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  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    Love the DP turned on Albert. Wish Ryan had never left.

    How he isn't GG winner every year is beyond me...what a joke. At least the Bible gets it right.

    Don't see Seattle letting him walk or being traded though. As little offense as they score now, they definetly need his defense.

  2. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy15 View Post
    I have extremely strong doubts that Adams is traded for a bullpen arm at this time.

    We have a ton of pitchers at the moment and quite a few can be dominant relievers along with guys like Motte, Boggs and Mujica who have shown dominance.

    Only deal I see happening for Adams this offseason is for a SS/future SS
    If it was for a bullpen arm, it would be for 6 years of a bullpen arm. Not a one or two year term for a guy who is average and currently in the pen.

  3. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    If it was for a bullpen arm, it would be for 6 years of a bullpen arm. Not a one or two year term for a guy who is average and currently in the pen.
    Yep.

    I don't see a ton of trade value for Adams mostly because of him limitations of only being able to field 1B and play DH.

    But I think he can be used as a centerpiece for a better player. He will still have 20+ home run power and a lot of gap power in the makes IMO

  4. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy15 View Post
    I have extremely strong doubts that Adams is traded for a bullpen arm at this time.

    We have a ton of pitchers at the moment and quite a few can be dominant relievers along with guys like Motte, Boggs and Mujica who have shown dominance.

    Only deal I see happening for Adams this offseason is for a SS/future SS
    There has been quite a bit written about Asdrubal Cabrera going to the Cardinal, however, with the holidays, the amount of discussion has slowed considerably. The St Louis Post Dispatch (Strauss & Gooold), St Louis Today, Redbird Rants, Viva El Birdos, etc. have all written articles both promoting and poo-poo'ing a trade between the Indians and the Cardinals.. Without belaboring the point to the nth degree, but it's being couched by these sources that the Cardinals are in the driver's seat for a trade to happen.. or are they? Personally, I don't care who drives the bus, just as long as it gets to it's destination.. in this case, an equitable trade that satisfies both the current and future needs of both clubs has to be achieved for a deal to be struck. Specifically, the SS position.. In the end, simple works..

    Here's simple: Adrubal Cabrera alone to St Louis for Joe Kelly, Lance Lynn and Matt Carpenter. This deal was 'floated" by Moz and, imho, stupidly rejected by the Indians who wanted more. Well.. snooze you lose for the Indians. That is a trade that they should have done..

    Now, 6 weeks later.. the market has shifted some.. and there are more factors coming into play.. The Cardinals don't want to solve their SS position for only 2 years.. they want to extend the solution out into the future.. The Indians.. are dealing with just the opposite situation.. they want to solve their lack of SP talent, but they are focused more on what can be done to improve the team in 2013 or now !

    So, how does this work. Well?.. the Indians have the depth at the SS spot that fits the Cards needs.. the Cards have the major league ready talent the Indians need.. so:

    Cardinals get: Asdrubal Cabrera SS, Vinnie Pestano RP, Francisco Lindor SS
    Indians get: Jake Westbrook orJaime Garcia (pending a physical check out of Garcia..choice by the Indians), Joe Kelly, Lance Lynn, Matt Carpenter, Matt Adams, and Oscar Taveras.

    A match that fixes both teams needs usually has bias applied. Most Cardinals fans look at the loss of Westbrook as a "who cares.. good riddance..etc) In reality, both Jaime and Jake's AAV w/ options is about $ 9 MM / yr. Jake for two years.. Jaime for 5. If $ 9 MM is sent away with one of these two SP's, then the Cardinals would be easily able to resign Kyle Lohse, no problema.

    The bias part of the trade involves the two # 1 Prospects.. As much as St Louis fans want to claim OT is going to be the next great OF'er.. the same is being said about Lindor and his incredible ability at SS.. Indian fans rightfully state that SS is a premium position and should be worth more..while Cardinal fans state.. OT is READY RIGHT NOW.. Both arguments are biased.. and hold water..

    The purpose of this posting is to solicit response.. what say you?...

  5. #575
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    yeah thats way too much

    Cabrera for Kelly, Lynn and Carpenter is way too much too IMO.... im glad Cleveland said no if thats really what the deal was

  6. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    There has been quite a bit written about Asdrubal Cabrera going to the Cardinal, however, with the holidays, the amount of discussion has slowed considerably. The St Louis Post Dispatch (Strauss & Gooold), St Louis Today, Redbird Rants, Viva El Birdos, etc. have all written articles both promoting and poo-poo'ing a trade between the Indians and the Cardinals.. Without belaboring the point to the nth degree, but it's being couched by these sources that the Cardinals are in the driver's seat for a trade to happen.. or are they? Personally, I don't care who drives the bus, just as long as it gets to it's destination.. in this case, an equitable trade that satisfies both the current and future needs of both clubs has to be achieved for a deal to be struck. Specifically, the SS position.. In the end, simple works..

    Here's simple: Adrubal Cabrera alone to St Louis for Joe Kelly, Lance Lynn and Matt Carpenter. This deal was 'floated" by Moz and, imho, stupidly rejected by the Indians who wanted more. Well.. snooze you lose for the Indians. That is a trade that they should have done..

    Now, 6 weeks later.. the market has shifted some.. and there are more factors coming into play.. The Cardinals don't want to solve their SS position for only 2 years.. they want to extend the solution out into the future.. The Indians.. are dealing with just the opposite situation.. they want to solve their lack of SP talent, but they are focused more on what can be done to improve the team in 2013 or now !

    So, how does this work. Well?.. the Indians have the depth at the SS spot that fits the Cards needs.. the Cards have the major league ready talent the Indians need.. so:

    Cardinals get: Asdrubal Cabrera SS, Vinnie Pestano RP, Francisco Lindor SS
    Indians get: Jake Westbrook orJaime Garcia (pending a physical check out of Garcia..choice by the Indians), Joe Kelly, Lance Lynn, Matt Carpenter, Matt Adams, and Oscar Taveras.

    A match that fixes both teams needs usually has bias applied. Most Cardinals fans look at the loss of Westbrook as a "who cares.. good riddance..etc) In reality, both Jaime and Jake's AAV w/ options is about $ 9 MM / yr. Jake for two years.. Jaime for 5. If $ 9 MM is sent away with one of these two SP's, then the Cardinals would be easily able to resign Kyle Lohse, no problema.

    The bias part of the trade involves the two # 1 Prospects.. As much as St Louis fans want to claim OT is going to be the next great OF'er.. the same is being said about Lindor and his incredible ability at SS.. Indian fans rightfully state that SS is a premium position and should be worth more..while Cardinal fans state.. OT is READY RIGHT NOW.. Both arguments are biased.. and hold water..

    The purpose of this posting is to solicit response.. what say you?...

    I sincerely hope this was a joke because this is the most bias and lopsided deal I have ever seen posted in this forum lol it's just way to much from our side bro

    I'd give Adams easily and others. Just not that lopsided. We would be better off signing a SS every 1-3 years than taking this.

    Adams, Kelly would be a fair starting IMO for Cabrera. Maybe a little more but not much. We aren't that desperate, we can always sign guys via free agency to fill in till we get the right match in a trade or draft
    Last edited by Skippy15; 12-29-2012 at 08:09 PM.

  7. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy15 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    There has been quite a bit written about Asdrubal Cabrera going to the Cardinal, however, with the holidays, the amount of discussion has slowed considerably. The St Louis Post Dispatch (Strauss & Gooold), St Louis Today, Redbird Rants, Viva El Birdos, etc. have all written articles both promoting and poo-poo'ing a trade between the Indians and the Cardinals.. Without belaboring the point to the nth degree, but it's being couched by these sources that the Cardinals are in the driver's seat for a trade to happen.. or are they? Personally, I don't care who drives the bus, just as long as it gets to it's destination.. in this case, an equitable trade that satisfies both the current and future needs of both clubs has to be achieved for a deal to be struck. Specifically, the SS position.. In the end, simple works..

    Here's simple: Adrubal Cabrera alone to St Louis for Joe Kelly, Lance Lynn and Matt Carpenter. This deal was 'floated" by Moz and, imho, stupidly rejected by the Indians who wanted more. Well.. snooze you lose for the Indians. That is a trade that they should have done..

    Now, 6 weeks later.. the market has shifted some.. and there are more factors coming into play.. The Cardinals don't want to solve their SS position for only 2 years.. they want to extend the solution out into the future.. The Indians.. are dealing with just the opposite situation.. they want to solve their lack of SP talent, but they are focused more on what can be done to improve the team in 2013 or now !

    So, how does this work. Well?.. the Indians have the depth at the SS spot that fits the Cards needs.. the Cards have the major league ready talent the Indians need.. so:

    Cardinals get: Asdrubal Cabrera SS, Vinnie Pestano RP, Francisco Lindor SS
    Indians get: Jake Westbrook orJaime Garcia (pending a physical check out of Garcia..choice by the Indians), Joe Kelly, Lance Lynn, Matt Carpenter, Matt Adams, and Oscar Taveras.

    A match that fixes both teams needs usually has bias applied. Most Cardinals fans look at the loss of Westbrook as a "who cares.. good riddance..etc) In reality, both Jaime and Jake's AAV w/ options is about $ 9 MM / yr. Jake for two years.. Jaime for 5. If $ 9 MM is sent away with one of these two SP's, then the Cardinals would be easily able to resign Kyle Lohse, no problema.

    The bias part of the trade involves the two # 1 Prospects.. As much as St Louis fans want to claim OT is going to be the next great OF'er.. the same is being said about Lindor and his incredible ability at SS.. Indian fans rightfully state that SS is a premium position and should be worth more..while Cardinal fans state.. OT is READY RIGHT NOW.. Both arguments are biased.. and hold water..

    The purpose of this posting is to solicit response.. what say you?...

    I sincerely hope this was a joke because this is the most bias and lopsided deal I have ever seen posted in this forum lol it's just way to much from our side bro

    I'd give Adams easily and others. Just not that lopsided. We would be better off signing a SS every 1-3 years than taking this.

    Adams, Kelly would be a fair starting IMO for Cabrera. Maybe a little more but not much. We aren't that desperate, we can always sign guys via free agency to fill in till we get the right match in a trade or draft
    Why would we give that much up for Cabrera where we could prolly give up less and get either tulo or Andrus. How can you justify the #2 prospect and one could argue should be #1 prospect in baseball going for a deal were the center piece is asdrubal Cabrera you need to take your homer shades off and wake up from your dream world buddy

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  8. #578
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    ...I sincerely hope this was a joke because this is the most bias and lopsided deal I have ever seen posted in this forum lol it's just way to much from our side bro ....
    Well, it's not a joke.. and it's not a lot of things, especially the worst or best or any other form of hyperbole you can bring in describing the content. That kind of response is immature.

    And the reason why you make trades is to improve your club. Peter Kozma COST THE CARDINALS BIGTIME in 2012...

    You know it..

    & anyone who saw that display knows it..

    ..and it wasn't the SS that you signed every 1 to 3 years that was the subject of this thread. TRY TO FOCUS. The suggested trade came FROM ST LOUIS. BRO.

    .. and over valuing prospects in trade for established ML players, mutliple all star selections, etc.. is clear indication of drinking the Red Kool-aid... You're kidding yourself if you think you can get Tulo or Andrus... HILARIOUS over statement and over valuation of prospects, and the sad part about this is you know it, too, smh... Sounds like you're the one dreaming of Tulo-faeries dancing in your fantasy world...

  9. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    Well, it's not a joke.. and it's not a lot of things, especially the worst or best or any other form of hyperbole you can bring in describing the content. That kind of response is immature.

    And the reason why you make trades is to improve your club. Peter Kozma COST THE CARDINALS BIGTIME in 2012...

    You know it..

    & anyone who saw that display knows it..

    ..and it wasn't the SS that you signed every 1 to 3 years that was the subject of this thread. TRY TO FOCUS. The suggested trade came FROM ST LOUIS. BRO.

    .. and over valuing prospects in trade for established ML players, mutliple all star selections, etc.. is clear indication of drinking the Red Kool-aid... You're kidding yourself if you think you can get Tulo or Andrus... HILARIOUS over statement and over valuation of prospects, and the sad part about this is you know it, too, smh... Sounds like you're the one dreaming of Tulo-faeries dancing in your fantasy world...
    Cabrera is in no way in Hell worth the top hitting prospect in Baseball. Our over evaluation of prospects could be the difference between a World Champion team like the Cardinals who lose the best hitter of all time and still have the best Offense in the National League and a perennial cellar dweller like the Indians. The best you would get from us for cabrera would be kelly adams and maybe a low level spec other then that ill take furcal over and over pay any day

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  10. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    And the reason why you make trades is to improve your club. Peter Kozma COST THE CARDINALS BIGTIME in 2012...
    Good thing Kozma's not even a starter then, huh? Or really even a major league player (had Furcal not gotten injured, and I hardly expect him to be next year either). If Furcal gets injured again, then the team might be able to justify completely overspending for a replacement. But to do so when they already have a perfectly fine starting shortstop? Nah.
    Last edited by bda28; 12-30-2012 at 12:34 AM.

  11. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    There has been quite a bit written about Asdrubal Cabrera going to the Cardinal, however, with the holidays, the amount of discussion has slowed considerably. The St Louis Post Dispatch (Strauss & Gooold), St Louis Today, Redbird Rants, Viva El Birdos, etc. have all written articles both promoting and poo-poo'ing a trade between the Indians and the Cardinals.. Without belaboring the point to the nth degree, but it's being couched by these sources that the Cardinals are in the driver's seat for a trade to happen.. or are they? Personally, I don't care who drives the bus, just as long as it gets to it's destination.. in this case, an equitable trade that satisfies both the current and future needs of both clubs has to be achieved for a deal to be struck. Specifically, the SS position.. In the end, simple works..

    Here's simple: Adrubal Cabrera alone to St Louis for Joe Kelly, Lance Lynn and Matt Carpenter. This deal was 'floated" by Moz and, imho, stupidly rejected by the Indians who wanted more. Well.. snooze you lose for the Indians. That is a trade that they should have done..

    Now, 6 weeks later.. the market has shifted some.. and there are more factors coming into play.. The Cardinals don't want to solve their SS position for only 2 years.. they want to extend the solution out into the future.. The Indians.. are dealing with just the opposite situation.. they want to solve their lack of SP talent, but they are focused more on what can be done to improve the team in 2013 or now !

    So, how does this work. Well?.. the Indians have the depth at the SS spot that fits the Cards needs.. the Cards have the major league ready talent the Indians need.. so:

    Cardinals get: Asdrubal Cabrera SS, Vinnie Pestano RP, Francisco Lindor SS
    Indians get: Jake Westbrook orJaime Garcia (pending a physical check out of Garcia..choice by the Indians), Joe Kelly, Lance Lynn, Matt Carpenter, Matt Adams, and Oscar Taveras.

    A match that fixes both teams needs usually has bias applied. Most Cardinals fans look at the loss of Westbrook as a "who cares.. good riddance..etc) In reality, both Jaime and Jake's AAV w/ options is about $ 9 MM / yr. Jake for two years.. Jaime for 5. If $ 9 MM is sent away with one of these two SP's, then the Cardinals would be easily able to resign Kyle Lohse, no problema.

    The bias part of the trade involves the two # 1 Prospects.. As much as St Louis fans want to claim OT is going to be the next great OF'er.. the same is being said about Lindor and his incredible ability at SS.. Indian fans rightfully state that SS is a premium position and should be worth more..while Cardinal fans state.. OT is READY RIGHT NOW.. Both arguments are biased.. and hold water..

    The purpose of this posting is to solicit response.. what say you?...
    Taveras is the Cardinals 2014 RFer and beyond. He isn't going to be moved, he is the top, or one of the top prospects in the game, and he is close. His value is higher than Lindor's who has a floor of not even reaching the big leagues still (obviously). They are not equal prospects.

    I like Pestano, but I see no reason to add him. We have 3 guys just like him, and another 3 more in the minors that are close.

    Cabrera is an attractive piece for us, but we still have Furcal. We are going to trade this much for two years of Cabrera? And when we still have Furcal in 2013? Not likely.

    Westbrook and Jaime's trade values are no where close to the same. Jaime, when healthy (and he has been until this season) has been one of the best pitchers in the game. Westbrook is almost literally a bottom 30 starter in the game who routinely gets lucky. He is not a good pitcher, and Jaime is actually good. And one is signed for awhile with team friendly team options, the other has a bad contract mostly for us, and was stupidly extended for one more season. They do not have the same trade value.


    So why would we add in Kelly and Lynn to this? And Adams?


    This isn't a fair trade offer, I'm sorry.


    Lynn OR Kelly + Adams + Jenkins is all that we would likely offer for Cabrera. It probably doesn't make sense for the Indians, but that's all that would make sense for the Cardinals. Cabrera is a nice player, but he isn't a huge need. It's our only weak position, and yes we want a long term solution. But we aren't going to weaken another aspect of our organization to get something we can add in free agency, and we aren't going to do it when we have a decent shortstop for the next season already under contract and appears to be healthy.
    Last edited by Jeffy25; 12-30-2012 at 01:05 AM.

  12. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    And the reason why you make trades is to improve your club. Peter Kozma COST THE CARDINALS BIGTIME in 2012...
    He also got us into the post-season and was probably the best player in the NLDS for us who helped to carry us to the NLCS, see what he did in Game 5?


    that, and he isn't our starter next year, I bet he doesn't get 200 PA next year.

    .. and over valuing prospects in trade for established ML players, mutliple all star selections, etc.. is clear indication of drinking the Red Kool-aid... You're kidding yourself if you think you can get Tulo or Andrus... HILARIOUS over statement and over valuation of prospects, and the sad part about this is you know it, too, smh... Sounds like you're the one dreaming of Tulo-faeries dancing in your fantasy world...
    You have us moving the top prospect in baseball plus another 5 controllable players. That is worth a multi-all-star. Not that Andrus or Tulo makes any sense either. But you have us unloading waaaay too much talent for two years of Cabrera, and when we only need one of his years all that badly.

    Lindor was the only piece that I would have really wanted in your trade scenario. He is a lot like Andrus.

  13. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    Well, it's not a joke.. and it's not a lot of things, especially the worst or best or any other form of hyperbole you can bring in describing the content. That kind of response is immature.

    And the reason why you make trades is to improve your club. Peter Kozma COST THE CARDINALS BIGTIME in 2012...

    You know it..

    & anyone who saw that display knows it..

    ..and it wasn't the SS that you signed every 1 to 3 years that was the subject of this thread. TRY TO FOCUS. The suggested trade came FROM ST LOUIS. BRO.

    .. and over valuing prospects in trade for established ML players, mutliple all star selections, etc.. is clear indication of drinking the Red Kool-aid... You're kidding yourself if you think you can get Tulo or Andrus... HILARIOUS over statement and over valuation of prospects, and the sad part about this is you know it, too, smh... Sounds like you're the one dreaming of Tulo-faeries dancing in your fantasy world...
    I guess I missed the part where I suggested we go out and get Tulowitzki or Andrus. Even though I've had several arguments with people over why Cabrera is a better fit for us than either of those players

    Oh and how dare point out we would be better off signing a SS every few years than taking the terrible deal you suggested. (That has never come out of st.louis, I don't know why you think your an mlb insider) but hey this isn't the cardinals forum right? You know everything we talk about in here right? You know of course we talk about more than just the actual trades and what better options than trades would be, right?

    You over valuing your players. Your deal is terrible. Get over it and if you can't take criticism like a big boy you probably shouldn't be on the Internet.

    You wanna call other people immature but then you a criticized and you freak out and start pointing fingers. Hmmm. Maybe you should read the entire thread before posting terrible suggestions like this. Because we've discussed Cabrera in here and very much in the off season thread. You would know that no one would take that horribly pathetic deal

  14. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy15 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    Well, it's not a joke.. and it's not a lot of things, especially the worst or best or any other form of hyperbole you can bring in describing the content. That kind of response is immature.

    And the reason why you make trades is to improve your club. Peter Kozma COST THE CARDINALS BIGTIME in 2012...

    You know it..

    & anyone who saw that display knows it..

    ..and it wasn't the SS that you signed every 1 to 3 years that was the subject of this thread. TRY TO FOCUS. The suggested trade came FROM ST LOUIS. BRO.

    .. and over valuing prospects in trade for established ML players, mutliple all star selections, etc.. is clear indication of drinking the Red Kool-aid... You're kidding yourself if you think you can get Tulo or Andrus... HILARIOUS over statement and over valuation of prospects, and the sad part about this is you know it, too, smh... Sounds like you're the one dreaming of Tulo-faeries dancing in your fantasy world...
    I guess I missed the part where I suggested we go out and get Tulowitzki or Andrus. Even though I've had several arguments with people over why Cabrera is a better fit for us than either of those players

    Oh and how dare point out we would be better off signing a SS every few years than taking the terrible deal you suggested. (That has never come out of st.louis, I don't know why you think your an mlb insider) but hey this isn't the cardinals forum right? You know everything we talk about in here right? You know of course we talk about more than just the actual trades and what better options than trades would be, right?

    You over valuing your players. Your deal is terrible. Get over it and if you can't take criticism like a big boy you probably shouldn't be on the Internet.

    You wanna call other people immature but then you a criticized and you freak out and start pointing fingers. Hmmm. Maybe you should read the entire thread before posting terrible suggestions like this. Because we've discussed Cabrera in here and very much in the off season thread. You would know that no one would take that horribly pathetic deal
    I was the one that said we could probably get tulo or Andrus for a better deal then what he was demanding

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    Do you guys think the Cards and WSox could match up in a deal for Matt Carpenter?

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