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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoggin88 View Post
    That phrase "abort the fetus" translates as "kill the child" to Christians since they believe life begins at conception. . .
    to some Christians, yes. To other Christians no. You should be careful about generalization when dealing with religious groups. There are many believers that disagree with what you say.

    It seems obvious that an hour before birth, a fetus is a person. An hour after conception, it isn't. Don't represent your views as mine, please.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyFan View Post
    to some Christians, yes. To other Christians no. You should be careful about generalization when dealing with religious groups. There are many believers that disagree with what you say.

    It seems obvious that an hour before birth, a fetus is a person. An hour after conception, it isn't. Don't represent your views as mine, please.
    Ok, insert the word "these" before Christians. I was referring to the administration of Wheaton College.
    In case you weren't aware, there is now a Religion Forum here. All high-quality discussion welcome!

  3. #48
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    Can someone clarify to me how saying that insurance plans must cover something that an insuree might want is getting involved in anyone's personal life?

    I don't really see the logic behind that assessment.
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  4. #49
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    Isn't his about making someone (the college, catholics) pay for something that runs against their beliefs?

    You don't have to agree with it but it seems logical if you have those beliefs.....
    "An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a subject"

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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Can someone clarify to me how saying that insurance plans must cover something that an insuree might want is getting involved in anyone's personal life?

    I don't really see the logic behind that assessment.
    I'll provide a slightly outrageous analogy, but it gets the point across. Obviously I don't think this analogy is on the same level as this situation but:

    Say you own a business, and the government comes out with a new mandate saying you have to provide a poisonous pill that parents can give to their kids to kill them if they no longer want to take care of them. Most of your workers would not use this pill, but one might at some point. And you would have to pay for them to have the right to kill their kid. This is exactly how these people view this situation. They don't want the government forcing them to provide ways to "murder" fetuses. That's how it gets personal.
    In case you weren't aware, there is now a Religion Forum here. All high-quality discussion welcome!

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoggin88 View Post
    I'll provide a slightly outrageous analogy, but it gets the point across. Obviously I don't think this analogy is on the same level as this situation but:

    Say you own a business, and the government comes out with a new mandate saying you have to provide a poisonous pill that parents can give to their kids to kill them if they no longer want to take care of them. Most of your workers would not use this pill, but one might at some point. And you would have to pay for them to have the right to kill their kid. This is exactly how these people view this situation. They don't want the government forcing them to provide ways to "murder" fetuses. That's how it gets personal.
    Thats just a bad analogy... And it only works or the morning after pill even if you want to Strech it. The birth control pill does not kill fetuses... And it's used for more than preventing pregnancy.

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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Thats just a bad analogy... And it only works or the morning after pill even if you want to Strech it. The birth control pill does not kill fetuses... And it's used for more than preventing pregnancy.
    I'm not so sure it's a bad analogy. They believe the morning after pill (and things like it) kills living people. While I think it's a bad analogy in the sense that I don't believe any contraceptives are immoral, it works in showing why this is a personal issue in their eyes.
    In case you weren't aware, there is now a Religion Forum here. All high-quality discussion welcome!

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoggin88 View Post
    I'm not so sure it's a bad analogy. They believe the morning after pill (and things like it) kills living people. While I think it's a bad analogy in the sense that I don't believe any contraceptives are immoral, it works in showing why this is a personal issue in their eyes.
    for one small aspect of the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoggin88 View Post
    I'll provide a slightly outrageous analogy, but it gets the point across. Obviously I don't think this analogy is on the same level as this situation but:

    Say you own a business, and the government comes out with a new mandate saying you have to provide a poisonous pill that parents can give to their kids to kill them if they no longer want to take care of them. Most of your workers would not use this pill, but one might at some point. And you would have to pay for them to have the right to kill their kid. This is exactly how these people view this situation. They don't want the government forcing them to provide ways to "murder" fetuses. That's how it gets personal.
    From your example, it just sounds like better education on what is and what is not murder would be necessary.
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    From your example, it just sounds like better education on what is and what is not murder would be necessary.
    so what IS murder, vs what isn't?

    I personally don't believe life begins at conception, but that isn't what bothers me about this. Just as I think institutes have the right to freedom FROM religious practice, they also should have the right to freedom FOR religious practice.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    so what IS murder, vs what isn't?

    I personally don't believe life begins at conception, but that isn't what bothers me about this. Just as I think institutes have the right to freedom FROM religious practice, they also should have the right to freedom FOR religious practice.
    But where do you draw the line for how crazy of things a religion should be allowed to practice. Just saying something is part of your religion doesn't and shouldn't make it legal.
    In case you weren't aware, there is now a Religion Forum here. All high-quality discussion welcome!

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    From your example, it just sounds like better education on what is and what is not murder would be necessary.
    That's the debate that has been going on for decades.
    In case you weren't aware, there is now a Religion Forum here. All high-quality discussion welcome!

  13. #58
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    ok, I'm a little confused about this. Lots of love for the rights of the college, but what about the poor schmuck that works [or goes to school] there. Or more properly Ms. Schmuck. What about her rights to access contraception. Does she have to pay extra to exercise her rights? Insurance covers contraception as part of the basic insurance package doesn't it. Should she lose her access because of where she works? That doesn't seem right.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoggin88 View Post
    But where do you draw the line for how crazy of things a religion should be allowed to practice. Just saying something is part of your religion doesn't and shouldn't make it legal.
    well, it could get blurry where that line should be drawn exactly. But I find it hard to believe anyone truly thinks this particular situation is anywhere near that line

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyFan View Post
    ok, I'm a little confused about this. Lots of love for the rights of the college, but what about the poor schmuck that works [or goes to school] there. Or more properly Ms. Schmuck. What about her rights to access contraception. Does she have to pay extra to exercise her rights? Insurance covers contraception as part of the basic insurance package doesn't it. Should she lose her access because of where she works? That doesn't seem right.
    well, I gotta assume the people going or working there are well aware of where they are going/working. Sometimes it just comes with the territory. A lawyers job is to lie his *** off. Do you think a cop should be held to the same standard? A doctor is not allowed to have personal relations with his patient. Its understandable that certain choices people make in life come with certain responsibilities.

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