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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewmania View Post
    reasons why its a bait thread

    1. kobe bryant advanced stats arent even up there

    I've seen kobe go 3/20 tons of nights so im pretty sure his is bad as well

    but yeah hes not a top offensive player either huh?
    I didn't include Kobe, because he was a chucker this year. He was not an efficient basketball player and in my opinion had one of the worst seasons of his career.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYkillaPriest View Post
    you just compared Melos worst year to most of the others best season. Melo needs a good PG in order to be efficient because if everybody knows that your going to shoot its easy to be guarded. Nobody is saying Melo is perfect and had he put up better numbers we would have been a better team.

    With Felton and Kidd I expect both Melo and Amare to be two of the best teams in the league.
    I included his two years past as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by NY007 View Post
    I'm not a guy who lives and dies by the numbers, specially stats that go this deep. Here's what I know, Melo is one of if not the best offensive player in the game. He's a good rebounder and his defense has improved. Most importantly of all he's the most clutch player in the game. He's what 2 game winning shots behind Kobe and Kobe basically has double the amount of shot attempts.

    The truth about Melo is he's the best player we've had since Ewing and just like Ewing he constantly gets criticized. Media always twist **** and they make him to look out like a bad guy and people buy into it just like Ewing. When will you guys realize all the media hates Dolan, and he deserves it but his employees do not.

    If anything it's Stat that deserves a lot of the criticism, not Melo yet Melo is always the target.
    Melo is a very clutch player, no doubt about that. But I made this thread to inform about his game because some people here seem to think that he's the number 1 offensive player in the game, and others refuse to see his flaws.

    Quote Originally Posted by javsvt View Post
    Most threads are negative about Melo, so we will put it next to the rest of them.
    Not negative. Informative. Maybe if you read it without your homer shades you'd see that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weezy View Post
    Hmmm in all honestly, to make better comparisons I think you need to compare to other players playing the same position as Melo. Also last year was his worst season in his whole NBA career.....same goes for Stat.
    I used his last three years, and I added Pierce, LBJ, and KD to that list of compared players.

    Quote Originally Posted by 29$jersey View Post
    No...

    It's a summary of why despite his titles as Clutch and the most offensively gifted offensive player in the NBA he is his own detriment.

    I know a lot don't like to solely base their beliefs on players from facts but those numbers show why Melo isn't an elite player. Why can we have discussions about what Amar'e needs to do to actually be of help to this team by rebounding and playing defense but saying Melo needs to be smarter on offense is ridiculous?

    All the numbers show is why he is his own enemy and should be producing much better than he has shown.
    This is a good post. Summarizes what I was trying to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheetos185 View Post
    2010 and 2009 wasnt his best season show his stats when he played with another top 10 talent like AI
    Want me to include Dirk's, LeBron's, and Pierce's best years to make him look really bad? Pierce and Dirk both had down years and still were more efficient than Melo.


    Quote Originally Posted by NYKnicksAllDay View Post
    Question for you guys who know more about advanced stats. What is a good TS%? Average? Below average?
    Average is probably around 55%. For someone who takes a ton of shots though, Melo should be above average like the guys I posted.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by seikou8 View Post
    yup melo is the goat excuse after excuse knicks fans kiss his *** do we give amare this excuses do give anyone esle no melo is 12-15 player who get hot like no one can but can jack up shots more than anyone.melo has it all but ha never put it together,sorry talent doesn't make a top 10 player results do.
    Lol Did he offer you ice cream and then said SIKE when you was going to take it ! Lol Dude the hate is not that serious lol
    Media: Carmelo thinks Jeremy Lin is a good guy

    Lin Fans: You mean to tell me he isn't a GOD!!!

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by roshan3ai View Post
    Not negative. Informative. Maybe if you read it without your homer shades you'd see that.
    No shades, just a fan of a team. You are posting numbers that really are not important. What your goal is trying to look like a basketball analyst, really you are just copying stats that we all know. Melo wasnt a efficient player this year, or for a career for that matter. He does need help, so whats the point of this thread? Who are you directing this thread to, the very few fans that call him great?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoMeFavors View Post
    I honestly dont think Knicks are good but thats me, maybe thats cause I dont watch them they are boring to me and Nets already beat them.
    Classic DMF.....

    Quote Originally Posted by waveycrockett View Post
    We have our foot on the Bulls throats with a gun pointed between their eyes. Now we are about to pull the trigger.
    Classic wavey......

  4. #79
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    Baiting at its worst......who cares about these " inaccurate" " flawed " numbers when your second best scoring player on the team has completely lost his jump shot...3rd best player only plays defense and is a suspect rebounder..and everyone else is just hoping their shots will fall...
    Come on... you'd probably find lebron with those same exact numbers in a few of his Cleveland days..and what do they mean???
    Nothing...bundled up numbers to make a player look " inefficient" on a team you represent means what???
    Mello is mello...never has and never will be someone your looking for...he is who he is ...and I'd rather have mello than wade bosh and James...you know why? Let stat stay mediocre... let the bench just be enough to win 50 games .. let Tyson and camby anchor the defense...
    Because if he is this me me me player that doesn't pass and with all these stupid out of season stats... and mello wins a ring for us ...then he would have done what James and wade and bosh couldn't do .
    And that is solely bring a championship to new York by himself.....

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by javsvt View Post
    No shades, just a fan of a team. You are posting numbers that really are not important. What your goal is trying to look like a basketball analyst, really you are just copying stats that we all know. Melo wasnt a efficient player this year, or for a career for that matter. He does need help, so whats the point of this thread? Who are you directing this thread to, the very few fans that call him great?
    Its far from very few fans. You can look back and see posters call other posters idiots and haters. And no, not everyone knows this, because even now people are saying it doesn't matter and your just a hater.

    What you are doing, what many are doing is using the same divisive tools used in politics. Your claiming that there are 2 sides, picking one, and claiming its under attack.

    What I believe he is trying to do is say, hey look, this is what some people are trying to say that are on the other side of the Melo love, lets debate this as apposed to ignore facts and just doing everything your doing by trying to turn it into your side vs their side.

    He is a fan of the Knicks, and will cheer when they win. Just because he disagrees with your point of view on this doesn't make you a better fan.

    And whats the point of posting this?? We are on an internet forum dedicated to the Knicks. What do you think the point is. To spark a debate about the Knicks. And maybe do so in a better way then calling someone a hater or that someone is on player X's jock.

  6. #81
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    I am not even gonna post on this thread anymore
    Its rediculous how ppl on here rather look at unproven
    stats and not exactly the real facts.

    So im just gonna say this and leave .
    If it wasn't for melo, then team usa wouldn't be undefeated
    and also name one player on team usa who scores
    37+ points in 14:27 seconds, if they are better offensively
    Than he is smh

  7. #82
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    Ok, I think no one intelligent is gonna debate it. We know what the numbers are, we know he needs help. What do you want these young fans that call him great to find stats, you know that's not gonna happen. So, like I said, there is no debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoMeFavors View Post
    I honestly dont think Knicks are good but thats me, maybe thats cause I dont watch them they are boring to me and Nets already beat them.
    Classic DMF.....

    Quote Originally Posted by waveycrockett View Post
    We have our foot on the Bulls throats with a gun pointed between their eyes. Now we are about to pull the trigger.
    Classic wavey......

  8. #83
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    The problem is that some of you guys who constantly bash Melo think that those of us who don't think he is the worlds greatest. There are very very few posters who actually believe that. We think he is a very good offensive player and we believe that he doesn't deserve some of the random BS that a lot of fans give him. Some of you go out of your way to bash him. Every word out of your mouth is negative in regards to him.

    Don't confuse us defending him/saying good things about him as thinking he is the best to play to ever play the game.

  9. #84
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    Plain and simple, go to Lbj, KD, and whoever else that
    You like and tell them to score 37+ points with ease
    in 14 mins and see the answer you get, if they say they probably can't
    Do it with ease then at least ask them to hit 10 3's
    With ease, then talk to me about who's better offensively

  10. #85
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    Load of Bs about Melo being selfish. Lemme pull up some stats.

    Nuggets 2008-2009 Team stats

    Code:
    Rk	Player	        Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
    1	Carmelo Anthony	24	66	66	34.5	8.1	18.3	.443	1.0	2.6	.371	5.6	7.1	.793	1.6	5.2	6.8	3.4	1.1	0.4	3.0	3.0	22.8
    2	Allen Iverson	33	3	3	41.0	6.0	13.3	.450	0.7	2.7	.250	6.0	8.3	.720	1.0	1.7	2.7	6.7	1.0	0.3	3.3	1.0	18.7
    3	Chauncey Billups	32	77	77	35.3	5.2	12.5	.420	2.1	5.1	.410	5.3	5.8	.913	0.4	2.6	3.0	6.4	1.2	0.2	2.2	2.1	17.9
    4	J.R. Smith	23	81	18	27.7	5.2	11.7	.446	2.2	5.6	.397	2.5	3.4	.754	0.5	3.1	3.7	2.8	1.0	0.2	1.9	2.3	15.2
    5	Nene Hilario	26	77	76	32.6	5.6	9.2	.604	0.0	0.1	.200	3.5	4.8	.723	2.4	5.4	7.8	1.4	1.2	1.3	1.9	3.6	14.6
    6	Kenyon Martin	31	66	66	32.0	4.8	9.8	.491	0.2	0.6	.368	1.8	3.0	.604	1.2	4.8	6.0	2.0	1.5	1.1	1.6	3.0	11.7
    7	Linas Kleiza	24	82	7	22.2	3.5	7.9	.447	1.1	3.3	.326	1.8	2.5	.725	1.1	2.9	4.0	0.8	0.4	0.2	1.0	1.9	9.9
    8	Chris Andersen	30	71	1	20.6	2.3	4.1	.548	0.0	0.1	.200	1.8	2.5	.718	2.3	3.9	6.2	0.4	0.6	2.5	1.0	2.5	6.4
    9	Dahntay Jones	28	79	71	18.1	1.9	4.3	.458	0.1	0.2	.647	1.4	1.9	.728	0.7	1.4	2.1	1.0	0.6	0.2	0.9	2.5	5.4
    10	Anthony Carter	33	78	5	22.9	2.1	4.9	.433	0.3	1.1	.239	0.7	1.0	.731	0.5	2.1	2.6	4.7	1.2	0.2	2.0	1.8	5.3
    11	Renaldo Balkman	24	53	10	14.7	2.1	3.7	.558	0.0	0.1	.286	0.8	1.2	.646	1.6	2.2	3.8	0.6	0.9	0.4	0.7	1.8	5.0
    12	Johan Petro	23	27	10	8.0	1.0	2.3	.429	0.0	0.0	.000	0.2	0.5	.429	0.6	1.8	2.3	0.4	0.1	0.4	0.5	2.1	2.2
    13	Chucky Atkins	34	14	0	8.2	0.6	1.9	.333	0.4	1.2	.294	0.3	0.3	1.000	0.0	0.4	0.4	2.0	0.1	0.1	0.7	0.4	1.9
    14	Sonny Weems	22	12	0	4.6	0.7	2.1	.320	0.0	0.3	.000	0.3	0.7	.375	0.0	0.3	0.3	0.3	0.1	0.0	0.5	0.7	1.6
    15	Jason Hart	30	11	0	3.3	0.5	0.9	.500	0.0	0.2	.000	0.3	0.4	.750	0.1	0.3	0.4	0.5	0.0	0.0	0.3	0.4	1.2
    16	Juwan Howard	35	3	0	7.3	0.3	0.7	.500	0.0	0.0		0.0	0.0		0.3	1.0	1.3	0.7	0.3	0.3	0.0	1.3	0.7
    17	Cheikh Samb	24	6	0	4.0	0.3	2.2	.154	0.0	0.2	.000	0.0	0.0		0.3	1.2	1.5	0.2	0.3	0.8	0.3	0.7	0.7
    That team had "Ball stopper" Melo, yet they had 5 players (not including AI) averaging 10+ points per game. Not only that, melo averaged 3.4 assists per game. Clearly everyone was being involved in "bully ball".

    Now lets look at OKC's number's this year

    Code:
    Rk	Player	        Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
    1	Kevin Durant	23	66	66	38.6	9.7	19.7	.496	2.0	5.2	.387	6.5	7.6	.860	0.6	7.4	8.0	3.5	1.3	1.2	3.8	2.0	28.0
    2	Russell Westbrook	23	66	66	35.3	8.8	19.2	.457	0.9	3.0	.316	5.2	6.3	.823	1.5	3.1	4.6	5.5	1.7	0.3	3.6	2.2	23.6
    3	James Harden	22	62	2	31.4	5.0	10.1	.491	1.8	4.7	.390	5.0	6.0	.846	0.5	3.6	4.1	3.7	1.0	0.2	2.2	2.4	16.8
    4	Serge Ibaka	22	66	66	27.2	4.0	7.4	.535	0.0	0.0	.333	1.2	1.8	.661	2.9	4.6	7.5	0.4	0.5	3.7	1.2	2.7	9.1
    5	Daequan Cook	24	57	22	17.4	1.9	5.2	.368	1.4	4.0	.346	0.2	0.4	.636	0.2	1.9	2.1	0.3	0.4	0.2	0.3	1.2	5.5
    6	Kendrick Perkins	27	65	65	26.8	2.0	4.0	.489	0.0	0.0		1.1	1.7	.652	1.8	4.7	6.6	1.2	0.4	1.1	1.8	2.9	5.1
    7	Derek Fisher	37	20	0	20.4	1.9	5.4	.343	0.6	1.8	.314	0.7	0.7	.929	0.1	1.4	1.5	1.4	0.6	0.1	0.8	1.6	4.9
    8	Thabo Sefolosha	27	42	42	21.8	1.6	3.7	.432	0.7	1.7	.437	0.9	1.0	.884	0.5	2.5	3.0	1.1	0.9	0.4	1.0	1.9	4.8
    9	Nick Collison	31	63	0	20.7	1.9	3.2	.597	0.0	0.0	.000	0.7	1.0	.710	1.9	2.5	4.3	1.3	0.5	0.4	1.0	2.4	4.5
    10	Eric Maynor	24	9	0	15.2	1.6	4.3	.359	0.7	1.9	.353	0.4	0.4	1.000	0.3	1.1	1.4	2.4	0.6	0.0	1.2	1.4	4.2
    11	Reggie Jackson	21	45	0	11.1	1.1	3.5	.321	0.3	1.4	.210	0.6	0.6	.862	0.3	0.9	1.2	1.6	0.6	0.0	0.8	0.7	3.1
    12	Nazr Mohammed	34	63	1	11.0	1.3	2.7	.467	0.0	0.0	.000	0.2	0.4	.565	0.9	1.8	2.7	0.2	0.3	0.6	0.4	1.6	2.7
    13	Cole Aldrich	23	26	0	6.7	0.8	1.6	.524	0.0	0.0		0.5	0.5	.929	0.5	1.3	1.8	0.1	0.3	0.6	0.3	0.8	2.2
    14	Royal Ivey	30	34	0	10.4	0.8	2.1	.356	0.5	1.6	.340	0.0	0.2	.125	0.0	0.7	0.7	0.3	0.4	0.0	0.3	1.1	2.1
    15	Ryan Reid	25	5	0	3.4	0.8	1.0	.800	0.0	0.0		0.0	0.0		0.2	0.2	0.4	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.2	0.2	1.6
    16	Lazar Hayward	25	26	0	5.4	0.5	1.5	.342	0.2	0.5	.286	0.3	0.5	.583	0.1	0.5	0.6	0.2	0.1	0.0	0.3	0.7	1.4
    Only 3 players averaging more than 10 points.

    Lets Look at Miami's Numbers This year

    Code:
    Rk	Player	        Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
    1	LeBron James	27	62	62	37.5	10.0	18.9	.531	0.9	2.4	.362	6.2	8.1	.771	1.5	6.4	7.9	6.2	1.9	0.8	3.4	1.5	27.1
    2	Dwyane Wade	30	49	49	33.2	8.5	17.1	.497	0.3	1.1	.268	4.8	6.1	.791	1.5	3.3	4.8	4.6	1.7	1.3	2.6	2.2	22.1
    3	Chris Bosh	27	57	57	35.2	6.9	14.2	.487	0.2	0.6	.286	4.0	4.9	.821	1.6	6.3	7.9	1.8	0.9	0.8	2.1	2.2	18.0
    4	Mario Chalmers	25	64	64	28.5	3.5	7.8	.448	1.6	4.1	.388	1.3	1.6	.792	0.3	2.4	2.7	3.5	1.5	0.2	2.2	2.6	9.8
    5	Norris Cole	23	65	2	19.4	2.7	6.9	.393	0.3	1.2	.276	1.0	1.3	.776	0.3	1.1	1.4	2.0	0.7	0.0	1.6	1.9	6.8
    6	Mike Miller	31	39	2	19.3	2.3	5.4	.435	1.4	3.0	.453	0.1	0.1	.400	0.6	2.7	3.3	1.1	0.4	0.2	0.8	1.5	6.1
    7	Udonis Haslem	31	64	10	24.8	2.4	5.6	.423	0.0	0.0		1.3	1.6	.814	1.8	5.5	7.3	0.7	0.5	0.4	0.9	2.2	6.0
    8	Shane Battier	33	65	10	23.1	1.7	4.5	.387	1.0	2.8	.339	0.4	0.6	.622	0.9	1.5	2.4	1.3	1.0	0.5	0.6	1.6	4.8
    9	James Jones	31	51	10	13.1	1.1	2.9	.380	0.9	2.2	.404	0.5	0.6	.833	0.1	0.8	1.0	0.4	0.3	0.2	0.2	0.9	3.6
    10	Terrel Harris	24	22	1	14.5	1.3	3.8	.349	0.4	1.8	.205	0.6	1.0	.667	0.8	1.5	2.3	1.2	0.4	0.1	1.1	1.5	3.6
    11	Ronny Turiaf	29	13	5	17.0	1.2	2.3	.533	0.0	0.1	.000	1.0	1.7	.591	1.5	3.0	4.5	0.4	0.6	1.1	0.6	2.5	3.5
    12	Joel Anthony	29	64	51	21.1	1.3	2.4	.559	0.0	0.0		0.8	1.1	.690	1.6	2.3	3.9	0.1	0.6	1.3	0.7	2.0	3.4
    13	Dexter Pittman	23	35	6	8.6	1.3	2.7	.468	0.0	0.0		0.5	0.8	.643	0.8	1.3	2.0	0.3	0.2	0.2	0.5	2.1	3.0
    14	Eddy Curry	29	14	1	5.9	0.9	1.9	.462	0.0	0.0		0.4	0.6	.750	0.3	0.6	0.9	0.1	0.0	0.1	0.7	1.2	2.1
    15	Juwan Howard	38	28	0	6.8	0.6	2.0	.309	0.0	0.0		0.3	0.4	.800	0.6	1.0	1.7	0.4	0.1	0.0	0.7	0.6	1.5
    16	Mickell Gladness	25	8	0	3.5	0.1	0.4	.333	0.0	0.0		0.0	0.0		0.1	1.3	1.4	0.3	0.1	0.1	0.4	1.0	0.3
    4 players averaging 10+ plus points. Lebron though, gets a lot of players involved.

    So whats this talk about Melo's Teammates not being able to thrive? Its two problems.

    1) In his year and a half here, Melo hasn't played with a capable PG. Either that or everyone was either injured or M.I.A

    2) Coaching

    Edit: Oh and Melo had just came back from playing with Team USA. He himself even said that was his best season. We might see the better version of melo this year because he is learning learning how to adopt to star players once again.
    Last edited by Nyc4You; 08-07-2012 at 12:50 AM.

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    One stat I've seen that people have great trouble refuting.

    Why is the team 1 point better with Melo off the floor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrandedCub View Post
    I got an idea, how about we just stop making threads about Melo until the season starts and we see how he does. It's the same **** over and over in here. Both sides continually regurgitate crap constantly. I don't get how any of you take anything from this as it's been all said before. At this point, what is the point?

    Let's move on.
    So posters aren't allowed to discuss Knicks players on... a Knicks forum?

    And the problem is that one side is willing to discuss the facts and evidence and the other "side" absolutely refuses to do the same thing and resorts to name calling and hyperbolic banter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hustla23 View Post
    So posters aren't allowed to discuss Knicks players on... a Knicks forum?

    And the problem is that one side is willing to discuss the facts and evidence and the other "side" absolutely refuses to do the same thing and resorts to name calling and hyperbolic banter.
    Your Sig man... :cry:

  14. #89
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    Anji is offline The Nba is his GAME!!!!!!
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    Ah, advance bullshats. LOL


    I'm not fan of these stats and Melo has weaknesses like everybody else, but the biggest problem I find with T/S, OWS, OBP, Runners in scoring position(did you see what I did there?), ect is that these stats basically favor the dunkers and 6'10 plus of the crowd in basketball.

    Which in a nutshell is not Melo's game, he's not 6'11, does not get many oops or can't live around the rim like LBJ, Westbrook, Love, ect.

    He is one of the best scorers in the league and he makes his living in the mid range game. Which is just inside the money ball 3 point range, where you get plus .98349 in the number crunching for making 1 out 3 shots.

    And when you look at guys like Zach Randolph, before he get's to Memphis, his WinShares said he was XYZ. But you know what, he finally got to a winning team and XYZ when up.............he didn't change though, so what did the "Saber Metric" numbers really mean in the end for him???

    I'd rather watch this year and see how "not" elite Melo is, with a very strong cast around him than fuss over stats.
    Last edited by Anji; 08-07-2012 at 01:03 AM.
    My mama said pray for them ****** that hate
    They just wanna be in your place.........


    Shine on shine on shine on them ******
    Shine on them ****** (what it ain't what it is)
    Shine on them ****** (what it ain't what it is)
    Shine on them ****** (what it ain't what it is)
    Shine on shine on shine on them ******

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyc4You View Post
    Your Sig man... :cry:
    Ah, gonna miss the dude's hustle man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anji View Post
    Ah, advance bullshats. LOL


    I'm not fan of these stats and Melo has weaknesses like everybody else, but the biggest problem I find with T/S, OWS, OBP, Runners in scoring position(did you see what I did there?), ect is that these stats basically favor the dunkers and 6'10 plus of the crowd in basketball.

    Which in a nutshell is not Melo's game, he's not 6'11, does not get many oops or can't live around the rim like LBJ, Westbrook, Love, ect.

    He is one of the best scorers in the league and he makes his living in the mid range game. Which is just inside the money ball 3 point range, where you get plus .98349 in the number crunching for making 1 out 3 shots.

    And when you look at guys like Zach Randolph, before he get's to Memphis, his WinShares said he was XYZ. But you know what, he finally got to a winning team and XYZ when up.............he didn't change though, so what did the "Saber Metric" numbers really mean in the end for him???

    I'd rather watch this year and see how "not" elite Melo is, with a very strong cast around him than fuss over stats.
    Chris Paul is routinely in the top 3 in OWS and all these metrics. He's not a 6'11 dunker.

    Also, runners in scoring position is not a valid comparison to OWS. The more apt comparison would be wRAA to OWS.

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