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View Poll Results: Must a top HOF worthy quarterback win a Super Bowl to validate his career?

Voters
27. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    2 7.41%
  • Yes, with few exceptions, virtually all the top QBs have.

    6 22.22%
  • It depends

    6 22.22%
  • No

    10 37.04%
  • No, the stats, with a great W/L record alone is enough for greatness.

    3 11.11%
  • Other (the obligatory other) make your case…

    0 0%
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  1. #16
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    I won't say that it validates a QBs career but it makes it meaningful because you play the game to win. It takes great stats to be a HOF QB with no super bowl ring and there aren't to many people who will reach those stat marks. On the flip side winning a super bowl can propel a good QB to a HOF QB.
    Eli Manning going for 2012-2013 NFL MVP

    not to mention this: http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/ima...ine=1328584116

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    To validate his career - you could make the argument.

    To validate his individual achievements - not at all.
    So are you saying that the career is less important than the individual achievements? I think that they're integral with respect to the HOF.

    The SB win is not mandatory but it sure shortens the discussion of acceptance.

    The bigger question is how do we enshrine the same number of players every year without lowering the quality of the membership of the HOF?
    "An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a subject"

    Unknown

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidgta1 View Post
    But the HOF is a joke how the hell do you not have Chris Carter an Bill Parcells in it? With that being said the HOF isn't about rings it's about stats moments seasons an W/L lets say Michael Vick dosent ever wins a Super Bowl. I expect him to be in there and if he's not I want to meet the ppl who decides who gets in an who dosent.
    LOL Michael Vick is no where near a HOF player.. Until he actually can play 16 games and have a similar season to 2110 then he wont be a HOF..

  4. #19
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    I think it depends on the player, or what other accomplishments they have. A guy like Marino, no he didn't need to ring to solidify his place. On the other hand a guy like Randall Cunningham or Donovan McNabb, a ring would have gone a long way toward solidifying their careers.
    "Life is great. Football is better". -Steve Sabol

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shkelqim View Post
    If vick wins a superbowl with all those rushing yards Hes in.
    LMAO yeah right. With the whole dog killing thing and being in jail let alone should keep him out of it. Just cause he can run for a bunch of yards doesn't mean he should get in. He hasn't acheived ANYTHING as a QB. He was never won an MVP, doesn't have a SB ring, Doesn't have any passing records, Can't finish a whole season. I mean if Carter and Parcells have a hard time getting in how do you think it is going to be for Vick? I mean seriously.




    There you go thumper




  6. #21
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    So if Phillip Rivers continues to have great seasons statistically, does not deserve it? Cause i don't see him winning one for awhile unless their roster overturns dramatically.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tp13baby View Post
    So if Phillip Rivers continues to have great seasons statistically, does not deserve it? Cause i don't see him winning one for awhile unless their roster overturns dramatically.
    Well, Is Phillip Rivers building a HOF career or is he statistically just a VG QB? I am not sure a second tier QB is HOF worthy.

    Is 3 years at the top out of 6 years in the league HOF worthy?

    It may be. If he has a few more years like 2008, 2009 and 2010 he could receive some consideration.

    Year, QB Rating, position
    2011, 88.7, 11th
    2010, 101.8, 2nd
    2009, 104.4, 3rd
    2008, 105.5, 1st
    2007, 82.4, 18th
    2006, 92.0, 8th
    Last edited by subroc; 08-04-2012 at 04:15 PM.
    Bill Parcells: "You are what your record says you are."

  8. #23
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    Steve McNair.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    Well, Is Phillip Rivers building a HOF career or is he statistically just a VG QB? I am not sure a second tier QB is HOF worthy.

    Is 3 years at the top out of 6 years in the league HOF worthy?

    It may be. If he has a few more years like 2008, 2009 and 2010 he could receive some consideration.

    Year, QB Rating, position
    2011, 88.7, 11th
    2010, 101.8, 2nd
    2009, 104.4, 3rd
    2008, 105.5, 1st
    2007, 82.4, 18th
    2006, 92.0, 8th
    Rivers numbers are better than Eli and has had more elite years than Eli. People already have Manning in the HOF. So I mean, why shouldn't Rivers go in because his team wasn't the best.

    Since they were both full time starters.
    Rivers (06-11) 63.6% completion %, avg. 4023 passing yards, 27 TDs to 13 picks a season. QB rate of 95.8
    Eli (05-11) 59% completion %, avg. 3791 passing yards, 26 TDs to 17 picks a season. QB rate of 83.5

    So its not even that close. Rivers has lead the league in passing yards, TD passes, Yards per completion, QB rate at one point or another. Eli has only lead the league in picks, twice.
    Last edited by NJBASEBALL22; 08-05-2012 at 11:31 AM.
    Suck it

  10. #25
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    Well there is no black and white answer to this one. I did a numbers check years ago and Marino was outrushed by something like 200 yards per game in his playoff losses. That’s tough to win against. Can it be done? I guess so. But the only QB to overcome that kind of rushing disparity and win in playoff history was…. Dan Marino (vs. the Browns).
    So there’s an outlier. Should he have won a SB though nobody has ever been able to overcome that kind of situation?
    What about Favre? His only win was the year he had the #1 Defense AND the #1 special teams.
    Or a guy like Mark Rypien who outside of a couple years never was a great QB, but did play great to get his team a ring?

    I think it can push a guy over the top who is borderline, or keep one down. For example I think Kurt Warner will get in the HOF, in a large part because of the 99 Rams SB. I think had Boomer Esiason put on a ring, he’d be in the HOF.
    But I don’t think a SB ring makes a non-worthy QB a HOF contender on its own. Joe Flacco, with or without that ring has a long ways to go. Fouts even without a ring was a lock.

  11. #26
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    Nope

    Marino, Fouts, Esiason, Moon, and others have shown that you can be damn good without bringing home the Lombardis

    Actually, using SB rings as a "validation" for the hall is unfair since winning games to get there is a team accomplishment while amassing stats is an individual one
    Broncos be like:


  12. #27
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    No!

    Fouts and Marino went 1st ballot because.... they were great. The team is another matter. they can only do what they can do.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    Well, Is Phillip Rivers building a HOF career or is he statistically just a VG QB? I am not sure a second tier QB is HOF worthy.

    Is 3 years at the top out of 6 years in the league HOF worthy?

    It may be. If he has a few more years like 2008, 2009 and 2010 he could receive some consideration.

    Year, QB Rating, position
    2011, 88.7, 11th
    2010, 101.8, 2nd
    2009, 104.4, 3rd
    2008, 105.5, 1st
    2007, 82.4, 18th
    2006, 92.0, 8th
    Just to point out, Tom Brady has a career rating of 95.9, rivers 95.5 , and Brady has had a rating over 100 3 times in 11 years, compared to Rivers' 3 in 6. If Brady is considered a tier 1 qb, I don't see how Rivers isn't.

    Brady is really the best example of these types of debates because he has clearly been an elite qb in the latter half of his career in which he's won zero superbowls, compared to him being a good qb earlier with 3 superbowls. So how much weight should rings have?? I don't know. All I know is Rivers' is without a doubt a HOF level quarterback.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

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  14. #29
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    No. I mean seriously, I didn't know this was even a debate amongst people who aren't employed by "The Worldwide Leader"

    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Brady is really the best example of these types of debates because he has clearly been an elite qb in the latter half of his career in which he's won zero superbowls, compared to him being a good qb earlier with 3 superbowls. So how much weight should rings have?? I don't know. All I know is Rivers' is without a doubt a HOF level quarterback.
    Not to mention that if his career as a starter started in 05 everyone would be calling him a "choker" who "couldn't win the big one".

    Also (since he's being discussed) the fact that there was any discussion at all about whether or not Bill Parcells belonged in the HOF was simply idiotic. One of just a few coaches ever to lead two franchises to super bowls, on the exclusive list of coaches with two rings, one of the best coaching trees ever, but no, he shouldn't be in HOF because he can be a D**k
    Last edited by LordJohn; 11-15-2013 at 02:58 PM.

  15. #30
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    Good point on Brady and Rivers. I think Rivers is an 50/50 shot right now, but if he finishes with a regular season career similar to Brady, he's a lock. But the three SB wins put Brady in that other room of the HOF where he is going down as a potential GOAT at the QB position. Even if Rivers finishes with slightly better regular season numbers than Brady, he doesn't get in that greatest of all time conversation without a ring. Marino might be the only QB not to win a championship who did so much in the regular season that he gets in the GOAT conversation.

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