Tim Duncan vs Lebron James - New Organization

[JordansBulls]

You can't go wrong here either way though.....

Peak wise they are roughly equal, but I give Duncan the edge in building up the Spurs.

[Raps08-09 Champ]

Duncan didn't build up the roster of the Spurs. The management did.

[SteBO]

Duncan didn't build up the roster of the Spurs. The management did.

Pretty much this. LeBron is a flat out stud, and there's a good chance that he can get even better. It's a tough call, but if we're just starting out with an entirely new organization it's very difficult to not choose Duncan. But LeBron is a walking triple-double waiting to happen, and is also an awesome two-way player. If there was any way to nab both LBJ and Duncan, I would

[JordansBulls]

Duncan didn't build up the roster of the Spurs. The management did.

He did. He took an organization that never won anything prior to him and won multiple titles. Lebron joined forces with a proven winner to get the job done.

[Raps08-09 Champ]

He did. He took an organization that never won anything prior to him and won multiple titles. Lebron joined forces with a proven winner to get the job done.

That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

Spurs management was the one making trading, signing players and getting the best players for Duncan. Cavs management isn't even close to the Spurs management.

[JordansBulls]

That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

Spurs management was the one making trading, signing players and getting the best players for Duncan. Cavs management isn't even close to the Spurs management.

How so, they gave Lebron multiple stars.

This is a list of the players who have been on teams with Lebron James who have made either an All-Star Team, an All-NBA Team, or an All-Defensive team, all of whom were age 33 or younger when he played with them with the exception of Shaq who was allstar game mvp winner the season before playing with Lebron.

Zydrunas Ilgauskas (2-time All-Star)
Carlos Boozer (2-time All-Star) (2008 3rd Team All-NBA)
Wally Szczerbiak (2002 All-Star)
Ben Wallace (Only allstar on championship team, 4-time All-Star, 4-time Defensive player of the Year) (2nd Team All-NBA 3x, 3rd team All-NBA twice, 5x All-Defensive 1st Team, 1 All-Defensive 2nd Team)
Anderson Varejao (2010 All-Defensive 2nd Team)
Antawn Jamison (2-time All-Star, 2004 Sixth Man of the Year)
Maurice Williams (2009 All-Star)
Dwyane Wade (8x All-Star, 7x All-NBA 1st, 2nd or 3rd team, 3x All-Defensive 2nd Team, 2006 NBA Finals MVP)
Chris Bosh (7x All-Star, 2007 All-NBA 2nd Team)
Shaq (3x finals mvp, 1x league mvp, 15x allstar, 2x allstar game mvp)

[SteBO]

How so, they gave Lebron multiple stars.

This is a list of the players who have been on teams with Lebron James who have made either an All-Star Team, an All-NBA Team, or an All-Defensive team, all of whom were age 33 or younger when he played with them with the exception of Shaq who was allstar game mvp winner the season before playing with Lebron.

Zydrunas Ilgauskas (2-time All-Star)
Carlos Boozer (2-time All-Star) (2008 3rd Team All-NBA)
Wally Szczerbiak (2002 All-Star)
Ben Wallace (Only allstar on championship team, 4-time All-Star, 4-time Defensive player of the Year) (2nd Team All-NBA 3x, 3rd team All-NBA twice, 5x All-Defensive 1st Team, 1 All-Defensive 2nd Team)
Anderson Varejao (2010 All-Defensive 2nd Team)
Antawn Jamison (2-time All-Star, 2004 Sixth Man of the Year)
Maurice Williams (2009 All-Star)
Dwyane Wade (8x All-Star, 7x All-NBA 1st, 2nd or 3rd team, 3x All-Defensive 2nd Team, 2006 NBA Finals MVP)
Chris Bosh (7x All-Star, 2007 All-NBA 2nd Team)
Shaq (3x finals mvp, 1x league mvp, 15x allstar, 2x allstar game mvp)

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/lol/...d82c88-154.gif

[Raps08-09 Champ]

How so, they gave Lebron multiple stars.

Wrong. The Cavs management gave Lebron former stars. Made it big for you in case Just in case you can't understand.

This is a list of the players who have been on teams with Lebron James who have made either an All-Star Team, an All-NBA Team, or an All-Defensive team, all of whom were age 33 or younger when he played with them with the exception of Shaq who was allstar game mvp winner the season before playing with Lebron.

Zydrunas Ilgauskas (2-time All-Star)
Carlos Boozer (2-time All-Star) (2008 3rd Team All-NBA)
Wally Szczerbiak (2002 All-Star)
Ben Wallace (Only allstar on championship team, 4-time All-Star, 4-time Defensive player of the Year) (2nd Team All-NBA 3x, 3rd team All-NBA twice, 5x All-Defensive 1st Team, 1 All-Defensive 2nd Team)
Anderson Varejao (2010 All-Defensive 2nd Team)
Antawn Jamison (2-time All-Star, 2004 Sixth Man of the Year)
Maurice Williams (2009 All-Star)
Dwyane Wade (8x All-Star, 7x All-NBA 1st, 2nd or 3rd team, 3x All-Defensive 2nd Team, 2006 NBA Finals MVP)
Chris Bosh (7x All-Star, 2007 All-NBA 2nd Team)
Shaq (3x finals mvp, 1x league mvp, 15x allstar, 2x allstar game mvp)

Because guys like Shaq, Jamison, Wallace, Szczerbiak, etc played like an all star and had an impact of a top 30 player when they were team mates with Lebron.

The only all star he had was Mo Williams, and he wasn't even a top 50 talent in the league during best season. I also don't understand why you bring up Wade and Bosh when I'm talking about his days n Cleveland.


The fact that you try to allude Lebron had top notch talent in Cleveland is embarrassing.

[JordansBulls]

Wrong. The Cavs management gave Lebron former stars. Made it big for you in case Just in case you can't understand.





Because guys like Shaq, Jamison, Wallace, Szczerbiak, etc played like an all star and had an impact of a top 30 player when they were team mates with Lebron.

The only all star he had was Mo Williams, and he wasn't even a top 50 talent in the league during best season. I also don't understand why you bring up Wade and Bosh when I'm talking about his days n Cleveland.


The fact that you try to allude Lebron had top notch talent in Cleveland is embarrassing.

He had as much top notch talent in the league as there was in the league. Not like he was playing against top notch talent either. 2009 Orlando was nothing to write home about and possibly had the worst backcourt all time. And the 2010 Celtics did not have a single all nba team member.

[Raps08-09 Champ]

He had as much top notch talent in the league as there was in the league.

Most other contenders had/have at least 2 top 40 players in tersm of talent and production. You can easily argue the Cavs only had 1 top 40 player (which is Lebron) from 2003-2010.

Not like he was playing against top notch talent either. 2009 Orlando was nothing to write home about and possibly had the worst backcourt all time. And the 2010 Celtics did not have a single all nba team member.

I'm not saying he was playing against superteams or anything like that. All I said was that management didn't surround him with championship caliber teams unlike they did for Duncan (the topic we are discussing). That clearly showed against the Pistons or Magic when he played unbelievable and had to literally carry his team to keep them in the games while his teammates were barely visible.

Of course Lebron shares part of the blame for other series. Lebron didn't step up at all against the Celtics or in the 2011 Finals while his teammates were outplaying him some games.

[JordansBulls]

Most other contenders had/have at least 2 top 40 players in tersm of talent and production. You can easily argue the Cavs only had 1 top 40 player (which is Lebron) from 2003-2010.

Ilgauskas and Boozer had better PER's than Lebron in 2004 and higher WS and higher WS/PER 48 minutes all of this with Lebron playing 79 games.

In 2005 Gooden and Ilgauskas had over a 19 PER
In 2006 lgauskas had a 21.9 PER

This just to name a few.

[MetroMan]

Duncan

[Raps08-09 Champ]

Ilgauskas and Boozer had better PER's than Lebron in 2004 and higher WS and higher WS/PER 48 minutes all of this with Lebron playing 79 games.

In 2005 Gooden and Ilgauskas had over a 19 PER
In 2006 lgauskas had a 21.9 PER

This just to name a few.

Doesn't change the fact that they weren't (or they were barely) even a top 40 player.


Tiago Splitter had a 20.5 PER in 2011.
DeJuan Blair had a 24 PER in the 2010 playoffs.

**** Duncan for not winning with these elite players.



Also, why ignore the 2nd part of the post? Were you baffled I was right and couldn't come up with your reoccurring illogical fallacies?

[JordansBulls]

Doesn't change the fact that they weren't (or they were barely) even a top 40 player.


Tiago Splitter had a 20.5 PER in 2011.
DeJuan Blair had a 24 PER in the 2010 playoffs.

**** Duncan for not winning with these elite players.



Also, why ignore the 2nd part of the post? Were you baffled I was right and couldn't come up with your reoccurring illogical fallacies?

The 2nd part has been discussed several times already. And Big Z was an allstar twice once in 2003 and again in 2005, so that is top notch talent to make the allstar team.

[Raps08-09 Champ]

The 2nd part has been discussed several times already. And Big Z was an allstar twice once in 2003 and again in 2005, so that is top notch talent to make the allstar team.

Being on the all star team doesn't mean you have top 40 talent in the league. But even if he was a top 40 talent during that time in 2005, Big Z was there BEFORE Lebron was on the team. I'm originally arguing the Cavs management didn't bring any top 40 talent once Lebron was there.