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  1. #196
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    Then why has there been rumors that you are interested? You obviously think higher of your players than reporters who know a hell of a lot more than you do.

    A half a year a Dempster is worth a major league ready top 50 prospect, so 1.5 years of Vargas is worth someone not in the top 100. Pitching goes for more than it should around this time.

    Why would you not trade from strength to help your weakness? And dont say you have people as good as Vargas cause you dont. They are both unproven.

    Vargas has been above average if you take away his one bad start in Arizona.

    2012 League Ranks:
    • 7th in AL in W (10)
    • 3rd in AL in IP (138.0)
    • 10th in AL in WHIP (1.20)
    • 9th in AL in CG (1)
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Then why has there been rumors that you are interested? You obviously think higher of your players than reporters who know a hell of a lot more than you do.

    A half a year a Dempster is worth a major league ready top 50 prospect, so 1.5 years of Vargas is worth someone not in the top 100. Pitching goes for more than it should around this time.

    Why would you not trade from strength to help your weakness? And dont say you have people as good as Vargas cause you dont. They are both unproven.
    Vargas has been above average if you take away his one bad start in Arizona.

    2012 League Ranks:
    7th in AL in W (10)
    3rd in AL in IP (138.0)
    10th in AL in WHIP (1.20)
    9th in AL in CG (1)

    Well we have people performing as starters right now. We don't need Vargas because our SP situation is just fine right now. Garcia will be back in about of month and until then Joe Kelly will fill in and I think hes pitched 6 consecutive quality starts which is more then we could have ever hoped from him. So once Garcia comes back we have 6 starters on the mlb team. So why again is Vargas an upgrade? I'm just trying to understand

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Vargas is better than either of those guys.
    Is everyone in here a huge homer? Just because they are on the Cards doesn't mean they are good.

    What If I said Shelby miller won't be any more than a number 3 starter? I bet you guys will flip. He hasn't been than impressive in the minors, especially this year.
    it still means we are better then the mariners and this is coming from a person who's entire family is mariner fans i know what im talking about when it involves them. The mariners just let players walk and dont reload, the cards continue to reload every year and that is why we are one of the top franchises in all of sports let alone baseball.

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  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Then why has there been rumors that you are interested? You obviously think higher of your players than reporters who know a hell of a lot more than you do.

    A half a year a Dempster is worth a major league ready top 50 prospect, so 1.5 years of Vargas is worth someone not in the top 100. Pitching goes for more than it should around this time.

    Why would you not trade from strength to help your weakness? And dont say you have people as good as Vargas cause you dont. They are both unproven.

    Vargas has been above average if you take away his one bad start in Arizona.

    2012 League Ranks:
    • 7th in AL in W (10)
    • 3rd in AL in IP (138.0)
    • 10th in AL in WHIP (1.20)
    • 9th in AL in CG (1)
    Lol yeah and like Rosenthal said, the cardinals have checked in on about EVERY starter, so that would explain why we would check in. Does that mean we will trade for dempster, Greinke, Johnson, edison volquez and The closer Huston street? when you need starters you will check on anyone available. But please tell me more about how great Vargas is all knowing jej

    Plus wins, and his league stats mean nothing as far as rankings. Let's look at in all of baseball. Since your taking away half the pitchers to match up against

    30th in MLB in whip (1.20)
    54th in strike outs (91)
    39th in walks (38)
    41st in BAA (.249)
    18th in earned runs allowed (60) from most to least ordered
    And the beauty
    1st in home runs (25)
    Like I've said before hes a great inning eater, 4th in baseball. But it's not what we need and he's a useless starter to us. He's average. We have average starters. Makes no sense to trade for a lateral move.

    And yes, Kelly has 8 starts and has proven he can do what Vargas has done. Vargas has been a ok pitcher at best, something Kelly can do, Be an ok pitcher. A the very least he doesn't give up th home runs like Vargas, in our division, that's killer.

    What I really love is how you come into our forum, every one tells you little to no interest so instead of just accepting that you keep trying to push that Vargas is an upgrade over Kelly with no stats to prove it. He's slightly better than Kelly but Vargas isn't worth trading Adams to have him. Especially since I doubt he'd better here, pitching away from safeco. Busch is a pitchers park but not like safeco

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy15 View Post
    Lol yeah and like Rosenthal said, the cardinals have checked in on about EVERY starter, so that would explain why we would check in. Does that mean we will trade for dempster, Greinke, Johnson, edison volquez and The closer Huston street? when you need starters you will check on anyone available. But please tell me more about how great Vargas is all knowing jej

    Plus wins, and his league stats mean nothing as far as rankings. Let's look at in all of baseball. Since your taking away half the pitchers to match up against

    30th in MLB in whip (1.20)
    54th in strike outs (91)
    39th in walks (38)
    41st in BAA (.249)
    18th in earned runs allowed (60) from most to least ordered
    And the beauty
    1st in home runs (25)
    Like I've said before hes a great inning eater, 4th in baseball. But it's not what we need and he's a useless starter to us. He's average. We have average starters. Makes no sense to trade for a lateral move.

    And yes, Kelly has 8 starts and has proven he can do what Vargas has done. Vargas has been a ok pitcher at best, something Kelly can do, Be an ok pitcher. A the very least he doesn't give up th home runs like Vargas, in our division, that's killer.

    What I really love is how you come into our forum, every one tells you little to no interest so instead of just accepting that you keep trying to push that Vargas is an upgrade over Kelly with no stats to prove it. He's slightly better than Kelly but Vargas isn't worth trading Adams to have him. Especially since I doubt he'd better here, pitching away from safeco. Busch is a pitchers park but not like safeco
    i love when you bust out the stats

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  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy15 View Post
    Lol yeah and like Rosenthal said, the cardinals have checked in on about EVERY starter, so that would explain why we would check in. Does that mean we will trade for dempster, Greinke, Johnson, edison volquez and The closer Huston street? when you need starters you will check on anyone available. But please tell me more about how great Vargas is all knowing jej

    Plus wins, and his league stats mean nothing as far as rankings. Let's look at in all of baseball. Since your taking away half the pitchers to match up against

    30th in MLB in whip (1.20)
    54th in strike outs (91)
    39th in walks (38)
    41st in BAA (.249)
    18th in earned runs allowed (60) from most to least ordered
    And the beauty
    1st in home runs (25)
    Like I've said before hes a great inning eater, 4th in baseball. But it's not what we need and he's a useless starter to us. He's average. We have average starters. Makes no sense to trade for a lateral move.

    And yes, Kelly has 8 starts and has proven he can do what Vargas has done. Vargas has been a ok pitcher at best, something Kelly can do, Be an ok pitcher. A the very least he doesn't give up th home runs like Vargas, in our division, that's killer.

    What I really love is how you come into our forum, every one tells you little to no interest so instead of just accepting that you keep trying to push that Vargas is an upgrade over Kelly with no stats to prove it. He's slightly better than Kelly but Vargas isn't worth trading Adams to have him. Especially since I doubt he'd better here, pitching away from safeco. Busch is a pitchers park but not like safeco
    the only chance he would have would be if dave was here but he isnt
    Last edited by JoeDirt05; 07-24-2012 at 02:47 PM.

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  7. #202
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    Dave might have been able to, idk. He's not a sinker ball or ground all pitcher. He's a fly ball pitcher but the problem is he doesn't really have a ground ball pitch and people are squaring his pitches well and driving him out.

    Like I said would I be overly surprised to see the cards make a deal for him? No. But that doesn't make it a smart trade.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy15 View Post
    Dave might have been able to, idk. He's not a sinker ball or ground all pitcher. He's a fly ball pitcher but the problem is he doesn't really have a ground ball pitch and people are squaring his pitches well and driving him out.

    Like I said would I be overly surprised to see the cards make a deal for him? No. But that doesn't make it a smart trade.
    if we did make a deal for him it would probably involve low level/ low level talent prospects nothing in the form of adams

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  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDirt05 View Post
    if we did make a deal for him it would probably involve low level/ low level talent prospects nothing in the form of adams
    I could see him being part of a deal to add him and prospects for Adams and other prospects but straight up, hell no

  10. #205
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    Skippy, you at least know what you are talking about. JoeDirt, not so much.
    Do you really want to wait a month before an underperforming Garcia is back?

    Vargas has been better than Wainwright this year. He is worth a lot more than low level specs like joe seems to think. I'm not even going to address him anymore because he doesn't know what is going on.

    Skippy, what about Vargas, League and Brad Miller for Adams, Rosenthal and Dickson/robinson or someone like that? I think that is fair. If you say it is crazy, then you have a very flawed view of players value.
    Look at what half a year of dempster got/could get the cubs. A top 50 future top of the rotation starter.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Skippy, you at least know what you are talking about. JoeDirt, not so much.
    Do you really want to wait a month before an underperforming Garcia is back?

    Vargas has been better than Wainwright this year. He is worth a lot more than low level specs like joe seems to think. I'm not even going to address him anymore because he doesn't know what is going on.

    Skippy, what about Vargas, League and Brad Miller for Adams, Rosenthal and Dickson/robinson or someone like that? I think that is fair. If you say it is crazy, then you have a very flawed view of players value.
    Look at what half a year of dempster got/could get the cubs. A top 50 future top of the rotation starter.
    I think that deal is much more fair deal than the original and if I was a GM I would definitely accept that for an opening proposal then hammer some stuff out. But I'm not big on giving up Rosenthal.

    I'd counter with Vargas, league and Miller for Adams, Dickson and Jenkins. Then see what they counter with.

  12. #207
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    I think they would take that too. Jenkins has a lot of raw upside, but he has struggled this year. I think the mariners organization could turn him into an ace.

    Why do you value Rosenthal over Jenkins? Because he is closer? I mean, I think we would agree Jenkins upside is higher.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  13. #208
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    For me that deals centerpiece though is Miller and League. I think Miller has decent potential and League. I don't like the rental part of league though

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    I think they would take that too. Jenkins has a lot of raw upside, but he has struggled this year. I think the mariners organization could turn him into an ace.

    Why do you value Rosenthal over Jenkins? Because he is closer? I mean, I think we would agree Jenkins upside is higher.
    Jenkins has higher upside but I heard the same thing about Rasmus for years and bought into myself. I like Jenkins but i see Rosenthal as a dominant bullpen arm and a much more sure thing than Jenkins.

  15. #210
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    Plus I feel like with miller, Martinez (maybe a starter), Kelly, Garcia, Lynn we have plenty of young starters that we could trade away a high potential but unsure piece

    Plus Swagerty, Rosenthal, Gast, Seth Blair, Cleto, And more. We just simply have a ton of young arms
    Last edited by Skippy15; 07-24-2012 at 04:14 PM.

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