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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    The opposing point is no one is stopping them from getting them in general. They just don't want to provide them, because in their view, abstinence is the best course of action. That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
    I agree. To be honest I don't think anyone is truly opposed to this. To me this just sounds like another reason to get into this religion vs state crap.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by avrpatsfan View Post
    I don't see why insurance companies are being forced to provide contraceptives.

    Condoms aren't that expensive, if you can't afford contraception, you probably shouldn't be engaging in financially risky behavior anyways. That's how I see it.
    Because condoms can break, because women do use them to regulate their periods, because women might like to be in more control of their pregnancy prevention than making sure they have condoms, because it's legal and the best objection is one based on personal morality, which is no argument at all when it's extended beyond the person.

    They're an employee, they're not a slave. You shouldn't be able to dictate whether or not they can or cannot take a certain medication because you don't like it. If this was virtually anything else besides birth control for women, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    The opposing point is no one is stopping them from getting them in general. They just don't want to provide them, because in their view, abstinence is the best course of action. That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
    Well, it's unreasonable for a few reasons:

    First, they're simply wrong. abstinence-only education doesn't work, which is essentially what they're advocating. It's been proven, over and over again, not to work. To continue to act like it works is to simply be in denial.

    Second, it takes away any ability for the employee to make their own decision. This is not about them being forced to pay for something - because I'm sure we could find plenty of other ways they're paying for things they claim not to agree with - it's about them not being able to dictate their morality to as many people as possible.

    Third, this is saying that your employer should be able to decide the kind of medical care you receive. If the owner of your company is an AIDS Denier, a thing I almost can't believe exists, does that mean he then has the right to deny your health insurance pay for any AIDS treatments? Obviously not, and how absurd that sounds. I fail to see how this is any different.
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  4. #34
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    i'm not positive how the health care mandate pertains to federal funding under the establishment clause of the first amendment (ie- whether or not it is considered financial assistance, or whether it would fall under the tax and spend powers of congress, etc.), but under the EC, a private religious institution taking money/services/goods from the government may not use said money/services/goods to effectuate religious purposes.

    i'd have to look into this more, but right now i'm doing some last-minute studying for my business associations final tomorrow morning (worst class in law school... even worse when you take it condensed over the summer while simultaneously interning all week long. kill me.).
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro
    First, they're simply wrong. abstinence-only education doesn't work, which is essentially what they're advocating. It's been proven, over and over again, not to work. To continue to act like it works is to simply be in denial.
    Wait, what? They're just refusing to pay for contraceptives. They just refuse to contribute to something that goes against their religion.

    It's like a muslim chef refusing to serve pork. I have every right to eat all the pork I want. But I don't have any right to get it from him.

    And the fact that the muslim chef won't serve me pork.....does not deny me pork. That's not preventing me from getting pork.

    Liberals need to, at some point, develop a philosophy. Because this whole "if I think it's good, it should be mandated" crap needs to just stop.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    Wait, what? They're just refusing to pay for contraceptives. They just refuse to contribute to something that goes against their religion.

    It's like a muslim chef refusing to serve pork. I have every right to eat all the pork I want. But I don't have any right to get it from him.

    And the fact that the muslim chef won't serve me pork.....does not deny me pork. That's not preventing me from getting pork.

    Liberals need to, at some point, develop a philosophy. Because this whole "if I think it's good, it should be mandated" crap needs to just stop.
    health care is not a restaurant.

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    Liberals need to, at some point, develop a philosophy. Because this whole "if I think it's good, it should be mandated" crap needs to just stop.
    i forgot liberals had a monopoly on legislating philosophy. i mean, it's not like conservatives have ever tried to ideologically legislate things like marriage, birth control, abortion, etc.

    silly me...
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  8. #38
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    So kids can't be trusted with a 16 ounce Mountain Dew or a snickers bar in vending machines, but we can hand out free condoms? Yeah, consistent...

    Just take the ****ing condoms out of the school. Its a school. Act like a school, and teach kids some math or science for a change.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    So kids can't be trusted with a 16 ounce Mountain Dew or a snickers bar in vending machines, but we can hand out free condoms? Yeah, consistent...

    Just take the ****ing condoms out of the school. Its a school. Act like a school, and teach kids some math or science for a change.
    We are talking about college not grade school. I don't think many colleges are taking the mountain dew out


    And as far as those three things.... One protects your health and the others have the abilitymto,harm it. They are going to have sex, they should be able to protect themselves from illness and pregnancy. Condoms dont cause sex. As a matter of fact they make sex less fun.

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    So kids can't be trusted with a 16 ounce Mountain Dew or a snickers bar in vending machines, but we can hand out free condoms? Yeah, consistent...

    Just take the ****ing condoms out of the school. Its a school. Act like a school, and teach kids some math or science for a change.
    Yeah... as flips said, one harms your health and the other has the ability to prevent disease or unwanted pregnancies. Pretty awful example, and has nothing to do with the thread.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    If you are pro-life and you know by doing something you will cut down on the number of abortions from 20to 60% then it is unreasonable. It is also unreasonable to think that 19 year olds aint gonna pork each other.
    To be fair, they are anti pre marital sex. I understand what your saying, but thats where they are coming from.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoggin88 View Post
    Yeah... as flips said, one harms your health and the other has the ability to prevent disease or unwanted pregnancies. Pretty awful example, and has nothing to do with the thread.
    No, it isn't, but thanks for the insult, troll. Colleges are doing exactly as I indicated earlier. At least, they are in VT.

    Perhaps both parties need to get the **** out of our personal lives.
    Last edited by Patsfan56; 07-20-2012 at 02:41 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    To be fair, they are anti pre marital sex. I understand what your saying, but thats where they are coming from.
    So then, no one at that school will want to use these pills and it isn't a problem in the slightest.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    No, it isn't, but thanks for the insult, troll. Colleges are doing exactly as I indicated earlier. At least, they are in VT.

    Perhaps both parties need to get the **** out of our personal lives.
    Colleges don't teach math and science? Come on pats fan... Because a school has a public heaTh center where you can get condoms does not impact the education given o the students. And show me how condoms increase sexual behavior in college? It be like saying fire drills cause fires, or even better seat belts cause accidents. They just prevent the students from having babies and getting sick. It's responsibile for organizations making millions off of their kids, to help protect their kids oh and pregnant sick kids are more likely to drop out so it makes financial sense as well.

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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    No, it isn't, but thanks for the insult, troll. Colleges are doing exactly as I indicated earlier. At least, they are in VT.

    Perhaps both parties need to get the **** out of our personal lives.
    Well, sorry if "awful" was too strong a word, but they really aren't the same thing. As I said, one is detrimental to your health and the other beneficial. And you were saying schools should stop handing out condoms; that has nothing to do with the government enforcing guidelines on them, because the schools do that on their own. It came across as you simply pushing an abstinence agenda not related to the thread.
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