scorer first then passer.

    You don't not sign a great player because you're "scared" you're not quite a contender yet and you don't want him to leave after his contract is up. That's stupid. Bottom line if somone is good enough and they belive in themselves then they will believe they can make you a contender.

    Besides Harden isn't a free agent until after next season. So if all goes well, we'll suck next year, get a top 5 pic in the draft (Shabazz possibly) and have enough money to sign Harden to a max contract. On top of that in the 2014 season we should have enough money to sign a 2nd max contract since the majority of our team will be on their rookie contracts.

    The way I see it, 2013 we could be a playoff team and 2014 we could be a contender. Or 2013 we'll continue to suck and in 2014 we'll have money to sign 2 max contract free agents.

    In any case I personally don't understand your hate for Harden. Your debate points are weak and hold no validity when it comes to Harden the player himself. You basically say him having Westbrook and Durrant make him a great player, eventhough these two other peremeter guys do very little to help Harden with his game. If anything they hinder it since the ball is out of Hardens hands to be the playmaker he's completely capable to be.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by macc View Post
    Who ever said anything about Harden having to do this on his own? It's quite obvious you need a complete team to contend. That's common sense. Saying you don't think he "has it in him" when he's only 22 years old and putting up crazy stats is crazy to me.

    So let me ask you this. Why don't you think he has it in him? Your ONLY reason you've noted is because he has Durrant and Westbrook. So therefore without those two stars you are basically saying Harden would be a scrub. Sorry I don't see it.

    Once again, let's use some common sense here. How many easy buckets does Durrant and Westbrook set Harden up for........hmmmmm, other then a few fast breaks...not much. Harden is a peremeter guy who creats his own shot and creates easy oppurtunities for his teammates. I don't see Durrant needling these passes to Harden giving him easy layins, same with Westbrook who is a scorer first then passer.

    You don't not sign a great player because you're "scared" you're not quite a contender yet and you don't want him to leave after his contract is up. That's stupid. Bottom line if somone is good enough and they belive in themselves then they will believe they can make you a contender.

    Besides Harden isn't a free agent until after next season. So if all goes well, we'll suck next year, get a top 5 pic in the draft (Shabazz possibly) and have enough money to sign Harden to a max contract. On top of that in the 2014 season we should have enough money to sign a 2nd max contract since the majority of our team will be on their rookie contracts.

    The way I see it, 2013 we could be a playoff team and 2014 we could be a contender. Or 2013 we'll continue to suck and in 2014 we'll have money to sign 2 max contract free agents.

    In any case I personally don't understand your hate for Harden. Your debate points are weak and hold no validity when it comes to Harden the player himself. You basically say him having Westbrook and Durrant make him a great player, eventhough these two other peremeter guys do very little to help Harden with his game. If anything they hinder it since the ball is out of Hardens hands to be the playmaker he's completely capable to be.
    First off, never called him a scrub. So maybe reading a bit better should be a priority for you.

    Secondly, Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook are both 23, a year older than Harden...and they are both well on their ways to being absolute studs in the league. They both showed up and played a pretty damn good NBA finals while Harden SUCKED. Oh take it easy on Harden he's 22...well the other two players who are 23 are just as young and showed up. Where was Harden? Where was this player who is soooooo damn good? Averaging 3.6 fouls per game which was identical to his amazing 3.6 assist per game as well. He had 2 guys there to help him and he flopped, hard. That tells me he does not have what it takes to man up and win a game, series for a team. Be the team leader. He is a 2nd fiddle kind of guy. If he's as good as you say he is, he would have taken the ball from Westbrook and took over the game. But that is not what he did. He played HIS ROLE and didn't even play that well.

    If Westbrook were a FA I would throw max money at him, and go after him hard. He WANTS to be the guy. He has the attitude for it. Harden doesn't. You can tell by their demenor on the court
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    First off, never called him a scrub. So maybe reading a bit better should be a priority for you.

    Secondly, Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook are both 23, a year older than Harden...and they are both well on their ways to being absolute studs in the league. They both showed up and played a pretty damn good NBA finals while Harden SUCKED. Oh take it easy on Harden he's 22...well the other two players who are 23 are just as young and showed up. Where was Harden? Where was this player who is soooooo damn good? Averaging 3.6 fouls per game which was identical to his amazing 3.6 assist per game as well. He had 2 guys there to help him and he flopped, hard. That tells me he does not have what it takes to man up and win a game, series for a team. Be the team leader. He is a 2nd fiddle kind of guy. If he's as good as you say he is, he would have taken the ball from Westbrook and took over the game. But that is not what he did. He played HIS ROLE and didn't even play that well.

    If Westbrook were a FA I would throw max money at him, and go after him hard. He WANTS to be the guy. He has the attitude for it. Harden doesn't. You can tell by their demenor on the court


    Once again another weak reason that holds no validity. The guy is 22 years old and didn't have an elite series, it happens to the best of them! Ummmm, didn't a guy named Lebron James have a rough series as well in Cleveland a few years back, and then again in Miami (first year in Miami). Ya he must not be elite either since his two finals appearances were not that great. We all saw how that played out.....

    Also his post season that you say "sucked" he still averaged 16.3 ppg as a 3rd option which is just barely below is regular season average (.5 ppg). So as a 3rd option averaging that, I think you're over exaggerating when you say his post season "sucked."
    Last edited by macc; 08-22-2012 at 12:33 PM.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by macc View Post
    Once again another weak reason that holds no validity. The guy is 22 years old and didn't have an elite series, it happens to the best of them! Ummmm, didn't a guy named Lebron James have a rough series as well in Cleveland a few years back, and then again in Miami (first year in Miami). Ya he must not be elite either since his two finals appearances were not that great. We all saw how that played out.....

    Also his post season that you say "sucked" he still averaged 16.3 ppg as a 3rd option which is just barely below is regular season average (.5 ppg). So as a 3rd option averaging that, I think you're over exaggerating when you say his post season "sucked."
    Again with the reading. I said Finals, not postseason. Whats your address or email account? I'm trying to sign you up for Hooked on Phonics.
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  6. #81
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    Also you said you would have no problem throwing max money at Westbrook but not Harden. Hmmmm, that's interesting. I love Westbrook but he doesn't have near the all around game Harden does. Also how many shoot first pg's have won rings in the entire history of the NBA? Yet that is somone you would give max money into instead of a guy who can shoot, shoot the 3 ball, has great handles, can get to the hoop, can draw fouls all day long and has great court vision to get his teammates involved.

    Once again, I'm glad you're not our GM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    Again with the reading. I said Finals, not postseason. Whats your address or email account? I'm trying to sign you up for Hooked on Phonics.


    Rap, let's be real. Your entire debate is weak. I'm saying Harden is going to be a stud and a top 2-3 sg in this league undenyably. You say he's not and you would rather take these sg's who have to take 18 shots per game to average 21 points. Your reasons against Harden are him having Durrant and Westbrook who's games don't compliment Hardens at all. Yet somone they make it soo much easier for him? I'm sorry, that's weak. Harden will just get better and on his own as a 1 or 2 option you'll get to see his full potential. Then you'll laugh at yourself for suggesting you would take Ellis or AI over Harden. This is going to happen. I'm done talking in circles and rejecting your weak rebuttles. Since they are all "what if" opinions anyways. When Durrant and Westbrook were out of games Harden would score 30 pts like it's noones business. If you can't see how a guy like Westbrook restricts Hardens full potential then you simply don't know basketball on a 5th graders level.

    You use weak reasons like "Harden doesn't have it." lol. I mean they are laughable, you can't back it up with any sort of stat so you just make up this "it" factor. Using your "it" factor, since you would take Johnson, Ellis, Ai over Harden, are you saying that they have this "it" factor? Because I don't see it in games considering they have done nothing in their entire NBA careers. Just using your own argument against you.

    So please shhhhhhhh.... you don't know what you're talking about on this topic.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by macc View Post
    Also you said you would have no problem throwing max money at Westbrook but not Harden. Hmmmm, that's interesting. I love Westbrook but he doesn't have near the all around game Harden does. Also how many shoot first pg's have won rings in the entire history of the NBA? Yet that is somone you would give max money into instead of a guy who can shoot, shoot the 3 ball, has great handles, can get to the hoop, can draw fouls all day long and has great court vision to get his teammates involved.

    Once again, I'm glad you're not our GM.
    Westbrook is a much better player than Harden. Westbrook and Rose are identical players, you wouldn't take Rose or Harden? If you say no to this, you're a dumbass and we shouldn't be talking. If you say yes to this, you're a hypocrite. So either way, you lose.

    Westbrook would be much easier to build around, and we already have some of the people to do so with.

    Westbrook/Nelson (sixth man)
    Afflalo/Redick (resign)

    That right there, is a very damn good combo. You have a play maker in Westbrook at the PG spot (like Rose) and you have a LEGIT SG in Afflalo. Good defender and an excellent 3 point shooter. As opposed to Harden being here, Afflalo would be a bench guy. That would be a complete waste, and Redick would be gone and we'd have Nelson starting.

    So lets say next year Westbrook were a FA instead of Harden and we got Westbrook.

    Westbrook/Nelson
    Afflalo/Redick
    Harkless/???
    Davis/Nicholson
    Zeller/O'Quinn

    That right there after one year of a rebuild and not only do you have a young/talented team, you have a playoff team. Now the following FA we would have the money to bring in another Max Player. Looking at our Guard spots, I'd say were set there. Depending on how Harkless plays his first two years we can go after Rudy Gay. If Harkless pans out, we can go after a PF/C.

    Pau/Bargnani/Gortat would all be great fits. Bargs is a great oustide player, which would be GREAT with Westbrook. Pau would also be a damn good player. But More than likely, again depending on Harkless' development, I'd go after Rudy Gay.

    Westbrook/Nelson
    Afflalo/Redick
    Gay/Harkless
    Davis/Nicholson
    Zeller/O'Quinn

    There you have Westbrook-1st option. Gay 2nd option. Afflalo 3rd Option. And then Davis and Zeller are both good options down low. Then you still have a stellar bench with Nelson, Redick, Harkless and Nicholson coming off of it. That is a legit playoff team for years to come.

    Now you want

    Nelson/Ish
    Harden/Afflalo
    Harkless/???
    Davis/Nicholson
    Zeller/O'Quinn

    Do you see a HUGE flaw? I do, and its our PG spot. Hardens a taller Nelson...uh oh. What do we do there? Where's the defense? Who do we have guarding the teams opposing best wing player with Afflalo now getting fairly low minutes playing behind Harden.

    You see where that becomes a problem?

    While I'm glad I'm not an NBA GM because that **** would be a nightmare...That wouldn't be too bad of a team 1 year removed losing your franchise player. Going forward (depending on development of the younger guys) you could have Westbrook/Afflalo/Harkless/Nicholson/Zeller...Now that is not bad at all.

    So yea, I would EASILY take Westbrook over Harden. Any day


    Quote Originally Posted by macc View Post
    Rap, let's be real. Your entire debate is weak. I'm saying Harden is going to be a stud and a top 2-3 sg in this league undenyably. You say he's not and you would rather take these sg's who have to take 18 shots per game to average 21 points. Your reasons against Harden are him having Durrant and Westbrook who's games don't compliment Hardens at all. Yet somone they make it soo much easier for him? I'm sorry, that's weak. Harden will just get better and on his own as a 1 or 2 option you'll get to see his full potential. Then you'll laugh at yourself for suggesting you would take Ellis or AI over Harden. This is going to happen. I'm done talking in circles and rejecting your weak rebuttles. Since they are all "what if" opinions anyways. When Durrant and Westbrook were out of games Harden would score 30 pts like it's noones business. If you can't see how a guy like Westbrook restricts Hardens full potential then you simply don't know basketball on a 5th graders level.

    You use weak reasons like "Harden doesn't have it." lol. I mean they are laughable, you can't back it up with any sort of stat so you just make up this "it" factor. Using your "it" factor, since you would take Johnson, Ellis, Ai over Harden, are you saying that they have this "it" factor? Because I don't see it in games considering they have done nothing in their entire NBA careers. Just using your own argument against you.

    So please shhhhhhhh.... you don't know what you're talking about on this topic.
    Well...70 people in the poll in the NBA forum agree with me...so shhhhh. You don't know what you're talking about....
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    Westbrook is a much better player than Harden. Westbrook and Rose are identical players, you wouldn't take Rose or Harden? If you say no to this, you're a dumbass and we shouldn't be talking. If you say yes to this, you're a hypocrite. So either way, you lose.

    Westbrook would be much easier to build around, and we already have some of the people to do so with.

    Westbrook/Nelson (sixth man)
    Afflalo/Redick (resign)

    That right there, is a very damn good combo. You have a play maker in Westbrook at the PG spot (like Rose) and you have a LEGIT SG in Afflalo. Good defender and an excellent 3 point shooter. As opposed to Harden being here, Afflalo would be a bench guy. That would be a complete waste, and Redick would be gone and we'd have Nelson starting.

    So lets say next year Westbrook were a FA instead of Harden and we got Westbrook.

    Westbrook/Nelson
    Afflalo/Redick
    Harkless/???
    Davis/Nicholson
    Zeller/O'Quinn

    That right there after one year of a rebuild and not only do you have a young/talented team, you have a playoff team. Now the following FA we would have the money to bring in another Max Player. Looking at our Guard spots, I'd say were set there. Depending on how Harkless plays his first two years we can go after Rudy Gay. If Harkless pans out, we can go after a PF/C.

    Pau/Bargnani/Gortat would all be great fits. Bargs is a great oustide player, which would be GREAT with Westbrook. Pau would also be a damn good player. But More than likely, again depending on Harkless' development, I'd go after Rudy Gay.

    Westbrook/Nelson
    Afflalo/Redick
    Gay/Harkless
    Davis/Nicholson
    Zeller/O'Quinn

    There you have Westbrook-1st option. Gay 2nd option. Afflalo 3rd Option. And then Davis and Zeller are both good options down low. Then you still have a stellar bench with Nelson, Redick, Harkless and Nicholson coming off of it. That is a legit playoff team for years to come.

    Now you want

    Nelson/Ish
    Harden/Afflalo
    Harkless/???
    Davis/Nicholson
    Zeller/O'Quinn

    Do you see a HUGE flaw? I do, and its our PG spot. Hardens a taller Nelson...uh oh. What do we do there? Where's the defense? Who do we have guarding the teams opposing best wing player with Afflalo now getting fairly low minutes playing behind Harden.

    You see where that becomes a problem?

    While I'm glad I'm not an NBA GM because that **** would be a nightmare...That wouldn't be too bad of a team 1 year removed losing your franchise player. Going forward (depending on development of the younger guys) you could have Westbrook/Afflalo/Harkless/Nicholson/Zeller...Now that is not bad at all.

    So yea, I would EASILY take Westbrook over Harden. Any day




    Well...70 people in the poll in the NBA forum agree with me...so shhhhh. You don't know what you're talking about....


    All those trade scenerios are "cute" and all but once again it's completely pointless. Westbrook is not a free agent and won't be for a long time. So why are you spending so much time on scearios that have 0% chance of happening? You are prob doing it because you've neglected to reply to any of my rebuttles and you keep going in different directions with his convo since you're original point is completely weak. So I don't blame you in going into a different direction with it.

    Would I take Harden over Rose? I can't answere that question honestly because I would like to see Harden as a #1 option first. Rose can def score, and is a good defender, but he's not a great passer (something you want out of your pg). In saying that I don't see a Rose lead Chicago doing anything in the playoffs. They won't get by Miami and they'll be lucky if they can beat Boston. So since you're so high on Rose, I don't see him doing any damage at all come playoff time.


    Also the poll is asking if you can build around Harden as a #1 option. That's not the debate we are having. I'm saying he will be a top 2-3 sg in this league undoubtably. I never said he has to be a #1 option. He has the skills to do it, but that doesn't mean he has to be. In todays nba you need 2-4 all star players to contend so whether he's the 1 guy or 2 guy, he's def somone you want to lead your team. With his age his max contract would only be around 13 mil per year, which isn't bad at all. You would def be getting value with him even with a max deal.

    So if you can find 70 people, or even 5 people who would pick Monta Ellis, EG, Johnson over Harden, I would love to see it, because ultimately that's the debate we are having.
    Last edited by macc; 08-22-2012 at 01:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by macc View Post
    All those trade scenerios are "cute" and all but once again it's completely pointless. Westbrook is not a free agent and won't be for a long time. So why are you spending so much time on scearios that have 0% chance of happening? You are prob doing it because you've neglected to reply to any of my rebuttles and you keep going in different directions with his convo since you're original point is completely weak. So I don't blame you in going into a different direction with it.

    Would I take Harden over Rose? I can't answere that question honestly because I would like to see Harden as a #1 option first. Rose can def score, and is a good defender, but he's not a great passer (something you want out of your pg). In saying that I don't see a Rose lead Chicago doing anything in the playoffs. They won't get by Miami and they'll be lucky if they can beat Boston. So since you're so high on Rose, I don't see him doing any damage at all come playoff time.
    I didn't list one trade scenario. So the fact I completely own your ***, you now say its pointless...I see...

    Thank you for pointing out that you are a complete and total fool by this comment. This argument is done
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

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    And for the record, I would rather shell out less more to Jrue Holliday, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague, or Eric Bledsoe than bring in James Harden. When you bring in one of the PG's you gain a duel 1-2 punch with them plus then you have Nelson coming off the bench (where he should be) and a more capable guy starting over him. All 4 of them are young, with Eric Bledsoe being the most likely player to pick up since the Clippers will more than likely bring Paul back.
    Last edited by rapjuicer06; 08-22-2012 at 01:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    Well that's false.

    You don't realize that Harden will be surrounded by rookies, 2, 3 year players...not Westbrook and Durant. If Harden is that guy, he will not be the same passer (and his passing is very overrated, especially by people in here...for what reason, I'm not sure). His efficiency would be terrible as the go to guy. 6'4 combo guard...doesn't sound appealing to me. Wouldn't want to build around that. He is a finishing piece, not a starting piece.

    This is where Im seeing you have trouble making factual statements. You continue to say things like "he won't make the same passes", "his efficiency will drop", ect. Can you back these statements up with why those things would change? You simply cannot make your case with hypotheticals and opinions. Macc and myself are going by other occurrences where when players are given more time and opportunities history shows stats improving, not to mention he is still young and developing like most players at 22 years of age. I didn't know that being a #1 makes you forget how to pass and when to take good shots. People keep saying he's not a true number 1 option, okay lets say he's not. Then why not bring in a great # 2 option for the max while he's available now instead of waiting to draft our #1 option then be scrambling to find a #2 three years from now. I can tell you now that when we will need a #2 option we will be paying that player the max anyways. Why does it matter what order you bring them in?

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    I didn't list one trade scenario. So the fact I completely own your ***, you now say its pointless...I see...

    Thank you for pointing out that you are a complete and total fool by this comment. This argument is done


    I didn't mean to say trade scenario but fa pickup scenario, nonetheless my point is still valid in that you have no point in doing them because Westbrook is not a free agent. K????? K.......


    You haven't owned anyone. At this point I don't even think you know what your stance on whatever you're trying to spit out. You quote me but yet don't break down a thing I say, you keep going off and comparing Harden to T Mac, then you start comparing Harden to Rose...it's like wtf are you talking about? You don't have a basis to your argument. My original point, which I keep going back to is Harden is > Johnson, Manu, EG, Ellis, and AI as an overall fit for Orlando and will very easily eclipse these players in the next year. That's been my entire point this whole time and you keep taking it in different directions that literally mean nothing.

    The only player that comes close to Harden is Johnson and yet he did less then Harden while playing more min and not nearly as efficient.

    You said you would rather have Ellis than Harden....good luck with that. Let's see how good the Bucks are this year with Ellis and Jennings in the backcourt. They'll be lucky to get the 7th seed in the playoffs.


    Then you bold my response on Rose and laugh...yet NO rebuttle....imagine that...I ask you, how many shoot first pg's have won titles in the history of the NBA....yet no rebuttle... Since you said Westbrook was a for sure max contract guy over Harden. Yet when I bring up points like this you say nothing. Sorry, but when you have nothing to say to actual facts thrown at you then it's YOU who is getting owned.

    I'm done with this convo, at this point we're just going in circles since you don't know how to stick to a particular topic or debate. Next you'll make Harden look bad by comparing him to MJ.

    I knew this convo was laughable once you said you would take Holliday, Teague, or Beldsoe over Harden...lol. Is it your goal for us to get a top 5 pick for the next 5 years straight or what? If a GM passes up on giving Harden a Max contract worth 13mil per year and instead goes after a Holliday for 9-11 mil per then he should be fired on the spot. Also we're talking about players to build on, why the hell would you sign guys like Teague and HOlliday to long contracts who are nothing but good role players?? We just spent an entire off season losing guys like J Rich who are good role players to clear up cap space and here you would want to sign guys that make us no better then we are. Keep rolling with that.
    Last edited by macc; 08-22-2012 at 03:46 PM.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by macc View Post
    Also you said you would have no problem throwing max money at Westbrook but not Harden. Hmmmm, that's interesting. I love Westbrook but he doesn't have near the all around game Harden does. Also how many shoot first pg's have won rings in the entire history of the NBA? Yet that is somone you would give max money into instead of a guy who can shoot, shoot the 3 ball, has great handles, can get to the hoop, can draw fouls all day long and has great court vision to get his teammates involved.

    Once again, I'm glad you're not our GM.
    Was just explaining why.
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinzler View Post
    So like most fans going through a complete rebuild... I have been checking out some future mock drafts and FA we could possibly acquire in upcoming off-seasons. Looking at the current talent on the roster going forward what do you feel the team will need to compete. I feel the magic could be fairly competitive in 3 years if we draft right and acquire some key FA's. What do you think?

    2014-15 Roster
    C: Nerlons Noel(via 2013 draft), Davis, Vucevic
    PF: Nicholson, O'Quinn
    SF: Harkless, Liggens, Eyenga
    SG: Harden(via FA), Afflalo, JJ
    PG: Andrew Harrison(via 2014 draft), Nelson

    Anyone else have any ideas?

    C- Nerlens Noel ( draft 2013 )

    Pf- Kevin Love - 2015 free agent - give him MAX

    Sf- Andrew Wiggins ( draft 2014 )

    Sg- Aaron Afflalo - if he doesnt stay, u can add Moe Harkless

    Pg- Kyrie Irving - 2015 free agent - give him MAX

    I know it's not an easy thing .. just wud like to have this starting line up

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