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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliDevil71 View Post
    Man this was a loaded thread. I live in Tucson and I talk to a lot of my Mexicans friends here about politics and the majority of them are Democrats. We discuss a lot of issues, like how I have always seen the Mexican culture as being very strong family oriented, religious and hard working. A lot of the values that the Republican Party stands for. Some of the answers that I get from them are that their families always voted Democrat or they brought up immigration issues. Which is understandable. A lot of times I hear from them that they think the GOP is a racists party. I usually follow with a question to them "Do I look or act racist?" While I will never say that there isn't any angry old white men in our Party, but you need to look at the Democrats as well. There are racist blacks (Black Panthers) and latinos (La Raza) that will in no way vote GOP. I don't think it's fair to say only racists vote GOP.

    Now, why do Blacks vote Democrat? I have no clue. I'm happy to see great black Republicans coming out like Allen West, Mia Love, Michael Steele, Condie Rice, CL Bryant, Herman Cain, etc and pushing out the message. Also minority leaders like Bobby Jindah and Gov Haley who are also big names in the party I am hoping that it will change the image of the party. A party that I know may have a few racist voters, but don't represent the party. Just like the Democrats have theirs. I guess if you keep saying it enough some people will believe it. There is an article on Townhall right now that says the attack on Obama's "you didn't build that" comment has a racist tone to it. Come on really? I also have a few black friends who do vote Republican and they give me their take on it as well when we talk politics and to why they vote Republican. Reasons, that me saying it as a non-black, would probably be called racist. But I can understand what they are saying and see where they are coming from.

    But I will agree, though I do not like this President, and have been called racist for not voting for him, even though I didn't vote for Kerry, Edwards, or Clinton, he is still the President of the Untied States. With a Republican yelling "Liar" during the state of the union, will not help us change that image that blacks already have of this party. That was uncalled. You still need to respect the office even if you don't the man.

    But here is a follow on question I have to this one, if anyone wants to answer. Why do blacks vote Democrat when the major urban cities they live in are controlled by Democrats, like Detriot. There is no Republican influence in this city whats so ever. It's all Democrats and the black community suffers, in proverty, education and violence. Why doesn't the Democrats feel some of the pain on this issue? I don't see how this is a Republicans fault......
    As far as the r-word goes, I think you will find that plenty of Democrats are just as r-word-ous as Republicans but they tend to make it a personal thing that stays inside and doesn't enter the professional or political realm. That is how most people who are Democratic that I know handle things.

    As far as people who identify as black, I think many of the people you identified I respect. But I can't say that Allen West is one of them. He is as much a part of the problem as someone like Nancy Pelosi or most of the members of the CBC. It seems like every other attack out of Allen West's mouth is comparing something to slavery.

    Specifically to the Obama "you didn't build that" comment, most of the soundbytes left out the part about where he was referring to schools and roads. Which is anyone going to argue that their business (outside of maybe some contractors) did in fact build those roads or schools?
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    As far as the r-word goes, I think you will find that plenty of Democrats are just as r-word-ous as Republicans but they tend to make it a personal thing that stays inside and doesn't enter the professional or political realm. That is how most people who are Democratic that I know handle things.

    As far as people who identify as black, I think many of the people you identified I respect. But I can't say that Allen West is one of them. He is as much a part of the problem as someone like Nancy Pelosi or most of the members of the CBC. It seems like every other attack out of Allen West's mouth is comparing something to slavery.

    Specifically to the Obama "you didn't build that" comment, most of the soundbytes left out the part about where he was referring to schools and roads. Which is anyone going to argue that their business (outside of maybe some contractors) did in fact build those roads or schools?
    Since you brought it up, I've listened to and read the transcripts of that little speech and either Obama had a severe falling down with his grammar with regards to context or I finally heard the man say what was really in his heart.

    That speech cuts across any line you want to declare and throws sand in the face of anyone that has toiled for a days wages let alone take the risk of building a business in this country. I haven't heard anything from anyone that has made me as angry as I was when I heard the full speech, not just the little choice bites we were fed in the headlines.

    I think that the reason that you don't hear much about this is that people are literally throwing their hands in the air in disgust and turning away from Obama, thank you Mr. President for finally pulling back the veil and giving us the transparency that you promised as a candidate.

    I have to apologize to you dbroncs, nothing personal, the man just struck a nerve with me.....
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliDevil71 View Post

    But here is a follow on question I have to this one, if anyone wants to answer. Why do blacks vote Democrat when the major urban cities they live in are controlled by Democrats, like Detriot. There is no Republican influence in this city whats so ever. It's all Democrats and the black community suffers, in proverty, education and violence. Why doesn't the Democrats feel some of the pain on this issue? I don't see how this is a Republicans fault......
    The same things can be said about poor whites who voted republicans into offices in the south. Many of those states are overwhelming control by republicans, yet these state ranks low in educations achievements, jobs and rural social programs, let poor whites keep voting the republicans in.

    On the democrats side, the talking head wonder why poor whites vote for a party that constantly work against them with propose cuts in education (head start, day-care and extra-school activities), social programs and wanting to privatize social security.

    In the middle of the BP oil spill incidents, one or two republicans elected officials had the balls to defend BP. Grant you, the democrats and Obama remained silence during it, but they didn't defend BP.

    All this talk about why blacks vote democrat is just B.S. Republicans never gave a damn about minorities over the last forty years and the democrats give lip service only to them. Both parties don't really give a damn about the working poor or the middle class in general whether they are black or white.

    If you think I full of crap, just ask yourself who benefited the most from the political system over the last forty years since Reagan? With all the de-regulation in banking, repeal of anti-monoploy laws and the outsourcing of american jobs, I would say big business.

    So it really doesn't matter which party you vote for, we all are being left behind.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    The same things can be said about poor whites who voted republicans into offices in the south. Many of those states are overwhelming control by republicans, yet these state ranks low in educations achievements, jobs and rural social programs, let poor whites keep voting the republicans in.

    On the democrats side, the talking head wonder why poor whites vote for a party that constantly work against them with propose cuts in education (head start, day-care and extra-school activities), social programs and wanting to privatize social security.

    In the middle of the BP oil spill incidents, one or two republicans elected officials had the balls to defend BP. Grant you, the democrats and Obama remained silence during it, but they didn't defend BP.

    All this talk about why blacks vote democrat is just B.S. Republicans never gave a damn about minorities over the last forty years and the democrats give lip service only to them. Both parties don't really give a damn about the working poor or the middle class in general whether they are black or white.

    If you think I full of crap, just ask yourself who benefited the most from the political system over the last forty years since Reagan? With all the de-regulation in banking, repeal of anti-monoploy laws and the outsourcing of american jobs, I would say big business.

    So it really doesn't matter which party you vote for, we all are being left behind.
    I think that we feel how we feel about the issues without regards to race and that it is not until they try to catagorize and catalog the results that race is brought in, just a by product as it were.

    I think that the examples that you gave are probably influenced by geography first and probably level of education second. Personally I see a lot of people of all races cutting to the nuts and bolts of the issues and not paying a whole lot of attention to the color of who said what.

    Race will only continue to be an issue as long as those that are in power have that as a card to play in the hand against those that are foolish enough to be bluffed.....
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by corralski View Post
    Since you brought it up, I've listened to and read the transcripts of that little speech and either Obama had a severe falling down with his grammar with regards to context or I finally heard the man say what was really in his heart.

    That speech cuts across any line you want to declare and throws sand in the face of anyone that has toiled for a days wages let alone take the risk of building a business in this country. I haven't heard anything from anyone that has made me as angry as I was when I heard the full speech, not just the little choice bites we were fed in the headlines.

    I think that the reason that you don't hear much about this is that people are literally throwing their hands in the air in disgust and turning away from Obama, thank you Mr. President for finally pulling back the veil and giving us the transparency that you promised as a candidate.

    I have to apologize to you dbroncs, nothing personal, the man just struck a nerve with me.....
    It's the truth... If you have a business you didn't build the roads and bridges. To build a campaign on a grammatical error, a hanging "that" shows how desperate Romney is. Hell Romney is quoted in stump speeches saying that those who have built businesses have gotten help, from teachers, from the infrastructure created by government...
    Last edited by flips333; 07-29-2012 at 01:12 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    It's the truth... If you have a business you didn't build the roads and bridges. To build a campaign on a grammatical error, a hanging "that" shows how desperate Romney is. Hell Romney is quoted in stump speeches saying that those who have built businesses have gotten help, from teachers, from the infrastructure created by government...
    This in no way shows Romney to be desperate. Obama said it on his own, without the teleprompter.

    If I can't take the man to task for his own words then what have we got?

    I'm sorry but he's not going to just walk away from this and remain president....
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  7. #82
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    Well gee I wonder why? Hmmm maybe because they are former Dixiecrats who are anti affirmative action haters like David Duke and Strom Thurmond ( hey the black lady who bore his denied child and relationship he had with her have the whole entire black community singing praise we all know)? Or maybe think that it is all fair and equal now that some rappers have made it big? Or maybe that they don't allow more then one in their social circle of friends, tell all their non caucasian friends that their black person is their very good friend just to show they are not racist? Not that I have facts to back this up but I once heard a rumor that The House were trying to get Legislation passed banning Archie Bunker's recliner from The Smithsonian because Sammy Davis jr and Mr. Jefferson once sat in it.... I am just saying!

    Gee I could go on but I don't want to keep scratching my head thinking about it. Maybe only The Shadow knows? As MC of the 5 shrug salute I award the pondering of this question worthy...

    Quote Originally Posted by corralski View Post
    This in no way shows
    MC Vet kicks it again.....
    Last edited by Raider_Vet; 07-29-2012 at 06:46 AM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    It's the truth... If you have a business you didn't build the roads and bridges. To build a campaign on a grammatical error, a hanging "that" shows how desperate Romney is. Hell Romney is quoted in stump speeches saying that those who have built businesses have gotten help, from teachers, from the infrastructure created by government...
    I thought the more damning part of Obama's speech was the "a lot of people are smart, a lot of people work hard" part.

    And, logically, Obama is making the argument for government to argue for any government. That is sort of a straw man. Republicans aren't advocating for no taxes and no government.

    Also. To the point of the thread, why doesn't anybody ever ask why the Democrats do so poorly with working class men?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    I thought the more damning part of Obama's speech was the "a lot of people are smart, a lot of people work hard" part.

    And, logically, Obama is making the argument for government to argue for any government. That is sort of a straw man. Republicans aren't advocating for no taxes and no government.

    Also. To the point of the thread, why doesn't anybody ever ask why the Democrats do so poorly with working class men?
    Yes. Alot of people are smart. A lot of people work hard. Success does contain a sense of the random.

    That argument isn't an argument... and it's the same thing that romney is saying.

    Have to modify that statement, Democrats do poorly with working class white men who aren't part of unions. Union members, minority working class hell Jewish working class all vote for the Dems. The rest... I think this sums up why.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...e-conservative

    It also touches on the audacity and elitism that is to the detriment of the democratic party, when liberals say that working class white folk are voting against their self interest by voting for people who share their a great many of their values.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by corralski View Post
    This in no way shows Romney to be desperate. Obama said it on his own, without the teleprompter.

    If I can't take the man to task for his own words then what have we got?

    I'm sorry but he's not going to just walk away from this and remain president....
    To be honest, if you can't listen to more than one clause... if you willfully misunderstand the point (that again, Romney has made in multiple speeches).... then you aren't a vote in play anyway. and hence don't really matter to either campaign, unless you have a million dollars to give out.

    picking up an out of context quote and trying to build an entire campaign on it is desperate.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    To be honest, if you can't listen to more than one clause... if you willfully misunderstand the point (that again, Romney has made in multiple speeches).... then you aren't a vote in play anyway. and hence don't really matter to either campaign, unless you have a million dollars to give out.

    picking up an out of context quote and trying to build an entire campaign on it is desperate.
    He said it, I didn't. How am I supposed to know that it was out of context and not a weak moment that he let it slip out?

    There are several other comments leading up to the "you didn't build that" part that support one to interpret the meaning as just that.

    If Obama had understood the amount of backlash from that comment and walked it back right away I would have to accept the explanation as any rational adult would. But c'mon man, two weeks later? And at least in my opinion he didn't address the comment directly except to say that he was in favor of giving credit to individual effort when it was earned?

    You are absolutely correct in that I was never going to vote for Obama, but if I am inclined to speak on this with some of my less informed friends whom have not made up their minds, well there you have it.

    It really is a shame for myself that I don't have a significant sum of money to contribute to Romney's campaign......
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  12. #87
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    I think it has to do with preconceived notions. People who already don't like or won't vote for the president want to attribute the comment to the business part. Whereas people who support the president want to attribute the comment to the roads/schools part.

    Now maybe its because I support the president, but it seems to me that it is more likely he was talking about the roads and schools than the businesses. But it definitely comes down to preconceived notions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I think it has to do with preconceived notions. People who already don't like or won't vote for the president want to attribute the comment to the business part. Whereas people who support the president want to attribute the comment to the roads/schools part.

    Now maybe its because I support the president, but it seems to me that it is more likely he was talking about the roads and schools than the businesses. But it definitely comes down to preconceived notions.
    And it certainly could have been walked back specifically to that point and wasn't.

    Your first paragraph was right on, I personally don't think the president favors capitalism and his statement taken as spoken does reinforce that. I have no intention of giving him the benefit of doubt on this one....
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    The same things can be said about poor whites who voted republicans into offices in the south. Many of those states are overwhelming control by republicans, yet these state ranks low in educations achievements, jobs and rural social programs, let poor whites keep voting the republicans in.

    On the democrats side, the talking head wonder why poor whites vote for a party that constantly work against them with propose cuts in education (head start, day-care and extra-school activities), social programs and wanting to privatize social security.

    In the middle of the BP oil spill incidents, one or two republicans elected officials had the balls to defend BP. Grant you, the democrats and Obama remained silence during it, but they didn't defend BP.

    All this talk about why blacks vote democrat is just B.S. Republicans never gave a damn about minorities over the last forty years and the democrats give lip service only to them. Both parties don't really give a damn about the working poor or the middle class in general whether they are black or white.

    If you think I full of crap, just ask yourself who benefited the most from the political system over the last forty years since Reagan? With all the de-regulation in banking, repeal of anti-monoploy laws and the outsourcing of american jobs, I would say big business.

    So it really doesn't matter which party you vote for, we all are being left behind
    .
    I totally agree with you in the bolded section. It really bothers me when I hear politicians try to divide the country and it's on both sides. It has totally gotten out of control. I hear everyday from my family who are Democrats (yes this makes a very interesting holiday periods), who keep telling me I am not rich and why do I vote Republican when they don't help me? My next question to them is, what have the Democrats doen for you? The poor is still poor. People are still doing with out and the rich on both sides are still doing well. I have my opinions to why we are in the postion that we are in, but what I don't understand is we are trapped in a two party system, but Independent voters out number both parties. I love debating and I have my reasons to why I vote conservative. It's very important to me, but I don't know why politicians get off on dividing the country like this. War on this....War on that.....People don't care about this, they don't care about that....Bottom line is......my Republican friends......the ones that i hang out with and assoiciate with ... black, brown, white.....we all care about fellow Americans. We care about their education, health care, jobs, etc...... none of those who I hang out with at Tea Party rally's judge people on race, where they sit socially, or anything else like that.

    But until we can all say enough is enough.....it's going to get worse before it gets better. As a Republican, I was happy to see a black man or any other nationality voted into office. It lasted maybe 5 mintues, but it was great thing. But what really kills me, is as much as I would have liked to believed that this country was past the race thing, it's not. We are far from it. I believe that I think the flame was burning out. I know we have still have racism in this country but it's not as it was back in the day, and the politicans have once again fanned that flame. There is no reason for it, and us as normal Americans need to see through this and not allow it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    As far as the r-word goes, I think you will find that plenty of Democrats are just as r-word-ous as Republicans but they tend to make it a personal thing that stays inside and doesn't enter the professional or political realm. That is how most people who are Democratic that I know handle things.

    As far as people who identify as black, I think many of the people you identified I respect. But I can't say that Allen West is one of them. He is as much a part of the problem as someone like Nancy Pelosi or most of the members of the CBC. It seems like every other attack out of Allen West's mouth is comparing something to slavery.

    Specifically to the Obama "you didn't build that" comment, most of the soundbytes left out the part about where he was referring to schools and roads. Which is anyone going to argue that their business (outside of maybe some contractors) did in fact build those roads or schools?
    Dbronco! My main man! First things first my brother!!! GO RAIDER NATION!!!

    D.....Allen West speaks what's on his mind. I have tremendous respect for him. I do share a lot of his views. I am probably going to get slammed on this, because this seems like a pretty hostile crowd up in here, but I've always said government social programs are like a drug. Once you are on it, it's hard ot get off of it. While I know some people need help, and I have no problem helping people. I am not rich, but I am doing better than some, so I don't forget where I came from and try to do as much as I can. But in my opinion, West is saying the hard things to say. You may not agree with it, as I can see here, but I expect to hear that from a leader. He is a little rough around the edges, but he is saying what he feels.

    As for you didn't build that. Obama is not a private sector guy. I think we all know that. He may claim to be, but he isn't. You didn't build that was all about government had something to do with it. It's funny, but I clearly hear this from all of my liberal friends. I remember, before he even said this, some making the same comments months ago. Business owners did build that on their own.....streets, education...etc was paid by tax payer dollars. Which I hope business owners did put into the ante. Probably a lot more than most people. He did mean to say that. Private sector....you didn't get there without government. Government allows you to be successful in this country. That is what I got from his speech. While I think that the private and public sectors both need each other, this man really opened up a hornets nest on this one.. LOL..

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