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  1. #211
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayOnBoard View Post
    Yeah.... just like the Jays in Toronto with all their scouting in the draft.

    Sorry for my late reply, I was in Toronto doing up the parade route for all the world series championships they're bringing home due to "good drafting".

    Hard to believe we're even arguing this to be honest. In EVERY sport the draft is a crap shoot, no matter how much money or scouting you invest in. I'm not saying you can't make educated guesses but don't come here and tell me that because you spend more money in drafting you wont have to worry about busting on a top draft pick. Honestly, you're a moron if you believe the bold and think no one 1st overall will ever bust again.
    I'm a moron because I think that teams have invested more money into scouting to prevent top picks from busting? That's what the bold part states. I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm saying teams are doing their best to prevent it from happening by investing money in scouting. Seems to have worked for the Detroit Red WIngs.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    You are a complete moron if you really believe this. Teams have invested a ton of money into scouting to prevent drating players like Patrik Stefan first overall. You don't agree with me. Look up ho much money the Leafs invested in scouting that draft and compare that to how much they had in the previus one. How big is Burke's front office? Why do you think the Red Wings are so good at drafting? They had the most money invested in scoting out of the whole NHL until recently.
    The Wings have gotten extremely lucky with the draft, no question. If they thought guys like Lidstrom,Datsyuk etc were going to be elite players, why allow them to slide so far? I disagree that drafting is different nowadays. You find the odd gem in the later rounds but the bulk of your top players come from the first few rounds. This is no different then ten or fifteen years ago. There will be another Stefan. There will be another Daigle. It happens. Hell, Daigle was obviously scouted heavily, was seen as a superstar. It happens, spending money on scouts is great and all but luck plays apart.

  3. #213
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    Quote Originally Posted by halladaymvp View Post
    The Wings have gotten extremely lucky with the draft, no question. If they thought guys like Lidstrom,Datsyuk etc were going to be elite players, why allow them to slide so far? I disagree that drafting is different nowadays. You find the odd gem in the later rounds but the bulk of your top players come from the first few rounds. This is no different then ten or fifteen years ago. There will be another Stefan. There will be another Daigle. It happens. Hell, Daigle was obviously scouted heavily, was seen as a superstar. It happens, spending money on scouts is great and all but luck plays apart.
    The way technology has changed , spending money on scouts is more likely to produce a superstar in the first few rounds than luck will. Why do you think the Wings had so much high end Sweedish talent on their team? They were one of the firs NHL teams to heavily invest money on scouts in Sweeden. They thought outside the box. Sure they're will be another Daigle or Stephan, but I think the likelhod of it happening has reduced by how teams are scouting players now. Things have changed a lot over the past 10-15 years and they will continue to change.

  4. #214
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    The Wings have drafted smart but you can't compare players who have been drafted 1st overall to guys like Datysuk, Zet and Lidstrom. That's stupid.

    That could be the case for a guy the Leafs drafted this year or last we just don't know it yet. So that proves it hasn't changed it's the same. Pekka Rinne was a 8th rounder I believe. You never know what you're gonna get. Heck Lundqvist was a late pick too.

    A lot of solid players have come out of late rounds. I don't fully disagree with you, but the Wings have been lucky, and smart at the same time investing money to scout in Sweden.


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  5. #215
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyLuke2 View Post
    The Wings have drafted smart but you can't compare players who have been drafted 1st overall to guys like Datysuk, Zet and Lidstrom. That's stupid.

    That could be the case for a guy the Leafs drafted this year or last we just don't know it yet. So that proves it hasn't changed it's the same. Pekka Rinne was a 8th rounder I believe. You never know what you're gonna get. Heck Lundqvist was a late pick too.

    A lot of solid players have come out of late rounds. I don't fully disagree with you, but the Wings have been lucky, and smart at the same time investing money to scout in Sweden.
    I'm not talking about players that have been drafted later rounds. I'm talking about top picks and how scouting has affected them. Scouting and tecnology has been changed to help prevent top picks from being busts. Sure, there might be the odd one, but teams are investing money to pevent it. Case and point was the number of GMs and scouts at Sting games this year scouting Gally and Yakki. Gm's were showing up with their senior scouts (3-4 guys) to observe and discuss the pair. Scouting staffs have more than doubled in size with the hope of cutting down on busts and also finding players in later rounds

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    The way technology has changed , spending money on scouts is more likely to produce a superstar in the first few rounds than luck will. Why do you think the Wings had so much high end Sweedish talent on their team? They were one of the firs NHL teams to heavily invest money on scouts in Sweeden. They thought outside the box. Sure they're will be another Daigle or Stephan, but I think the likelhod of it happening has reduced by how teams are scouting players now. Things have changed a lot over the past 10-15 years and they will continue to change.
    Ya man. I think you're completely right. Sure there might be bust at #1, but, with the level of talent world-wide now, and the amount of scouting out there world-wide (in addition to new methods of scouting), it's a lot less likely. I think your point is proven by the fact that the people who are arguing against you are using drafts from 13 and 20 years ago respectively. Just the internet exposure alone makes it so much easier for scouting departments to see for themselves the players that they are considering. Also, take a look at the 1999 draft... aside from the Sedin's, it's a messy draft (as weak as you'll find)! Not alot to pick from at all!

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayOnBoard View Post
    Yeah, you're absolutely right.... top players are almost guaranteed not to bust in this league.

    Ask Alexander Svitov, or Rick DiPietro, or Patrik Stefan, or Alexandre Daigle, or Chris Phillips, or Vitaly Vishnevsky, or Andrei Zyuzin, or Oleg Tverdovsky, or Cam Barker, or Aki Berg, or Scott Thornton, or Alexandre Volchkov, or Nikolai Zherdev, or Stanislav Chistov, or Raffi Torres, or..... maybe I've made my point.

    ALL these guys were top picks and had superstar careers.... thank God you cleared that up for us. Any more less-than-stellar comments to be made?
    Man, give your head a shake. The draft will only yield what there is to be had. A tonne of guys look like busts in weak draft years! First Dipietro is a band-aid, that doesn't mean he wasn't a great goalie. Vishnevski was immediately followed by Rico Fata, Manny Malhotra, Mark Bell in that draft, and preceeded by Bryan Allen. Stefan and Daigle (the 2 most cliched examples); one was 13 years ago in a crap draft, and one was 20 years ago! Phillips wasn't a bust. Oleg Tverdovsky has put up 50+ points as a defenseman multiple times (3 or more) in the NHL, was on a World Championship team, bronze at the Olympics, bronze at the WJC's, won a KHL championship, and won the Stanley cup twice. Zherdev is hardly a bust either; he proved he could play at the next level and be an effective scorer, it was just a matter of motivation (a Russian risk factor for just about every one taken). Aaand, I wish all my Maple Leaf busts were Raffi Torres.

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