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  1. #46
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    I think in order to get Harden, the package would have to be based around a player with a rookie contract and draft picks.

    I'm with Shammy on the core of the Bobcats, but I love MKG.

  2. #47
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    MKG is good and all but he's not a piece you can depend on being a #1 option.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by shammyguy3 View Post
    Of course OKC would like a star in return, but that would pose the same problem as before. With the new CBA and the luxury tax penalties and restrictions (etc etc), it's damn near impossible to retain all four of their core guys. One of Ibaka & Harden will not stay there, and with Westbrook/Durant there, Harden's the one that is easier to replace.

    And you can be high on the Bobcats' core if you'd like, I just disagree.
    OKC can keep all four guys for less than the luxury tax. Presti is not an idiot he knows Harden making max money is worth more than any package the Bulls would be willing to offer.
    Quote Originally Posted by effen5 View Post
    2 years ago, this team was worth 650 million dollars. Derrick Rose has played ten games since and now this team is worth a billion dollars. Clearly, it's Tom Thibodeu.

  4. #49
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    No, they really can't:

    Harden & Ibaka are both RFAs next year. Harden will easily get max imo, and Ibaka will easily get $10M as well. So in 2013-14 we have:

    Durant = $17,832,627
    Westbrook = $14,693,906
    Harden = ~$13,000,000
    Ibaka = ~$10,000,000

    That's over $55,000,000 already. And that's at the beginning of Harden's & Ibaka's contracts. In 2015-16 we have:

    Durant = $20,158,622
    Westbrook = $16,744,218
    Harden = ~$15,000,000
    Ibaka = ~$12,000,000

    that's $64,000,000 right there. For four players. The luxury tax is what, $71M tops. Factor in draft picks and they'll be at at least $68,000,000 come that time. So they'll have $3M at most to fill in 7 roster spots. Without the ability to acquire guys via sign & trade.

    I'm not saying the Bulls will get him for that package, or that they'll even get Harden at all. But to say that the the Thunder can keep all four guys for less than the luxury tax is short-sighted.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by shammyguy3 View Post
    No, they really can't:

    Harden & Ibaka are both RFAs next year. Harden will easily get max imo, and Ibaka will easily get $10M as well. So in 2013-14 we have:

    Durant = $17,832,627
    Westbrook = $14,693,906
    Harden = ~$13,000,000
    Ibaka = ~$10,000,000

    That's over $55,000,000 already. And that's at the beginning of Harden's & Ibaka's contracts. In 2015-16 we have:

    Durant = $20,158,622
    Westbrook = $16,744,218
    Harden = ~$15,000,000
    Ibaka = ~$12,000,000

    that's $64,000,000 right there. For four players. The luxury tax is what, $71M tops. Factor in draft picks and they'll be at at least $68,000,000 come that time. So they'll have $3M at most to fill in 7 roster spots. Without the ability to acquire guys via sign & trade.

    I'm not saying the Bulls will get him for that package, or that they'll even get Harden at all. But to say that the the Thunder can keep all four guys for less than the luxury tax is short-sighted.
    You just did the math, those four guys came in well under the luxury tax. Also, the luxury tax won't be $71m in '15-16.

    It's not short sighted, stars on max contracts are the most valuable pieces from a financial and basketball standpoint. The league is going to shift, already has to some degree with mid tier players taking severe pay cuts. Thunder won't need much around those four to be contenders.
    Quote Originally Posted by effen5 View Post
    2 years ago, this team was worth 650 million dollars. Derrick Rose has played ten games since and now this team is worth a billion dollars. Clearly, it's Tom Thibodeu.

  6. #51
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    You can't have a roster with just 4 guys though. And who knows what the luxury tax will be in 2015-16, but it most certainly won't increase by an incremental amount. I'd say it would be around $73-$74M. The same problems persist.

    And sure the Thunder will need players around those guys. You can't expect all of Thabo/Collison/Perkins/Maynor/etc to remain, and you can't count on guys to replace them and be the same. Sure it happens (look at the Bulls this off-season, they did it), but the Bulls are also in a position where contracts are coming off the books, whereas the Thunder will have long-term deals for everyone.

    The Thunder will need to get creative. They aren't a good defensive team, aren't a well-coached team... they completely rely on ISO and transition baskets. We saw what happened to them in the Finals when a good defense that's just as athletic as they are is their opponent.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by shammyguy3 View Post
    You can't have a roster with just 4 guys though. And who knows what the luxury tax will be in 2015-16, but it most certainly won't increase by an incremental amount. I'd say it would be around $73-$74M. The same problems persist.

    And sure the Thunder will need players around those guys. You can't expect all of Thabo/Collison/Perkins/Maynor/etc to remain, and you can't count on guys to replace them and be the same. Sure it happens (look at the Bulls this off-season, they did it), but the Bulls are also in a position where contracts are coming off the books, whereas the Thunder will have long-term deals for everyone.
    Presti is a magician, if wants to keep all four he'll do it. Again, they can fill out with minimum contracts, it not just four players. The talent level at the minimum is only going to get better as the new fully CBA kicks in.

    Quote Originally Posted by shammyguy3 View Post
    The Thunder will need to get creative. They aren't a good defensive team, aren't a well-coached team... they completely rely on ISO and transition baskets. We saw what happened to them in the Finals when a good defense that's just as athletic as they are is their opponent.
    Top 10 defense and #2 rated offense while being the 6th youngest team in the league. Their core is 23,23,22,22 years old, they have a ton of room for improvement without adding anything. Yes they were over-matched by the Heat, but that's a team that was the clear favorite from the beginning of the year featuring 3 in-their-prime HOFers. Trading Harden for draft picks and Mirotic does nothing to get them past the Heat and it wastes prime years of KD and Westbrook.


    PS Harden said today, there's a 100% chance he'll re-up with OKC.
    Quote Originally Posted by effen5 View Post
    2 years ago, this team was worth 650 million dollars. Derrick Rose has played ten games since and now this team is worth a billion dollars. Clearly, it's Tom Thibodeu.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiSox219 View Post
    Presti is a magician, if wants to keep all four he'll do it. Again, they can fill out with minimum contracts, it not just four players. The talent level at the minimum is only going to get better as the new fully CBA kicks in.



    Top 10 defense and #2 rated offense while being the 6th youngest team in the league. Their core is 23,23,22,22 years old, they have a ton of room for improvement without adding anything. Yes they were over-matched by the Heat, but that's a team that was the clear favorite from the beginning of the year featuring 3 in-their-prime HOFers. Trading Harden for draft picks and Mirotic does nothing to get them past the Heat and it wastes prime years of KD and Westbrook.


    PS Harden said today, there's a 100% chance he'll re-up with OKC.
    people on here have a hard time understanding what it takes to beat the Heat. They think a bunch of role players can do it

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncbball234 View Post
    people on here have a hard time understanding what it takes to beat the Heat. They think a bunch of role players can do it
    WE BEAT THE HEAT IN THE REGULAR SEASON TWO YEARS IN A ROW, THATS ALL THAT MATTERS!!!!

  10. #55
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    Point out where any of us said "a bunch if role players" would do it? You busy want guys like Monta Ellis who is also a role player. He isn't a star.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Kramer View Post
    WE BEAT THE HEAT IN THE REGULAR SEASON TWO YEARS IN A ROW, THATS ALL THAT MATTERS!!!!
    None of us are said that. Why keep making things up to make your arguments instead of actually making a legit argument?

    p.s. To add on to what cubbyblue posted about ellis....well oj mayo is not a star either. (uncbball, before you go freak out due to the mention of mayo, i'm bringing him up in a diff. context here).

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiSox219 View Post
    Presti is a magician, if wants to keep all four he'll do it. Again, they can fill out with minimum contracts, it not just four players. The talent level at the minimum is only going to get better as the new fully CBA kicks in.
    Sounds like blind faith to me


    Top 10 defense and #2 rated offense while being the 6th youngest team in the league. Their core is 23,23,22,22 years old, they have a ton of room for improvement without adding anything. Yes they were over-matched by the Heat, but that's a team that was the clear favorite from the beginning of the year featuring 3 in-their-prime HOFers. Trading Harden for draft picks and Mirotic does nothing to get them past the Heat and it wastes prime years of KD and Westbrook.
    Idc about that anymore, because beyond this season they won't be able to retain all of those guys. And for the record, they were actually 11th in DRtg this year. And whoa, did you just say Chris Bosh is a Hall of Famer?

    PS Harden said today, there's a 100% chance he'll re-up with OKC.
    I'm sure Harden 100% wants to stay in OKC, it's not up to him though. Unless he takes a significant pay cut to stay there, which I don't see happening.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by CubbyBlue2009 View Post
    Point out where any of us said "a bunch if role players" would do it? You busy want guys like Monta Ellis who is also a role player. He isn't a star.
    I want Ellis? Wtf couldn't be further from the truth

  14. #59
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    A lot of words are being put into multiple posters' mouths now guys. Can we stop the belittling and bickering, stop offending others and baiting using words like "homer" and "hater." It really clogs up the forum.

    I get it, we're all hyped up when we talk about the Bulls. Obviously people will have different viewpoints, some of which can be proved wrong or right, but others that are simply opinions and subjective with no third party to throw down the hammer for a definitive absolute. We can joke around and such, that's fine, but sometimes it goes too far. And the biggest components of that are using homer, hater, etc.

  15. #60
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    Didnt we learn out lesson on undersized back courts when BG was here

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