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  1. #136
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    I liked the finale, but for me the 1st couple seasons were the best
    One of the most overused sayings on this forum

    "and its not even close" When in reality it is quite close.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by DODGERS&LAKERS View Post
    So if the observers are never created, who pulls Peter and Walter out of Reiden Lake? September never existed.... So he he would not have been able to create the boy. Thus, after Walter and the boy changed the future, Walter should have gone back to 2015 without ever knowing something happened. I'm confused but I think I'm thnking too much into it.
    I think the observers were still created. They just never invaded. They continued to observe.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by DODGERS&LAKERS View Post
    So if the observers are never created, who pulls Peter and Walter out of Reiden Lake? September never existed.... So he he would not have been able to create the boy. Thus, after Walter and the boy changed the future, Walter should have gone back to 2015 without ever knowing something happened. I'm confused but I think I'm thnking too much into it.

    I loved this show. Sucks it had to end.
    I'm guessing that's why the boy becomes a paradox. He exists in the future, but his existence in that future erases the past in which he was created. So he continues to exist in that future, but cannot exist in the past. Not really sure why Walter would be a paradox though.

    As far as Peter, he's technically an anomaly himself. September never saved him in this timeline, he's not supposed to exist. Also, September wouldn't have been there to distract Walternate from curing other Peter, so Walter never crosses over to save him.

    So I'm guessing it has something to do with what Walter was talking about when he said he and Peter "stole" their time together, so the universe kind of course corrected and won't allow Walter and Peter to exist in the same time period. Peter shouldn't exist, so in order for him to continue to exist, Walter must stay in the future. Not sure if that really makes sense to be honest, but that's what I'm going with for now.
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  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbendz View Post
    I'm guessing that's why the boy becomes a paradox. He exists in the future, but his existence in that future erases the past in which he was created. So he continues to exist in that future, but cannot exist in the past. Not really sure why Walter would be a paradox though.

    As far as Peter, he's technically an anomaly himself. September never saved him in this timeline, he's not supposed to exist. Also, September wouldn't have been there to distract Walternate from curing other Peter, so Walter never crosses over to save him.

    So I'm guessing it has something to do with what Walter was talking about when he said he and Peter "stole" their time together, so the universe kind of course corrected and won't allow Walter and Peter to exist in the same time period. Peter shouldn't exist, so in order for him to continue to exist, Walter must stay in the future. Not sure if that really makes sense to be honest, but that's what I'm going with for now.
    If Walter never crosses over to save him, then Peter never comes into this dimension and never meets this Olivia, but FauxOlivia right?

    That is the thing with time travel and that no matter how you try to tie up every angle there is always something that makes no sense.

  5. #140
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    Glad this is over, the final season seemed so rushed and just a cluster.

  6. #141
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    I lived the finale. It's not often that a show can stretch out for 5 seasons and have a fitting conclusion. I loved how htey managed to tie it all in together, the alternate universe, the observers and everything just worked.

    Definitely up there with the best endings for a series ever.

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  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    If Walter never crosses over to save him, then Peter never comes into this dimension and never meets this Olivia, but FauxOlivia right?

    That is the thing with time travel and that no matter how you try to tie up every angle there is always something that makes no sense.

    That's kind of what makes it fun though, trying to make it make sense.

    Walter never crosses over, so "other" Peter never comes over here. However, when Peter got in the machine, he was erased from existence. He died over there, and he died in the lake when Walter went over to get him. So in terms of the present universe (before the final reset), both Peters technically died. The Peter that we have is an anomaly that is not supposed to exist, so technically he "doesn't count". Therefore, when the timeline resets and the observers are never created, Walter never actually crosses over etc, "real" Peter continues to not exist and "anomaly" Peter remains.

    Normally, if the Observers were never created, Walter never crosses over because Walternate is not distracted from curing his Peter (lulz), so "other" Peter never dies. But in this instance, because Peter became an anomaly, he stayed an anamoly. Our Peter is technically the Peter from the other side, so if Walternate never gets distracted and cures him, it would stand to reason that Peter would go back to existing "over there", preventing him from existing over here with Olivia and Etta. That's why I think Walter would have been a paradox and had to stay in the future, so the timeline reset would not include him, which would allow Peter to remain where he was/wanted to be. It's as if Walter stayed in the future so Peter could "take his place" in the past, as Peter is not supposed to be a part of that past. Had Walter not taken the boy or came back to the past after the reset, the universe would have to course correct and send Peter back to where he's "supposed" to be.

    I haven't really thought too much into that, it's just a quick rationalization. I have no idea how or why it would work like that, but in general it makes sense to me. I'm sure if you tried hard enough you could find more flaws in that theory as well, but like I said, that's what makes it fun. Somebody finds a flaw in your theory, you come up with a new one. That's what made Lost so much fun, and I think it's even better with this show. Lost was probably more fun to theorize while it was on the air, but it became a nightmare after it ended. That's why I loved this finale (not that I hated the Lost finale). It left just enough to the imagination that you can come up with your own theories without it getting too sloppy, which is the one thing Lost didn't do so well.
    Last edited by Jbendz; 01-22-2013 at 01:54 PM.
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  8. #143
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    Seriously I have no idea what I watched this whole season and the finale was so bad lol

    The first couple of seasons were great but then it got JJ Abrams'd

  9. #144
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    Seems like you're in the minority there.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_at_york View Post
    I think the observers were still created. They just never invaded. They continued to observe.
    No, they definitely weren't created. At least not the way we know of them, with the tech that wiped out their emotions and led them to invade.

    Nobody pulled Walter and Peter out of the lake, because that never happened. Walter no longer exists in that era of the new timeline. Even if he did, he wouldn't have crossed over because September never would have distracted Walternate, so he never would have been on the lake anyway.
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  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbendz View Post
    No, they definitely weren't created. At least not the way we know of them, with the tech that wiped out their emotions and led them to invade.
    I really liked reading your views on what happened. I think you could be right.

    Here's what I thought, and what the guy above maybe was thinking:

    I thought when I was thinking about this after watching was that everything that happened season 1-4 (except the forward ep) happened in the ending time line where Peter is w/ Olivia & Etta.

    The future still sends Observers back..... to simply observe things. Otherwise I'm not sure how the boy came to meet Walter, how he made the videos and sent the letter, and finally how he ultimately disappeared.

    It's possible Walter even told the future they HAD to create the observers, and how to re-create the proper time line to ensure the future of humanity. A little LOST parallel..... similar to how Eloise desperately made sure that Daniel pursued a career in Physics despite him not wanting to... to make sure he'd go to the island and die.

    I think the whole timeline is the same, except for the necessity to invade. That's just my thoughts, I could be way off base.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11MVPPatBurrell View Post
    I really liked reading your views on what happened. I think you could be right.

    Here's what I thought, and what the guy above maybe was thinking:

    I thought when I was thinking about this after watching was that everything that happened season 1-4 (except the forward ep) happened in the ending time line where Peter is w/ Olivia & Etta.

    The future still sends Observers back..... to simply observe things. Otherwise I'm not sure how the boy came to meet Walter, how he made the videos and sent the letter, and finally how he ultimately disappeared.
    Exactly. They still send Observers back to observe the past. There intentions was to research.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11MVPPatBurrell View Post
    I really liked reading your views on what happened. I think you could be right.

    Here's what I thought, and what the guy above maybe was thinking:

    I thought when I was thinking about this after watching was that everything that happened season 1-4 (except the forward ep) happened in the ending time line where Peter is w/ Olivia & Etta.

    The future still sends Observers back..... to simply observe things. Otherwise I'm not sure how the boy came to meet Walter, how he made the videos and sent the letter, and finally how he ultimately disappeared.

    It's possible Walter even told the future they HAD to create the observers, and how to re-create the proper time line to ensure the future of humanity. A little LOST parallel..... similar to how Eloise desperately made sure that Daniel pursued a career in Physics despite him not wanting to... to make sure he'd go to the island and die.

    I think the whole timeline is the same, except for the necessity to invade. That's just my thoughts, I could be way off base.
    The boy technically never met Walter, because he was never created. He still exists in the future, but he was never created, hence the reason he's a paradox and cannot come back. Basically he exists and never existed at the same time. Walter also still exists in the future with the boy, and I'm guessing he still has the memories from before the reset and that's part of the reason that he is a paradox.

    We have no idea if the letter and the video still exist in the "present" after the reset. If you assume that they do still exist, then your theory would make sense. But if everything that happened in season 1-4 were the same events of the ending time line, Peter would have recognized the white tulip at the end. And we know for a fact that Walter cannot return and is stuck in the future, which also throws a wrench into the idea that the events of season 1-4 still actually happened. Technically, the events of seasons 1-3 never actually happened after Peter got in the machine.

    As far as the observers still being created and being sent back to observe, I definitely disagree there. They're not actually observers, that's just what we came to know them as and started calling them. They revealed that they were sent back to observe "primitive" behavior. The only reason they viewed us that way was because they had no emotion whatsoever. The whole point of sending the boy to the future was so the scientists would come to understand that they could accomplish their goal without sacrificing emotion. They obviously succeeded in doing so, so it's impossible that the observers that we came to know were ever created. Another reason they invaded was because the dirty air they require or "prefer" to breathe destroyed the planet. It's safe to assume that the emotion sabotaging observer tech they were implanted with is also the cause for their desire to breathe that dirty air.

    If they don't sacrifice their emotions, and they don't destroy the planet, they literally have no reason to invade or want to invade. It's possible they still sent a team back to "observe" in some capacity, but even if that's the case it definitely wouldn't have been the same observers that were sent back, and without that tech they may not have even still had the ability to move through time at all.

    I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not even suggesting that I'm right. Your theory is plausible if you want it to be. I just see it differently. Which, again, is what makes this fun.
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  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbendz View Post
    The boy technically never met Walter, because he was never created. He still exists in the future, but he was never created, hence the reason he's a paradox and cannot come back. Basically he exists and never existed at the same time. Walter also still exists in the future with the boy, and I'm guessing he still has the memories from before the reset and that's part of the reason that he is a paradox.

    We have no idea if the letter and the video still exist in the "present" after the reset. If you assume that they do still exist, then your theory would make sense. But if everything that happened in season 1-4 were the same events of the ending time line, Peter would have recognized the white tulip at the end. And we know for a fact that Walter cannot return and is stuck in the future, which also throws a wrench into the idea that the events of season 1-4 still actually happened. Technically, the events of seasons 1-3 never actually happened after Peter got in the machine.

    As far as the observers still being created and being sent back to observe, I definitely disagree there. They're not actually observers, that's just what we came to know them as and started calling them. They revealed that they were sent back to observe "primitive" behavior. The only reason they viewed us that way was because they had no emotion whatsoever. The whole point of sending the boy to the future was so the scientists would come to understand that they could accomplish their goal without sacrificing emotion. They obviously succeeded in doing so, so it's impossible that the observers that we came to know were ever created. Another reason they invaded was because the dirty air they require or "prefer" to breathe destroyed the planet. It's safe to assume that the emotion sabotaging observer tech they were implanted with is also the cause for their desire to breathe that dirty air.

    If they don't sacrifice their emotions, and they don't destroy the planet, they literally have no reason to invade or want to invade. It's possible they still sent a team back to "observe" in some capacity, but even if that's the case it definitely wouldn't have been the same observers that were sent back, and without that tech they may not have even still had the ability to move through time at all.

    I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not even suggesting that I'm right. Your theory is plausible if you want it to be. I just see it differently. Which, again, is what makes this fun.
    I think that once they went to the future, the people from the future would understand that everything would have to happen how it happened for this to all work out. They would still go back in time and "observe" and help make sure the future they live in comes to be.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_at_york View Post
    I think that once they went to the future, the people from the future would understand that everything would have to happen how it happened for this to all work out. They would still go back in time and "observe" and help make sure the future they live in comes to be.
    But how would that be possible without Walter? He can't go back, so is he sending 3 years worth of instructions back in time? Or a surrogate perhaps?

    The way I see it, the timeline reset changed everything. Pre-Peter in the machine timeline and post-Peter in the machine timeline. It created another all new original timeline.

    The observers never invaded in the original timeline. They only invaded in the re-written timeline created by Peter getting in the machine. In the original timeline, both universes continue to fall apart until ultimately there will be nothing left, which is the reason for Peter getting in the machine in the first place. The reason for that, obviously, is because of Walter ripping the hole by crossing over to save Peter. After the final reset, Walter does not exist in the past, thus never crosses over and rips the hole in the fabric of the universe. Therefore, there would be no need for Peter to get in the machine. If Peter never gets in the machine, he doesn't re-write the timeline, and the observers never invade anyway.

    So what exactly are they trying to make happen? We know the boy can no longer exist in the past of the new timeline, so how can they make sure everything happens the way it was supposed to, when the boy was the center piece to everything that happened in the first place?

    The whole purpose of the plan was to wipe the observers from existence. They said that plain as day on the show. So why would we assume that they were still created, and still came back to observe? The only way that assumption works is if you assume it was a completely different breed of observers, cut from the same cloth as the boy, with normal human emotions etc. Which automatically means there will be no invasion, therefore there would be absolutely no need to ensure that any specific events re-occurred the way they did before the reset. That's kind of the point OF a reset.

    What you are suggesting would be classified as a timeline reboot, not a timeline reset. They completely RESET the timeline to change the events of the future. The events of that future happened to have a heavy impact on the past, therefore the past was completely changed as well. Otherwise, everything that has happened on this show from beginning to end would have been completely pointless.

    Why would they go through all that trouble to reset the timeline, only to go back and ensure that everything happened the same way as before? Doesn't really make a lot of sense to me, but I guess that's just how I see it.
    Last edited by Jbendz; 01-24-2013 at 12:24 PM.
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