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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbendz View Post
    But how would that be possible without Walter?
    It wouldn't be without Walter. He would vanish to the future in 2015, and he would relay the information to the scientists of the future.

    I think if we had time travel, we would most definitely send people back to observer all the different events... for scientific as well as historic reasons. It wouldn't necessarily have to be to observe primitive species. The tech only suppressed emotions because they believed they had to suppress them in order to maximize their intellectual capabilities.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11MVPPatBurrell View Post
    It wouldn't be without Walter. He would vanish to the future in 2015, and he would relay the information to the scientists of the future.
    Exactly! It seems you and I are understanding the finale the same. That is why Peter got the letter from Walter. Because Walter went into the future to stop the invasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by 11MVPPatBurrell View Post
    I think if we had time travel, we would most definitely send people back to observer all the different events... for scientific as well as historic reasons. It wouldn't necessarily have to be to observe primitive species. The tech only suppressed emotions because they believed they had to suppress them in order to maximize their intellectual capabilities.
    Exactly. They could still create the child and send him back. They could still go back and observe events and help save Peter's life and everything else they did.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11MVPPatBurrell View Post
    It wouldn't be without Walter. He would vanish to the future in 2015, and he would relay the information to the scientists of the future.

    I think if we had time travel, we would most definitely send people back to observer all the different events... for scientific as well as historic reasons. It wouldn't necessarily have to be to observe primitive species. The tech only suppressed emotions because they believed they had to suppress them in order to maximize their intellectual capabilities.
    If Walter is not physically there, then the events of the timeline would not be the same. Maybe they would try to do certain things that they did before, but the events of the timeline being exactly the same as before? No way.

    And I wasn't saying that they didn't still come back and observe. Perhaps they did. My point was that it wouldn't be the same observers, and they wouldn't be observing for the same reasons. That tech was also what gave them the ability to move through time. Without it, they could no longer do so. Granted they'd probably find another way, but it's worth pointing out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_at_york View Post
    Exactly! It seems you and I are understanding the finale the same. That is why Peter got the letter from Walter. Because Walter went into the future to stop the invasion.


    Exactly. They could still create the child and send him back. They could still go back and observe events and help save Peter's life and everything else they did.
    Why would they "create" the child? He's already there. They already have him. They'd have to create another like him and send him back, but what would the purpose of that be? There's just no reason that they would need to ensure anything from before the reset would happen again.

    Normally, the future cannot happen before the past. The past has to happen before the future. However, in this instance, the past was a direct result of the future, because that future came back to that past and changed it. There had to have been a past without the observers in it, because those observers were not created until way into the future. How do we know what that past was like? We don't, because it happened, and then it was changed, therefore it did not happen. Just like the events of seasons 1-4 happened until Peter got in the machine. After that, those events no longer actually happened. So they happened, but in the timeline of worldly events, they did not happen.

    So basically you have:

    The events of seasons 1-4 and everything that happened before that. Peter gets in the machine, erases that past, creates a new past in which he does not exist. He dies over there, he dies over here. Peter then comes back as anomaly that is not supposed to exist, thus re-writing the events of that timeline from that point forward, including the eventual invasion. Whatever happens between 2015 and 2609 happens, but then the invasion happens, thus changing the events of that time period the same way that Peter getting in the machine changes the events of the time period that runs through season 4. So they happened, and then they didn't, because they were changed.

    So you have past, then future, then past again. The first past has to happen before the first future, but the future goes back and creates a new past. Both pasts lead to the same future, but only one actually happens. Then that new past finds a way to go to that "inevitable no matter what happens in the past" future, and change it.

    By sending the boy to the future, they change that future from the one that includes the observers that ultimately invade our past, to one that does NOT include those observers. Hence the reason the invasion never happens. Observers are still created, but not the same observers. Not the ones with the tech. Not the ones without emotion. Not Windmark. Not September. If September or any of the other Observers WERE still created, then the future would not have been changed, and the invasion would still happen. The only way the invasion cannot happen is if the future is changed, and the only way the future can be changed is if a completely different past precedes it. If the same past happens, the same future happens, therefore it is completely illogical for them to try and go back and recreate the same past.

    I'll be honest, I don't even know if I'm even still making any sense, or if I ever actually was. All I know is that I love this ****.
    Last edited by Jbendz; 01-24-2013 at 09:49 PM.
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  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by KHinrich12 View Post
    Seems like you're in the minority there.
    Ahh I didnt go through the whole thread btu a couple of posts before me said this season was not very good either

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbendz View Post
    But how would that be possible without Walter? He can't go back, so is he sending 3 years worth of instructions back in time? Or a surrogate perhaps?

    The way I see it, the timeline reset changed everything. Pre-Peter in the machine timeline and post-Peter in the machine timeline. It created another all new original timeline.

    The observers never invaded in the original timeline. They only invaded in the re-written timeline created by Peter getting in the machine. In the original timeline, both universes continue to fall apart until ultimately there will be nothing left, which is the reason for Peter getting in the machine in the first place. The reason for that, obviously, is because of Walter ripping the hole by crossing over to save Peter. After the final reset, Walter does not exist in the past, thus never crosses over and rips the hole in the fabric of the universe. Therefore, there would be no need for Peter to get in the machine. If Peter never gets in the machine, he doesn't re-write the timeline, and the observers never invade anyway.

    So what exactly are they trying to make happen? We know the boy can no longer exist in the past of the new timeline, so how can they make sure everything happens the way it was supposed to, when the boy was the center piece to everything that happened in the first place?

    The whole purpose of the plan was to wipe the observers from existence. They said that plain as day on the show. So why would we assume that they were still created, and still came back to observe? The only way that assumption works is if you assume it was a completely different breed of observers, cut from the same cloth as the boy, with normal human emotions etc. Which automatically means there will be no invasion, therefore there would be absolutely no need to ensure that any specific events re-occurred the way they did before the reset. That's kind of the point OF a reset.

    What you are suggesting would be classified as a timeline reboot, not a timeline reset. They completely RESET the timeline to change the events of the future. The events of that future happened to have a heavy impact on the past, therefore the past was completely changed as well. Otherwise, everything that has happened on this show from beginning to end would have been completely pointless.

    Why would they go through all that trouble to reset the timeline, only to go back and ensure that everything happened the same way as before? Doesn't really make a lot of sense to me, but I guess that's just how I see it.
    My problem is that you are completely erasing Walter from the timeline. In that case, how does Peter get to this universere without Walter crossing over to get him?

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by ugottabjoshinme View Post
    My problem is that you are completely erasing Walter from the timeline. In that case, how does Peter get to this universere without Walter crossing over to get him?
    Lol I got to the point where I started confusing myself. I wasn't even going to post all of that but that would have felt unjust lol. I don't know man.

    The Peter we have is not "our" Peter or "over there" Peter, he's "anomaly" Peter. When he got in the machine, he was erased from the timeline. Both Walters lost their Peter, and there was no memory of him. Walter didn't even know truly know him until the boy gave him a glimpse of the timeline that was erased.

    The only reason Walter crossed over in the first place was because September distracted Walternate from discovering the cure. If September never exists, that never happens. Peter still exists even though he shouldn't, just like he continued to exist after the machine even though he shouldn't have.
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