Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 46
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    882
    vCash
    1500

    Personnel - Personality

    Since there are so many "Fire Woody" threads -- I figured I could post a thread dedicated to the reason why I think the Knicks lost this series. [Hint: It wasn't coaching]

    Personnel.

    The Pacers are a slightly better TEAM than we are -- and we went ice cold.

    Personality.

    Our personality is small ball 3 pointers + Melo's Scoring Title + JR Smith. Fair to say we were barely 1 for 3 on that front.

    The Pacers are rough, tough, and in this series played other facets of the game better than they have for most of the year [ie raining 3's]



    To say I honestly think the Pacers are the better team a la Shaq and Barkley would be a lie -- because I do think the Knicks have the better team.

    However - in this series - we got outplayed in every aspect.

    Blame Melo all you want - but he is 1 of 5 on the court.

    Blame Woody all you want - but he cannot make players rebound or hit shots unless the players are committed to doing so -- and have the ability above and beyond their competition.

    It's probably more honest to say Jason Terry beat us this series than Woodson did. [figure it out]

    Painfully we can now see -- our team is incomplete as constituted and while miracles happen and we are going back to NYC -- I don't see us coming all the way back.

    Time to start looking for more pieces, get a little younger, get veterans that can actually still play in the playoffs, and get a James Hardin type to take the pressure off our star player. Durant isn't able to do it alone -- LBJ couldn't do it alone, MJ didn't, Wilt didn't, Willis Reed didn't, Kareem, Magic, Kobe, Bird -- none could do it alone.

    That is my opinion - in case you were wondering.
    you have to be trusted by the people that you lie to -pink floyd

    1/23/14: This "team" is irreparably damaged

    My Solution: Shut the team down until ALL current contracts expire. If players / coaches / execs can find jobs elsewhere - let them go get new contracts and cut ties completely.

    Wait ~5years and relaunch as an expansion team.

    Bring back 2 people -- no more, no less. 1: Walt Frazier 2: Herb Williams [Honorable Mention: Mike Breen]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    66
    vCash
    1500

    I don't think so...

    The knicks are not a better team than Indiana nor are they coached as well. Pacers are solid in starting positions 1 thru 5, can you say the same about Knicks ( No Way) ! They are big, durable and young, can you say the same about Knicks... The knicks were a last minute collection of misfits ( JR and KMART and Wallace) and hasbeens (Kid , Camby Thomas) to get in the playoffs. They did but are not built for contention. That was a big PR job. Time for looser Dolan to turn Basketabll operations totally over to P Jackson. Then we will get a team and coach the NEW York Market should have had all along, if not for Looser Dolans constant management of a thing he knows nothing about. ( Putting a quality organization together).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    882
    vCash
    1500
    Fine. The Pacers are the better team.

    I still think before this series I expected the Knicks to win. They have the talent -- or so I thought.

    Sadly - the Pacers will be even better next year when they get Granger back -- so let's face it. It's the 90's all over again. The Pacers, Bulls, and Heat will always be our betters.

    And the Celts will melt into obscurity.
    you have to be trusted by the people that you lie to -pink floyd

    1/23/14: This "team" is irreparably damaged

    My Solution: Shut the team down until ALL current contracts expire. If players / coaches / execs can find jobs elsewhere - let them go get new contracts and cut ties completely.

    Wait ~5years and relaunch as an expansion team.

    Bring back 2 people -- no more, no less. 1: Walt Frazier 2: Herb Williams [Honorable Mention: Mike Breen]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    LI-NY
    Posts
    23,739
    vCash
    1500
    I think we are a better team, we have better players, but its all about matchups, and I truly don't think theres a combination of players on this roster capable of beating these guys in a 7 game series. They beat us down the same way the Bulls do. Our bigs can't rebound no matter how big we play, we play right into their biggest strength because our bigs can't score or suck their redwood tree out of the paint like a team like Miami will do, or even the Nets with Brook who beat them 3 out of 4 this year.

    Woody didn't have a good series like the rest of our squad but to pretend that a few guys at the end of our bench were capable of saving the day is just lying to ourselves. Were not equipped to beat this team, and we would have lost to a Bulls team in shambles most likely for the same reasons.

    Like Greg Anthony said on Boomer and Carton this AM, its easy to pin everything on the coach but I don't see a whole lot of answers on our roster for the way were getting beat down on the boards and ran off the 3 point line. Sometimes it takes a 7 game series against a team you DON'T match up well with to get a cold hard slap in the face of reality. I think this team was put together to beat Miami and we didn't even think about Indy and Chicago along the way.

    I do think a healthy Rasheed Wallace changes this series big time.
    The value of elite scoring ability, by Phil Jackson:

    "This is a guy, we recognize his talent, and his skill is the kind of skill and talent that gets you through playoff games where things get sticky, grind-out, and basketball becomes a force game and suddenly you need to have a player who has the capabilities of scoring with someone hanging on them in a situation thatís critical. Heís one of those players, one of the few players who can do that.Ē

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    2,214
    vCash
    1500
    ^^The Pacers weren't our "betters" in the 90's. Neither were the Heat. Only the Bulls were and there's no shame in that because they were arguably the greatest team and dynasty in NBA history.

    The Pacers have a bunch of average to above average 2 way players that have been playing together for a couple years now. Team chemistry has to be factored in greatly, especially playoff time.

    I'm not making excuses for the Knickerbockers because on paper we're the much more talented team. But this team has undergone major roster overhauls the past 3 seasons. Think about it, this year we brought in I believe 9 new guys on this team and we ended up winning 54 games with this team getting detroyed all year with injuries to rotational players for long periods of time.

    Our team is very interesting moving forward. We can't keep continuing to make major roster changes (i.e. 5+ new guys next year,) and expect to compete for a title immediately. The only way that can happen is if we get Lebron James or possibly a Chris Paul. Those are the only 2 guys I can think of that can completely change a team success-wise.

    It'll be very interesting to see what Grunwald will do this offseason. I'm indifferent to Woodson and have been since he took over. Being the head coach for the NY knicks is a very lucrative position to many, and I'm sure if we end up losing Game 5 at MSG a lot of great coaches names will be popping out in the rumor mill.

    Personally, I'd take Sloan, either Van Gundy, Jackson, Thibs, Rivers and pops over him. Obviously some of those guys aren't available, but any of those coaches would be an upgrade over Woody. He's a good coach, but he's not a great one, and I'm sure there are a few great ones that would be interested in the position if it became vacant soon.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    LI-NY
    Posts
    23,739
    vCash
    1500
    I just hope we can win game 5 and put all the pressure on Indiana in game 6. I don't think we win game 6, but if we do, game 7 is ours. This series isn't over but its on life support.
    The value of elite scoring ability, by Phil Jackson:

    "This is a guy, we recognize his talent, and his skill is the kind of skill and talent that gets you through playoff games where things get sticky, grind-out, and basketball becomes a force game and suddenly you need to have a player who has the capabilities of scoring with someone hanging on them in a situation thatís critical. Heís one of those players, one of the few players who can do that.Ē

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    LI-NY
    Posts
    23,739
    vCash
    1500
    I support Woodson like I support all coaches here because I think in NY you get 85% unwarranted flack and relentless bashing, but I have said since day 1 its a results business. Losing in rd 2 to Indiana is not good enough, so I would be cool with keeping Woody and addressing obvious roster flaws and I would also be cool with seeking a new coach elsewhere.

    The only two guys I would consider that are available at this point are Sloan and Adelman. I think both those guys would be great fits for this roster. JVG is a Woodson clone and Phil is just unrealistic - Dolan isn't gonna hire a guy that will be bigger than him.
    The value of elite scoring ability, by Phil Jackson:

    "This is a guy, we recognize his talent, and his skill is the kind of skill and talent that gets you through playoff games where things get sticky, grind-out, and basketball becomes a force game and suddenly you need to have a player who has the capabilities of scoring with someone hanging on them in a situation thatís critical. Heís one of those players, one of the few players who can do that.Ē

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    BROOKLYN, NY
    Posts
    6,539
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    I support Woodson like I support all coaches here because I think in NY you get 85% unwarranted flack and relentless bashing, but I have said since day 1 its a results business. Losing in rd 2 to Indiana is not good enough, so I would be cool with keeping Woody and addressing obvious roster flaws and I would also be cool with seeking a new coach elsewhere.

    The only two guys I would consider that are available at this point are Sloan and Adelman. I think both those guys would be great fits for this roster. JVG is a Woodson clone and Phil is just unrealistic - Dolan isn't gonna hire a guy that will be bigger than him.
    JVG likes his cushy broadcasting job.


    Quote Originally Posted by NYK_kidd77 View Post
    Lol how can you guys hate the knicks thats like going to the special olympics and booing.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    2,214
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    I support Woodson like I support all coaches here because I think in NY you get 85% unwarranted flack and relentless bashing, but I have said since day 1 its a results business. Losing in rd 2 to Indiana is not good enough, so I would be cool with keeping Woody and addressing obvious roster flaws and I would also be cool with seeking a new coach elsewhere.

    The only two guys I would consider that are available at this point are Sloan and Adelman. I think both those guys would be great fits for this roster. JVG is a Woodson clone and Phil is just unrealistic - Dolan isn't gonna hire a guy that will be bigger than him.
    Interesting choice in Adelman. I always liked him as a coach since he was coaching up those great Blazer teams with Drexler, Buck, Duckworth and Porter. Good offensive minded coach, he had a roller coaster ride out in Minny. As for PJax, I agree with you in the notion that Dolan wouldn't want to hire a guy who he knows wants to be GM and coach for a team. And also a coach who is very open in his criticism to the media.

    And you're right, it is a results business. And him working in NY only magnifies everything 10 fold, so I think his job status really depends on how our team does Game 5. It's crazy to say that because of the success he had with this team during the regular season, but getting bounced out of the 2nd round in 5 games when we had HCA would be highly disappointing.

    Out of every coach, including the one's that'll be almost impossible to obtain, my #1 choice would be Doc Rivers. I just think that guy is a wonderful coach who knows how to coach both sides of the floor, is a great motivational speaker to his team and knows how to get his players to play with maximal effort. I know he's under contract, but if Pierce and Garnett go, I couldn't see him coaching a lottery bound Celtic team for the foreseeable future. Still a pipe dream though.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    LI-NY
    Posts
    23,739
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Dankster View Post
    Interesting choice in Adelman. I always liked him as a coach since he was coaching up those great Blazer teams with Drexler, Buck, Duckworth and Porter. Good offensive minded coach, he had a roller coaster ride out in Minny. As for PJax, I agree with you in the notion that Dolan wouldn't want to hire a guy who he knows wants to be GM and coach for a team. And also a coach who is very open in his criticism to the media.

    And you're right, it is a results business. And him working in NY only magnifies everything 10 fold, so I think his job status really depends on how our team does Game 5. It's crazy to say that because of the success he had with this team during the regular season, but getting bounced out of the 2nd round in 5 games when we had HCA would be highly disappointing.

    Out of every coach, including the one's that'll be almost impossible to obtain, my #1 choice would be Doc Rivers. I just think that guy is a wonderful coach who knows how to coach both sides of the floor, is a great motivational speaker to his team and knows how to get his players to play with maximal effort. I know he's under contract, but if Pierce and Garnett go, I couldn't see him coaching a lottery bound Celtic team for the foreseeable future. Still a pipe dream though.
    Wow. I didn't even think of Doc. If Boston blows it up you better believe he's going to ask out of his contract and I think they will oblige. I could really see him wanting to come here to be honest, and Dolan will shell out the necessary dough. Its pretty much a foregone conclusion that if KG and Pierce are gone, Doc is gonna leave too. I think our biggest competition will be the Clips or wherever Pierce and KG get traded too. That said, we have the wallet on our side, and we don't require a cross country relocation for his entire family.
    Last edited by D-Leethal; 05-15-2013 at 10:02 AM.
    The value of elite scoring ability, by Phil Jackson:

    "This is a guy, we recognize his talent, and his skill is the kind of skill and talent that gets you through playoff games where things get sticky, grind-out, and basketball becomes a force game and suddenly you need to have a player who has the capabilities of scoring with someone hanging on them in a situation thatís critical. Heís one of those players, one of the few players who can do that.Ē

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    882
    vCash
    1500
    D-Leethal -- you are not only eloquent -- but you also write well. It happens to be that I agree with you a lot too.

    And Dankster has made some great points.

    Sometimes I get exhausted defending my opinion here - so I appreciate reading posts I agree with.

    Adelman in NYC -- hmmm. Is he a guy that can coach em up in NYC under the microscope?
    JVG will never work for the Dolans again.
    Phil has little new reasons to come to this situation then he did last time I checked in with him.

    Doc. Oh Doc. Remember when he and Lenny Wilkens were both available... and we went with Lenny Wilkins? smh. Sadly though -- I think the Nets might be a situation he'd prefer.

    Sloan? He might be a good fit -- not sure if he can;t find a better gig though -- even if he might enjoy beating up on Deron a couple times a year.

    I just argued with a co-worker for about 10 minutes and he kinda convinced me that I was wrong and the Pacers are a better team and we need to dump JR and Melo is not a good enough leader and Woody is being outcoached and, and, and... I just buried my face inmy hands.
    you have to be trusted by the people that you lie to -pink floyd

    1/23/14: This "team" is irreparably damaged

    My Solution: Shut the team down until ALL current contracts expire. If players / coaches / execs can find jobs elsewhere - let them go get new contracts and cut ties completely.

    Wait ~5years and relaunch as an expansion team.

    Bring back 2 people -- no more, no less. 1: Walt Frazier 2: Herb Williams [Honorable Mention: Mike Breen]

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    5,789
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    I support Woodson like I support all coaches here because I think in NY you get 85% unwarranted flack and relentless bashing, but I have said since day 1 its a results business. Losing in rd 2 to Indiana is not good enough, so I would be cool with keeping Woody and addressing obvious roster flaws and I would also be cool with seeking a new coach elsewhere.

    The only two guys I would consider that are available at this point are Sloan and Adelman. I think both those guys would be great fits for this roster. JVG is a Woodson clone and Phil is just unrealistic - Dolan isn't gonna hire a guy that will be bigger than him.
    I agree with how bad we were playing, any substitution Woodson may have made would not been the difference. Let me say, any coach would have had trouble with how poor the entire team has played.

    Still, I think Woodson has to be responsible for the culture of the team. Mental toughness and discipline are two things you won't see anyone accuse the Knicks of having this season and I think that starts with the coach. Not saying fire Woodson for the sake of change but if there is a better option, you take it. I would take SVG/Adelman/Sloan and I'm open to JVG as well.
    Last edited by NYK|NYY; 05-15-2013 at 11:01 AM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5,585
    vCash
    1500
    Woody is the best thing that has happened to NY in the past 12 years. His recored speaks for itself. Knicks can't make a shot and can't rebound in this series. Pacers are not really playing that good. Knicks are just playing bad. Can't score plus can't rebound equals you lose.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    219
    vCash
    1500
    This has probably been the most thoughtful and insightful thread I have ever seen posted here about the Knicks. Thanks, folks.

    For me, it is the organization and it is manifested in the team on the floor – a flawed collection of not smart basketball players, who really do not know how to win, and a coach, who lacks vision and imagination – i.e., is limited – and has no control over his team. It starts at the top. The only exception to this indictment is Glen Grunwald, who has done what he could to assemble a team that at least could contend during the regular season. But now it is the playoffs and all the flaws are readily obvious.

    The Knicks could conceivably win game 5 if they hit their shots. But you can say that about any team. Tim Legler, was on ESPN, this morning, and he nailed it. The Knicks are each one dimensional. There are no “complete” ballplayers. Indiana may not have a “superstar”, but they are a collection of good, athletic, complete players (and are nine deep), who can beat you in more than one way, and they have a very fine coach. Folks, Woodson is being badly outcoached.

    The Knicks are pretty much stuck with the guys they have. Their nucleus - Chandler, Anthony, Felton – is a nice start, but they need to be complemented with solid, smart, complete players, who know how to play the game, can play defense and hit an open shot. I love Iman Shumpert, but he is not ready for prime time. JR will always be JR – great talent, but no brains – so he comes off the bench. Think of all the chaff on the roster – Camby, White, Richardson, Baron, Novak … Kidd cannot score – not even a layup so let’s forget all of this nonsense about the intangibles. Does Stoudemire have anything left? I think so, but he has not been completely healthy and is not being used properly. Martin? Now you see why the Clippers did not resign him. Copeland? There is your offense, but he is limited on defense. Prigioni should have more time. When he is in there, the team plays better. But he only got 3 minutes, last night. Why?

    But they definitely need a new coach - someone who demands respect and can convince Melo to play smart basketball. Jackson would be my first choice, but he is not coming. Seattle or LA. And Dolan is not that smart. There is power play going on with the Lakers.

    Next best choice is Doc Rivers. He is smart and he is tough and knows how to play the game. But Grunwald has to find a way to complement the nucleus with the right ballplayers. For example, Timofey Mosgov would look good and the Knicks actually have a first round draft pick, this year.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    LI-NY
    Posts
    23,739
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by episodenone View Post
    D-Leethal -- you are not only eloquent -- but you also write well. It happens to be that I agree with you a lot too.

    And Dankster has made some great points.

    Sometimes I get exhausted defending my opinion here - so I appreciate reading posts I agree with.

    Adelman in NYC -- hmmm. Is he a guy that can coach em up in NYC under the microscope?
    JVG will never work for the Dolans again.
    Phil has little new reasons to come to this situation then he did last time I checked in with him.

    Doc. Oh Doc. Remember when he and Lenny Wilkens were both available... and we went with Lenny Wilkins? smh. Sadly though -- I think the Nets might be a situation he'd prefer.

    Sloan? He might be a good fit -- not sure if he can;t find a better gig though -- even if he might enjoy beating up on Deron a couple times a year.

    I just argued with a co-worker for about 10 minutes and he kinda convinced me that I was wrong and the Pacers are a better team and we need to dump JR and Melo is not a good enough leader and Woody is being outcoached and, and, and... I just buried my face inmy hands.
    Preaching to the choir my man!!!

    I'm just glad to come on here today and see that its not a complete and utter warzone of 'FIRE WOODY' posts. Thats short sighted, thats a cop out, thats ignoring the tons of flaws that have been exposed with this roster.

    I personally think our biggest mistake when putting together this roster was focusing solely on Miami and not accounting for some of the other teams we were going to see along the way. This roster has no answer for big, physical, defensive teams. Mentally we have no answer, physically we have no answer, basketball wise we have no answers on this roster.
    The value of elite scoring ability, by Phil Jackson:

    "This is a guy, we recognize his talent, and his skill is the kind of skill and talent that gets you through playoff games where things get sticky, grind-out, and basketball becomes a force game and suddenly you need to have a player who has the capabilities of scoring with someone hanging on them in a situation thatís critical. Heís one of those players, one of the few players who can do that.Ē

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •