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Thread: Saints Defense

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGBREED View Post
    There wasn't 8 in the box being played until it was on short yardage plays! That what You are referring to is called a "Defensive Shift"! It's a disguise to give a false read to the offense, plus there wasn't a game plan or scheme for this game. Everything was basic football coverages in a 4-3 defense, mixing in packages that were taught thru camp.

    *AGAIN: There was NO 8 man fronts and there WON'T be any 8 man fronts!
    (only in short yardage/goal line plays will we see a 8 man front)


    -------------------
    Ignorance- is lacking knowledge
    Stupidity- is Lacking common sense; wit


    •We've all gone thru some type of Ignorance in our life due to lack of knowledge, but when we are told the truth and we've learn the truth, but we still insanely repeat the same mistake without change is just down right .....
    I know the difference I just dont take it so serious where I feel the need to go into simple details that Im sure most people up here already know.

    I know its a 4-3 formation been knew that been knew Spags runs a 4-3.

    But thinking creatively when I know they are routinely shift into a formation where the Safety is in da box. My opinion is we could commit more to it with the strength of our personnel the LBs and play 4 LBs at times especially if its Martez what I'm suggesting is that Martez can do what Harper can and likely cover better Id put money on it.

    If Will Smith can drop into coverage certainly we can trust Martez or other LBs to do that from the seocnd level which they wll do anyway. Its all situational. Tbere would be times where nickel and dime packages are ran out of the 4-4 LOOK its just gives us a better chance to disguise things blitzes coverages etc.

    You can keep getting hung up on semantics trying to act like Im stupid and you are Vince Lombardi

    Fact is routinely the Saftey is stepping up in our 4-3 defense. I'm not making this up the players said it and its right there on film.

    In my opinion its the right thing to do I just think we should do it more as our base formation with varying personnel packages and still shifting our formation.

    What I am suggesting is very simple and we are halfway doing it anyway.

    All Im saying is we try to commit more to stopping the run and creating additional pressure. And I believe the 4-4 as a base would maximize this.

    Get Martez in there more and play out of the same formation when Nickel and Dime personnel are on the field.
    LET'S ROLL SAINTS!!!

  2. #32
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    We can't have teams running the ball all over us and passing it. We really need to shut the door on one of these things.

    The Steelers routinely lead the league in defense not becuase they have outstanding cover personnel its because they create confusion out of that 3-4 and pressure. And they make sure you dont run on them. I see run stopping and pressure being our strengths now we should continue working these strengths.

    However Gabbert hung tough in that pocket under pressure and if that happens more often we wil get burned at times but pressure burst pipes or makes diamonds.

    Im still liking the defense so far though I think the Jax game we were in position we just missed tackles and Gabbert completed some tough throws he coudnt do it for 4 quarters we were on his ***
    LET'S ROLL SAINTS!!!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    We can't have teams running the ball all over us and passing it. We really need to shut the door on one of these things.

    The Steelers routinely lead the league in defense not becuase they have outstanding cover personnel its because they create confusion out of that 3-4 and pressure. And they make sure you dont run on them. I see run stopping and pressure being our strengths now we should continue working these strengths.

    However Gabbert hung tough in that pocket under pressure and if that happens more often we wil get burned at times but pressure burst pipes or makes diamonds.

    Im still liking the defense so far though I think the Jax game we were in position we just missed tackles and Gabbert completed some tough throws he coudnt do it for 4 quarters we were on his ***
    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    I know the difference I just dont take it so serious where I feel the need to go into simple details that Im sure most people up here already know.

    I know its a 4-3 formation been knew that been knew Spags runs a 4-3.

    But thinking creatively when I know they are routinely shift into a formation where the Safety is in da box. My opinion is we could commit more to it with the strength of our personnel the LBs and play 4 LBs at times especially if its Martez what I'm suggesting is that Martez can do what Harper can and likely cover better Id put money on it.

    If Will Smith can drop into coverage certainly we can trust Martez or other LBs to do that from the seocnd level which they wll do anyway. Its all situational. Tbere would be times where nickel and dime packages are ran out of the 4-4 LOOK its just gives us a better chance to disguise things blitzes coverages etc.

    You can keep getting hung up on semantics trying to act like Im stupid and you are Vince Lombardi

    Fact is routinely the Saftey is stepping up in our 4-3 defense. I'm not making this up the players said it and its right there on film.

    In my opinion its the right thing to do I just think we should do it more as our base formation with varying personnel packages and still shifting our formation.

    What I am suggesting is very simple and we are halfway doing it anyway.

    All Im saying is we try to commit more to stopping the run and creating additional pressure. And I believe the 4-4 as a base would maximize this.

    Get Martez in there more and play out of the same formation when Nickel and Dime personnel are on the field.
    OH My Gawd! Im'ma say this and i'm thru...
    First, I am not trying to show you up bro, but you're wrong!

    PITTSBURGH
    The AFC North is a "Physical Running/Defensive Division" that plays outside/high grass football. (look at their colleges in the BIG 10)

    *Never compare the 3-4 defense to the 4-3 defense, its two different philosophies.

    [VERY VERY Basic info]

    The 34/3-4 defense is used to contain the outside against the run, will generating a pass Rush with their OLB's normally having zone coverages on the back end of the secondary, especially in Zone Blitzing. GREAT Linebacker play is a Must, which cause for LB's taking up most of your roster spots on a 53 man roster. Giving a 8man look, 90% of zone is played in the secondary, but you can get a GREAT Pass Rush from its exotic Blitzing schemes.
    {CON: A 3-4 Defense always have trouble defending the Spread Offense bcuz lack of CB's on the 53 man roster and LB's can't cover WR's!}

    The 43/4-3 defense is used to contain the inside with your DT's(allowing the MLB to make tkles sideline to sideline), while generating a Pass Rush from its DLine(Great DE's with PassRushing skills are a must) which allows them to drop more guys into coverage to defend against a Spread Offense. Transfering into Nickel & Dime Defense's will be easier due to the Teams Higher number of CB's that are on the 53 man roster due to its Base 4-3 personnal. Zone OR Man coverage could be mixed into a Game Plan depending on the other teams Scouting Report! Zone Blitzing can also be generated from the 43, which can cause mass confusion on the OLine when the Def. Coordinator has played Man Coverage for 3Qtrs, generating pressure with his Front Four and Blitzing while still playing Man Coverage on the back end in the Secondary!
    {CON: without a MLB or the DT's protecting that MLB or DE's getting up field, outside runs will be plentifull, which will open up the flood gates for Playactions, Delays, Traps, and Screens<when the defense tries to blitz(run or pass) after moving 8 in the Box bcuz the Running game has forced the defense into playing closer to the line of scrimmage focusing on the run.}





    NEW ORLEANS SAINTS
    The NFC South is a "High Flying Spread Offense Division" with most games played in the Dome or grass thats built for speed. (Look at the SEC)
    <Would post more, battery low>

    FYI
    Our division is a Passing Division and we have a Quick Striking offense that puts up alot of points every Sunday. Teams may try and slow our offense down by running the ball at first but in the end, ALL TEAMS WILL HAVE TO PASS THE DAMN BALL TO KEEP UP WITH THE SAINTS! And if a team is throwing the ball playing catch up, it means that they aren't running the ball, which helps out our RUN DEFENSE #s! Stopping the Run should be the last thing on our minds if drew Brees got us up by 14pts. Teams will start throwing the ball all over the field, and that my friend will open things up for BIG Plays in that Secondary, from our Pass Rushing Front Four -OR- our Zone Blitzing by dropping DE's!

    #ItsAllGood
    Last edited by BIGBREED; 08-20-2012 at 03:42 PM.
    I officially now have a "Stephen" following me!


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  4. #34
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    The only comparison Im making is you can sustain an elite Defense using 4 LBs and the Steelers are an example of this. 3-4 4-3 4-4 not relevant the relevance is the increased LB talent getting utilized.

    Difference is that we have lighter faster personnel to use as LBs Martez especially.

    Pressure is our biggest complaint from last season bringing everyone up allows us to increase that pressure which in turn helps our Pass defense and puts personnel in run stopping position so we dont get gashed by run and pass.

    A strong front 8 is better than a strong secondary. Any NFL QB given enough time will complete a pass thats why pressure is a must.

    Thats why we are walking that Safety up.

    There isnt a lot of difference in what I am saying and what we are doing anyway basically using Harper like a LB. I think we should do more of it with Harper and other LBs subbing in as well as making this our base Defense again again keeping in mind nickle and dime personnel can be ran out of a FO FO.

    Brees put pressure on teams to score. Teams typically score more and produce more passing than they do running even the best defenses have this problem.

    Its easier and more likely to to decrease your run defense numbers than pass ideally you want to do both.

    But we can definitely improve our run D and tackling and use pressure to help our pass defense. Rather than dropping personnel and opening ourselves more to run and decreasing pressure which allows the pass defense to be even more exposed.
    LET'S ROLL SAINTS!!!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    The only comparison Im making is you can sustain an elite Defense using 4 LBs and the Steelers are an example of this. 3-4 4-3 4-4 not relevant the relevance is the increased LB talent getting utilized.

    Difference is that we have lighter faster personnel to use as LBs Martez especially.

    Pressure is our biggest complaint from last season bringing everyone up allows us to increase that pressure which in turn helps our Pass defense and puts personnel in run stopping position so we dont get gashed by run and pass.

    A strong front 8 is better than a strong secondary. Any NFL QB given enough time will complete a pass thats why pressure is a must.

    Thats why we are walking that Safety up.

    There isnt a lot of difference in what I am saying and what we are doing anyway basically using Harper like a LB. I think we should do more of it with Harper and other LBs subbing in as well as making this our base Defense again again keeping in mind nickle and dime personnel can be ran out of a FO FO.

    Brees put pressure on teams to score. Teams typically score more and produce more passing than they do running even the best defenses have this problem.

    Its easier and more likely to to decrease your run defense numbers than pass ideally you want to do both.

    But we can definitely improve our run D and tackling and use pressure to help our pass defense. Rather than dropping personnel and opening ourselves more to run and decreasing pressure which allows the pass defense to be even more exposed.
    First of all, Martez Wilson is a Damn DEFENSIVE END now!

    Secondly, a frickin 8 man front is only used against the RUN!

    Thirdly, PLEASE learn the strategies of pressuring the QB in football! Defenses change their packages by what packages personnel the offense coordinator sends in the game(3TE -or- 4WR -or- 3WR/1TE/1RB -OR-

    lets take the Saints offensive sets of 2WR/2RB/1TE. I'll give you a "PRO SET" pre snap look with 2RB's in the backfield.....and you'll be in your 4-4 def. with all your LB's!
    1.)I'll point out your MIKE/MLB
    2.)I'll shift my offense from a Pro-set to a "4WR & 1RB" with Sproles & Graham on the outsides(not using the term FLANKER -OR- X, Im being very simple) and Colston & Lance in the slots!
    **That formation would force your LB's to cover my RB & TE like CB's on a island
    ....and the LB's that don't move are blitzing! #BlitzMan

    .....and don't play ZONE! And don't give me "I'll disquise it" crap bcuz as soon as I'd shift Sproles & Graham to the outside and none of your LB's move...I'll know IT'S A ZONE! And I'll tear your azz up with Drew Brees QBing against your lil 8man front of zone Blitzing bcuz you defense would be OUT OF POSITION TO COVER AGAINST A SPREAD OFFENSE! and LAWD, I HAVEN'T EVEN RAN TRIPS LEFT or TRIPS RIGHT

    **Your 8Man front goes against every football theory ever created since the 85 BEARS! That Defense was a once in a lifetime thing and it was perfect for the 80's and its I-Formation sets -OR- its basic 3WR Shot Gun sets with stationary QB's and its Slow azz 4.6 WR's! That defense wouldn't stand a chance in "Todays NFL" of NO Hand Checking and its 4.3 offensive Players w/ very Mobile QB's{and they're running 4.5's}

    BOTTOM LINE:
    The schit just doesn't make sense!
    Last edited by BIGBREED; 08-20-2012 at 07:29 PM.
    I officially now have a "Stephen" following me!


    From my Stephen-
    "Ya damn near ran one of the most ride or die for the Saint fans on here. But that's ok, all that gon change!"
    "I'm gon get with ya every time u try to disrespect other Saints fans!"
    "I wish he opens his mouth!"
    "It's a new day Saints Forum!"

    http://youtu.be/7AjWj91B7fo

    Time Will Tell My Accuracy's
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  6. #36
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    First of all, Martez Wilson is a Damn LINEBACKER he just converted to DE!

    Secondly, a frickin 8 man front is used against the RUN and can against the pass! In our current 4-3 that Safety that routinely steps up in da box in Spags 4-3 doesnt mean he isnt in coverage. Nickle and dimes coverages are ran out of a FO FO easily.

    Thirdly,

    Martez or Casillas can do the same man and zone coverages/blitzes that Harper can. Maybe I can say this clearer Harper is a 4th LB!!! Now when he steps up in da box what do you have? With the LB injuries we have if they continue Martez and Harper Casillas will play together at the second level of the defense. Whether Martez is a DE or not is irrelevant because our DEs will drop into coverage in this defense.

    Dropping 3 LBs into coverage with Harper is the same as dropping 4 LBs into coverage while rushing front 4. Anybody even Cam Jordan can drop into coverage in Spags defense yet you are soooooo convinced adding one LB is soooo stupid but we are playing 8 in da box (Harper) blitzing and dropping DEs in coverage anyway

    Additonally if a team goes 4 or more WRs we go nickle to dime personnel as needed anyway whether we are running FO FO or 4-3 doesnt matter. However with a zone defense that Spags creates those 3 LBs plus Harper makes 4 LBs have assignments anyway just like in a FO FO each LB would have assigned Zones after a strong stand inside of 5 yards knocking those WRs around.


    LBs are the strength of the NFL folks! If you look at which position on Defense has the most talented players in the NFL its LB.


    No one believes me so here is Spags direct quote

    Steve Spanuolo
    "Again, the more linebackers that you can have in your group that can play more than one position, the better off I think you’re going to be"


    As the season goes on we will find the more LBs we play the better.

    Its all about the front 8!!!!
    LET'S ROLL SAINTS!!!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    First of all, Martez Wilson is a Damn LINEBACKER he just converted to DE!

    Secondly, a frickin 8 man front is used against the RUN and can against the pass! In our current 4-3 that Safety that routinely steps up in da box in Spags 4-3 doesnt mean he isnt in coverage. Nickle and dimes coverages are ran out of a FO FO easily.

    Thirdly,

    Martez or Casillas can do the same man and zone coverages/blitzes that Harper can. Maybe I can say this clearer Harper is a 4th LB!!! Now when he steps up in da box what do you have? With the LB injuries we have if they continue Martez and Harper Casillas will play together at the second level of the defense. Whether Martez is a DE or not is irrelevant because our DEs will drop into coverage in this defense.

    Dropping 3 LBs into coverage with Harper is the same as dropping 4 LBs into coverage while rushing front 4. Anybody even Cam Jordan can drop into coverage in Spags defense yet you are soooooo convinced adding one LB is soooo stupid but we are playing 8 in da box (Harper) blitzing and dropping DEs in coverage anyway

    Additonally if a team goes 4 or more WRs we go nickle to dime personnel as needed anyway whether we are running FO FO or 4-3 doesnt matter. However with a zone defense that Spags creates those 3 LBs plus Harper makes 4 LBs have assignments anyway just like in a FO FO each LB would have assigned Zones after a strong stand inside of 5 yards knocking those WRs around.


    LBs are the strength of the NFL folks! If you look at which position on Defense has the most talented players in the NFL its LB.


    No one believes me so here is Spags direct quote

    Steve Spanuolo
    "Again, the more linebackers that you can have in your group that can play more than one position, the better off I think you’re going to be"


    As the season goes on we will find the more LBs we play the better.

    Its all about the front 8!!!!
    This is a damn shame! Hear all this time, i actually thought a part of you was clowning, but honestly you don't have a fricking clue of what you are talking about and you lack the general understanding of what you are watching in a NFL game! Get off of that Madden on XBox and lookup TOM LANDRY, study up on him and get a lil knowledge dude.
    {lol, this is a joke? right?}

    ...oh and FYI,
    what Spags is talking about was a Linebacker being able to play multiple positions at the 3 Linebacker spots, which are SAM/MIKE/WILL in a base 4-3!
    -And in a Nickle defense, there's only 2LB's..not 3 as you stated! The base nickle package is 4DL/2LB/5DB, and you can't shift from a 4-4 base defense into a Nickel Defense. REALLY, If you see me running my 2RB package of Sproles & Pierre on to the field, that should signal to you that I'm Passing and you should counter that with a Nickel Package, which still takes away that Bullschit azz 4-4 scheme of yours!


    I'm done for real! I'm not wasting my time on a ROOK<here I'm trying to help you out, stopping you from sounding foolish and yet you're going on & on, and on top of that, trying to tell me I'M WRONG!
    ROTFLMAO....You can have at it bruh, Preach your 4-4!

    HEY, LOOK DOWN
    \/
    Last edited by BIGBREED; 08-20-2012 at 10:07 PM.
    I officially now have a "Stephen" following me!


    From my Stephen-
    "Ya damn near ran one of the most ride or die for the Saint fans on here. But that's ok, all that gon change!"
    "I'm gon get with ya every time u try to disrespect other Saints fans!"
    "I wish he opens his mouth!"
    "It's a new day Saints Forum!"

    http://youtu.be/7AjWj91B7fo

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGBREED View Post
    This is a damn shame! Hear all this time, i actually thought a part of you was clowning, but honestly you don't have a fricking clue of what you are talking about and you lack the general understanding of what you are watching in a NFL game! Get off of that Madden on XBox and lookup TOM LANDRY, study up on him and get a lil knowledge dude.
    {lol, this is a joke? right?}

    ...oh and FYI,
    what Spags is talking about was a Linebacker being able to play multiple positions at the 3 Linebacker spots, which are SAM/MIKE/WILL in a base 4-3!
    -And in a Nickle defense, there's only 2LB's..not 3 as you stated! The base nickle package is 4DL/2LB/5DB, and you can't shift from a 4-4 base defense into a Nickel Defense. REALLY, If you see me running my 2RB package of Sproles & Pierre on to the field, that should signal to you that I'm Passing and you should counter that with a Nickel Package, which still takes away that Bullschit azz 4-4 scheme of yours!


    I'm done for real! I'm not wasting my time on a ROOK<here I'm trying to help you out, stopping you from sounding foolish and yet you're going on & on, and on top of that, trying to tell me I'M WRONG!
    ROTFLMAO....You can have at it bruh, Preach your 4-4!

    HEY, LOOK DOWN
    \/
    Maybe reading the Wiki is easier for you to undestand anyway when you look at our SS Roman Harper and what he does and our personnel the scheme fits the personnel.

    And it doesnt matter what you say its what we are doing anyway running a
    4-3 but dropping the SS in da box he is a LB/SS hybrid I just wish we'd let Wilson do the same thing and with LBs like Casillas a 4-4 works.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%934_defense

    Exactly Spags is saying the more LBs he has to play LB 4-3 roles the better and thats exactly my point more LBs to play a LB role is better cause its a core strength of the NFL and the 4-4 maximizes this for us.

    Especially since we are doing this anyway with Harper Its not so far fetched as you are making it. Not sure why. Even Jenkins is dropping into the box too.
    LET'S ROLL SAINTS!!!

  9. #39
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    Can't wait to see how the Defense looks against Houston who will offer a good test for pass and run.
    LET'S ROLL SAINTS!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    Can't wait to see how the Defense looks against Houston who will offer a good test for pass and run.
    I would expect us to struggle. Great offense, plus 3 key LBs out, Ruud will have to adjust to starting and get used to the system. Humber will probably call plays at MLB but he is still a backup. Also Greer still injured.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by saintsfan33 View Post
    I would expect us to struggle. Great offense, plus 3 key LBs out, Ruud will have to adjust to starting and get used to the system. Humber will probably call plays at MLB but he is still a backup. Also Greer still injured.
    You're most like right but I like Spags thinking he may be able to put these guys in position so well they cant help but succeed.

    Then again you do need some talent to make any scheme work no matter how good it is. This will be interesting. To add insult to injury literally I peaked in on a Rams game and our former leading tackler Jo Lun Dunbar was balling!
    LET'S ROLL SAINTS!!!

  12. #42
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    At the rate players on D are going down, Spags may quit, then we can give UD the job! FO-FO, BABY!

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaj View Post
    At the rate players on D are going down, Spags may quit, then we can give UD the job! FO-FO, BABY!
    Yea and guess who I'd hire for my LB Coach

    BigB I'd be like you will play 4 LBs against 5 WRs and you will make it work
    LET'S ROLL SAINTS!!!

  14. #44
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    Another thing we need to consider is moving Martez back to LB
    Casillas Shanle Martez

    would be my 3 at this point
    LET'S ROLL SAINTS!!!

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underdogz∞ View Post
    Yea and guess who I'd hire for my LB Coach

    BigB I'd be like you will play 4 LBs against 5 WRs and you will make it work
    I would happily except and my only instructions would be, at the snap, All Three LBers go hit the schit out of Underdogz! The hardest hitter gets paid....#BountyGate2.0

    •BIGBREED's Fo-Fo•
    Last edited by BIGBREED; 08-21-2012 at 11:37 PM.
    I officially now have a "Stephen" following me!


    From my Stephen-
    "Ya damn near ran one of the most ride or die for the Saint fans on here. But that's ok, all that gon change!"
    "I'm gon get with ya every time u try to disrespect other Saints fans!"
    "I wish he opens his mouth!"
    "It's a new day Saints Forum!"

    http://youtu.be/7AjWj91B7fo

    Time Will Tell My Accuracy's
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