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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Then why has there been rumors that you are interested? You obviously think higher of your players than reporters who know a hell of a lot more than you do.
    He is a pitcher that is available, and because there are teams that had scouts at his last start (Cardinals being one of them). It doesn't mean teams are interested in him. These teams could have been scouting Ichiro, Vargas, League, Kelly, Camp etc. A number of pitchers. And just because there was a rumor about it, which also could have just been a reporting making **** up (that happens every single year ya know). It doesn't mean that he has value at the trade deadline. He is a likely non-tender candidate at the end of this year.



    A half a year a Dempster is worth a major league ready top 50 prospect, so 1.5 years of Vargas is worth someone not in the top 100. Pitching goes for more than it should around this time.
    Delgado for Dempster hasn't happened yet, and it was simply rumored that it was Delgado for Dempster. We don't actually know that yet.

    And Dempster is a full run better than Vargas every 9 innings. That's a fairly large difference.


    Why would you not trade from strength to help your weakness? And dont say you have people as good as Vargas cause you dont. They are both unproven.
    We easily have better options than Vargas. Kelly and Dickson are just as good if not slightly better, and both of them are bullpen valuable pitchers to us. Vargas is not of need to us. I could see Moz getting him to shore things up, but I wouldn't agree with it, like I didn't agree with getting Westbrook when we did.

    Vargas has been above average if you take away his one bad start in Arizona.

    2012 League Ranks:
    7th in AL in W (10)
    3rd in AL in IP (138.0)
    10th in AL in WHIP (1.20)
    9th in AL in CG (1)
    ******** he has been above league average. Nothing about him is above league average other than his walk rate, and that doesn't help his K/BB enough to matter.

    5.93 K/9 - league average is 7.50 K/9
    2.48 BB/9 - league average is 3.09 BB/9
    2.39 K/BB - league average is 2.43 K/BB
    1.63 HR/9 - league average is 1.02 HR/9
    4.95 FIP - league average is 4.01 FIP
    4.40 xFIP - league average is 4.01 xFIP



    You are not understanding that in order to make a successful trade, you have to actually help the team you are trading with. You have to help them fill a need. This isn't MLB the Show, or a video game. Vargas doesn't help the Cardinals out at all. It makes sense that Moz would have an interest in him, because Moz thinks that all the available pitchers on the market are too expensive, so he sets his sights on the guy further down the totem pole in asking price. It doesn't mean he is worth anything more.

    You do what Skippy suggested. Ask fans in other sections of this forum what they would give up for Vargas. Adams would be the prize of the offers, and we wouldn't even give you him.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by cards7 View Post
    Reports is that Roberts is about to be traded somewhere. He is worth a look. I think with Skip playing real well so far at 2B, I think the FO is leaning towards the right handed hitting CF. I guess anything to get rid of Tyler Greene is alright with me. Is there any team what could use Tyler Greene?
    Nope. No one needs a Tyler Greene lol

    But I know they really want a right handed CF to go with jay but he hits lefties well, skip could be the 2B starter, Skip could backup jay with Beltran their occasdionally. Roberts could play 2B when lefties pitch, or pinch hit.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Skippy, you at least know what you are talking about. JoeDirt, not so much.
    Do you really want to wait a month before an underperforming Garcia is back?

    Vargas has been better than Wainwright this year. He is worth a lot more than low level specs like joe seems to think. I'm not even going to address him anymore because he doesn't know what is going on.

    Skippy, what about Vargas, League and Brad Miller for Adams, Rosenthal and Dickson/robinson or someone like that? I think that is fair. If you say it is crazy, then you have a very flawed view of players value.
    Look at what half a year of dempster got/could get the cubs. A top 50 future top of the rotation starter.
    Why do you want Adams so bad?

    Because Smoak is still struggling?

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Can Rosenthal start? Or is he BP from here?
    Started throughout the minors, but his upside is as a 4th starter at best, 5 more likely, and a long reliever is the most likely destination for him.


    But I said those exact words about Lance Lynn 12 months ago, and look at him.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Why do you want Adams so bad?

    Because Smoak is still struggling?
    I completely forgot about him being there lol

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by cards7 View Post
    I would love to get Buehrle. I think the Cardinals ownership said that they'd be willing to take on payroll. Maybe pay more to the Marlins. Kind of want to keep Adams. Maybe swap a pitching prospect in for Adams give them Cox along with alot of money and a PTBNL.
    give me Johnson, I don't want Marky Mark's payroll unless the Marlins are paying 60%+ for it.

    I want Johnson and would unload some solid specs for him.

    He is better than Marky Mark and is paid less. Has injury issues, but he is Wainwright good when healthy.

  7. #247
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    I think we can lay this Vargas thing to rest.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    give me Johnson, I don't want Marky Mark's payroll unless the Marlins are paying 60%+ for it.

    I want Johnson and would unload some solid specs for him.

    He is better than Marky Mark and is paid less. Has injury issues, but he is Wainwright good when healthy.
    Johnson is a really good option. Probably would be a good bounce back type guy in St. Louis. Is Johnson under team control/contract for awhile? I would also give up some quality prospects for him, but this year Mo isn't going to go that route. I think that is why Buehrle is attractive because he won't cost a lot of prospects to get just more money. For me, I think I'd rather take on the payroll than give up prospects depending on Johnson's contract situation/under team control.

    Plus i feel like teams like Toronto, Yankees, Angels, and Red Sox will be able to get him over us. I think if Hamels/Greinke doesn't resign they will probably go first before Johnson gets traded.
    Last edited by cards7; 07-24-2012 at 06:48 PM.

  9. #249
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    I see that Josh Johnson isn't a free agent until after the 2013 season. So after thinking about it Josh Johnson would be more appealing but the cost of obtaining him would be too high for Mo.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by cards7 View Post
    Johnson is a really good option. Probably would be a good bounce back type guy in St. Louis. Is Johnson under team control/contract for awhile? I would also give up some quality prospects for him, but this year Mo isn't going to go that route. I think that is why Buehrle is attractive because he won't cost a lot of prospects to get just more money. For me, I think I'd rather take on the payroll than give up prospects depending on Johnson's contract situation/under team control.

    Plus i feel like teams like Toronto, Yankees, Angels, and Red Sox will be able to get him over us. I think if Hamels/Greinke doesn't resign they will probably go first before Johnson gets traded.
    Johnson is signed for 13.75 million for next year.

    He would be worth Miller, Wong, and Jenkins in terms of value (I am not saying what I would offer, but rather what the market would likely yield for him).

    Moz said he wouldn't give up specs for a rental. We would have Johnson for two playoff runs. That has a little more value.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy15 View Post
    I completely forgot about him being there lol
    he just got sent down yesterday

    Michael Wacha

    5-5, 2.79 Era, 83 So, 1.12 Whip

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Johnson is signed for 13.75 million for next year.

    He would be worth Miller, Wong, and Jenkins in terms of value (I am not saying what I would offer, but rather what the market would likely yield for him).

    Moz said he wouldn't give up specs for a rental. We would have Johnson for two playoff runs. That has a little more value.
    If I was aware I definitely would rather had Johnson than mark B. Thought he was in contract year

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Skippy, you at least know what you are talking about. JoeDirt, not so much.
    Do you really want to wait a month before an underperforming Garcia is back?

    Vargas has been better than Wainwright this year. He is worth a lot more than low level specs like joe seems to think. I'm not even going to address him anymore because he doesn't know what is going on.

    Skippy, what about Vargas, League and Brad Miller for Adams, Rosenthal and Dickson/robinson or someone like that? I think that is fair. If you say it is crazy, then you have a very flawed view of players value.
    Look at what half a year of dempster got/could get the cubs. A top 50 future top of the rotation starter.

    if i dont know what im talking about whats that say about you? by thinking you can get adams, rosenthal/jenkins for vargas and a scrub makes you look like a man who needs to stay off the wacky weed right across the river over in washington


    Michael Wacha

    5-5, 2.79 Era, 83 So, 1.12 Whip

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDirt05 View Post
    if i dont know what im talking about whats that say about you? by thinking you can get adams, rosenthal/jenkins for vargas and a scrub makes you look like a man who needs to stay off the wacky weed right across the river over in washington

    While I don't see League for as a scrub lol it definitely would be a mariners favorited deal. Unfortunately if the pressure grows big enough I could see Mo doing it, hopefully not

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy15 View Post
    While I don't see League for as a scrub lol it definitely would be a mariners favorited deal. Unfortunately if the pressure grows big enough I could see Mo doing it, hopefully not
    Mo has always been good at the deadline for us and never seems to make a desperation move he seems to take the deadline as if its a marathon rather then a race and I have 100% faith he will end up doing a responsible move/beneficial move rather then an emergency/crazy move.

    Michael Wacha

    5-5, 2.79 Era, 83 So, 1.12 Whip

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