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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    Agree. I have been fascinated with the approach and issues of the Green Party for many years. It is unfortunate it has not been promoted to the "Big Stage" as an equal. Until that happens, I feel any vote towards an independent would be a wasted vote until there is a core following locally. If Nader can't do it, I am not sure this women can.
    This is by far the most dangerous position in politics.

    1. You say you're waiting for a core following before you vote, yet they need your vote to create that core. It's self-defeating.
    2. Fact: the "wasted vote" rhetoric comes directly from the 2 parties who are adversely effected by a third party growing in numbers (or a 4th party or a 5th party)
    3. A third party vote carries more meaning than any for the dems or reps. Especially if you're not in one of the swing states, but even still; the 2 dopey parties running things gather millions upon millions of votes and dominate headlines and debates because of the danger in voting for a 3rd party assumption. Fact is EVERY SINGLE 3RD PARTY VOTE means a lot. Every one is an inch closer to getting more attention in the media and getting a shot in the debates. The difference of a few hundred thousand with Dems or Reps means little, but that same number to a few third parties sends the most important message there is and probably the only one nearly all Americans agree with:

      The democrats and republicans are less than what we need or want them to be.


    Everyone *****es about these 2 groups, but nobody wants to take the real step in getting rid of them by not voting for them anymore. We lump ourselves into conservative or liberal and fear the other side taking over, so we vote for the lesser of 2 evils meanwhile neither of them actually represent the groups we put ourselves into.


    Sorry to rant, but the "wasted vote" notion is something I used to say and believe and now I find it as just another empty slogan from 2 empty political parties lead by empty promise filled candidates.


    I'm all about 3rd parties and honestly don't care which one people vote for so long as they do it. Personally, I've come to the conclusion that with the state our planet is in (pollution/climate, wars, etc.) that a Green Party vote is the most scientifically responsible vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by homestarunner93 View Post
    What does protesting about it change? Instead of proactively looking for a solution to their problem, they cry about it. That is a sense of entitlement.
    Protesting isn't crying, it's drawing attention to the problem and therefore part of the solution. You're assuming way too much in your position. It's not entitlement unless you consider the right to not be manipulated a sense of entitlement.

    But this is a senseless debate since you're clearly firmly grounded in that idea, but I'm sure you can think of at least some protest worthy causes and if so, then just forget the topic/cause for a moment and realize that's the position these people are in, agree or not.
    Last edited by GGGGG-Men; 08-03-2012 at 12:53 PM.

  2. #17
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    I just remember Bush winning and I sometimes wonder if the 3% who voted for Nader would have voted for Gore, would history be different now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    Curious, have you ever been to a point in your life where you wondered where you were going to live or eat your next meal if things continued the way your life was at that moment?
    No, but what does this protest do to solve anything? In fact, why are they protesting in the first place? Because they don't like that the bank is going to take their property because they can't pay for what they agreed to pay for? That's how the world works, and how it should work. There's nothing to protest.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Protesting isn't crying, it's drawing attention to the problem and therefore part of the solution. You're assuming way too much in your position. It's not entitlement unless you consider the right to not be manipulated a sense of entitlement.

    But this is a senseless debate since you're clearly firmly grounded in that idea, but I'm sure you can think of at least some protest worthy causes and if so, then just forget the topic/cause for a moment and realize that's the position these people are in, agree or not.
    It depends what the protest is about. This seems like crying to me. "I can't pay my mortgage, so they're going to take my house away. Therefore, I'll cry over them for doing their job!" This is just dumb.

    Sure. There are protest worthy causes, especially when the government oversteps their power. But this isn't the case. This is people protesting a bank for doing what a bank is supposed to do - foreclosing on properties that aren't being paid for. I just don't see any merit for a protest here.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by homestarunner93 View Post
    No, but what does this protest do to solve anything? In fact, why are they protesting in the first place? Because they don't like that the bank is going to take their property because they can't pay for what they agreed to pay for? That's how the world works, and how it should work. There's nothing to protest.
    Before you judge the options that others take, remember you've lived a very lucky life. I am curious what step you would take, just say "well I can't pay my mortgage, I guess I'm homeless now." I seriously doubt it. You would take all the actions, be it charity or what have you, to be sure that didn't happen. My guess is all these people are asking from the bank is a little compassion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    I just remember Bush winning and I sometimes wonder if the 3% who voted for Nader would have voted for Gore, would history be different now.
    The problem with the 2000 election was the ****** electoral college instead of using a popular vote which we should have every year, like most countries do. And the other problem is not that Nader took votes (which have been proven to be mostly non-voters and then split among Bush and Gore voters), the problem is that Nader and other alternative options did not have as much attention as the 2 knuckle heads.

    Quote Originally Posted by homestarunner93 View Post
    It depends what the protest is about. This seems like crying to me. "I can't pay my mortgage, so they're going to take my house away. Therefore, I'll cry over them for doing their job!" This is just dumb.

    Sure. There are protest worthy causes, especially when the government oversteps their power. But this isn't the case. This is people protesting a bank for doing what a bank is supposed to do - foreclosing on properties that aren't being paid for. I just don't see any merit for a protest here.
    Just because you don't agree with their position doesn't mean it's "crying" or "dumb" or any other argument you keep assuming of them. You have to know the full story and it takes a lot to get that pissed off and motivated. It's no secret that the little guys get screwed over by the big guys time and time again. Now people are voicing their anger. Scales are tipped and they're pissed.

  6. #21
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    Yeah but Gggg, the winner-take-all elections in the US make 3rd party winners nearly impossible. Its not a "wasted" vote, but over 99% of third party candidates only have a shot at raising awareness, not any chance of winning an election.

    It's not a knock on them either, some of them are great candidates, it's just the systemic constraints really hurt their chances. And changing the system would be really tough to do since the republicans and democrats like beings the only show in town.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    Before you judge the options that others take, remember you've lived a very lucky life. I am curious what step you would take, just say "well I can't pay my mortgage, I guess I'm homeless now." I seriously doubt it. You would take all the actions, be it charity or what have you, to be sure that didn't happen. My guess is all these people are asking from the bank is a little compassion.
    I don't have a problem with people seeking charity or something. But what does protesting do for them? Nothing, and it shouldn't do anything. They agreed to pay the mortgage, and instead of looking for a resolution, they want to protest.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Just because you don't agree with their position doesn't mean it's "crying" or "dumb" or any other argument you keep assuming of them. You have to know the full story and it takes a lot to get that pissed off and motivated. It's no secret that the little guys get screwed over by the big guys time and time again. Now people are voicing their anger. Scales are tipped and they're pissed.
    They're pissed because they can't pay what they agreed to pay? They have no right to be pissed about anything the mortgage company did. I'll stand by thinking this is incredibly stupid. I can think what someone does is stupid, even if you don't.

  8. #23
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    I see. It is stupid for these people who agreed to pay a loan that is put in big letters at 2-3%. Then they find out that the loan can have the interest rate raised without their knowledge if the LIBOR, COFI, or CMT change. Let's also how the Federal Funds rate remains constant and that both industry and government bond rates and yields remain stable as well as the stock market. It is also stupid of the borrower to have not thought to get a degree in mathematics so they can follow all the changes since the people who write the formulas all do. I know we're smart enough to follow a non-linear, 20+ variable equation that changes everyday based on factors that lay outside our, the bank, and any US government's control, but those borrows really should be able to do that.
    Member of the Owlluminati!

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkize31 View Post
    Yeah but Gggg, the winner-take-all elections in the US make 3rd party winners nearly impossible. Its not a "wasted" vote, but over 99% of third party candidates only have a shot at raising awareness, not any chance of winning an election.

    It's not a knock on them either, some of them are great candidates, it's just the systemic constraints really hurt their chances. And changing the system would be really tough to do since the republicans and democrats like beings the only show in town.
    It's not about winning. Not yet. It's about starting the motion in the direction for more options. If people actually voted for parties that repped their ideals, half the deep south conservative votes would be spread across the Libertarian, Prohibition and Constitution parties and the liberal votes among the Green or Peace & Freedom parties.

    All it takes is people to look at the other candidates and have the balls to vote for them and to shed the fear of what might happen if they don't vote for the lessor of 2 evils.

    If 3rd parties never got attention, we'd still be voting for Whigs and Federalists.

    Quote Originally Posted by homestarunner93 View Post
    They're pissed because they can't pay what they agreed to pay? They have no right to be pissed about anything the mortgage company did. I'll stand by thinking this is incredibly stupid. I can think what someone does is stupid, even if you don't.
    They're pissed because they feel manipulated. You can't think whatever you want, as can I....which is why we're here on a forum.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    The problem with the 2000 election was the ****** electoral college instead of using a popular vote which we should have every year, like most countries do. And the other problem is not that Nader took votes (which have been proven to be mostly non-voters and then split among Bush and Gore voters), the problem is that Nader and other alternative options did not have as much attention as the 2 knuckle heads.
    I have been trying to figureout for years why we the people put up with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkize31 View Post
    Yeah but Gggg, the winner-take-all elections in the US make 3rd party winners nearly impossible. Its not a "wasted" vote, but over 99% of third party candidates only have a shot at raising awareness, not any chance of winning an election.

    It's not a knock on them either, some of them are great candidates, it's just the systemic constraints really hurt their chances. And changing the system would be really tough to do since the republicans and democrats like beings the only show in town.
    This is what I was getting at when I used the word "wasted".

    Quote Originally Posted by homestarunner93 View Post
    I don't have a problem with people seeking charity or something. But what does protesting do for them? Nothing, and it shouldn't do anything. They agreed to pay the mortgage, and instead of looking for a resolution, .
    They are doing anything they can to make sure they do not end up homeless. I'm sure you'd do the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

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