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  1. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy:24930059
    Quote Originally Posted by Knowledge View Post
    Vuce put up similar numbers per 36 last year. Even his advanced stuff is around the same as it was last year, he is just getting more PT. It looks like he is a little getting better as the season progresses though which should happen since he is getting more accustomed to the NBA.

    DC doesn't believe in playing rooks though so he stayed with Spence Soft last year. Then he got his hands on Kwame and said we were way more physical (even without Bynum). Another prime example of why coaches should coach and not evaluate talent.
    Well I mean thats key for any young player.

    Look at what Mcgee averages PER 36, but he never can stay on the court for 30 minutes for various reasons.

    Alot of players have great PER 36 stats, and while its nice to look at to project sometimes, Vuvecic is actually DOING it putting up almost 11 & 11 in 31mpg on good efficiency.
    Nobody can do anything unless you're given the chance.

    McGee gets benched because of his showboating/boneheaded plays, FT shooting, and foul trouble, but that doesn't mean he isn't the best option at center for the nuggets.

    With all of that said, does per 36 guarantee production? No, especially when you're dealing with small sample sizes. But when you are as limited as we are at the center position, I would rather we play rookies and let them make mistakes, then to keep throwing out limited veterans who have already hit their ceiling.

    Vuce also had a high foul rate last year. Now he better in that area, is rebounding better, and has a higher shooting percentage (his numbers look a even better after that 20/20 game). But there were still games last year where he should have been used over the floundering spencer hawes who saw his production drastically drop after he came back from injury.
    Last edited by Knowledge; 01-01-2013 at 08:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Hinkie
    "I'm probably pretty boring to watch a game with because I''m all about expected values. I don''t even care if it goes in or not, I'm all about, '全hould it go in?'' I can live with randomness. I mean, if it''s a close game in the end, yeah, I''m just like anyone else. But I just want us to play the odds all the time."
    TerminH1NK13


  2. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsy:24932331
    I love all these people that all of sudden love Vuc and miss him now. Last year and on draft night when we drafted him there were all kinds of people ripping the pick and fast forward to today and the hypocrites on here praising him. I would love to bring up the draft thread from that night and see all the people trashing that pick and then come to this and other threads and see all the people(hypocrites) with the 'I told you so..' nonsense.

    I still don't give a crap what he does in Orlando because to me he will never be a very good player but he will have nights like he did last night where he puts up big numbers on a bad team and still lose.
    I still think that his max potential is as a servicable starter/backup center and would trade him for Bynum over and over again but that doesn't mean he isn't better than what we have (though that isn't too difficult at present).

    It's hard to judge defense with statistics and his limited ability physically will limit him defensively for the rest of his career. You're talking about a player who had all time bad athletic measurements, basically he is a tougher and more gritty Spencer Hawes.
    Last edited by Knowledge; 01-01-2013 at 08:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Hinkie
    "I'm probably pretty boring to watch a game with because I''m all about expected values. I don''t even care if it goes in or not, I'm all about, '全hould it go in?'' I can live with randomness. I mean, if it''s a close game in the end, yeah, I''m just like anyone else. But I just want us to play the odds all the time."
    TerminH1NK13


  3. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by BChydro86 View Post
    ^^ ill just say that i thought it was a great pick, and said back then that he was the 2nd best center in that draft behind valenciunas.
    I like the pick too but there were so many people trashing the pick that night that now all of sudden like him.

  4. #679
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    It was a safe, but uninspiring, draft pick. When your team is stuck in mediocrity you don't draft low ceiling players like Vuce Imo.

    You can't call it a totally worthless pick but it wasn't good selection. If you are the heat looking for 1 more roleplayer? Fine. If you are a team that constantly loses in the first round, I would think its time to get bold.

    Faried was and still is the right choice. Lucky (if bynum plays) it worked out.

    Edit: But then again, if you thought vuce was a high ceiling player (which I would disagree with), then I can see why you would like him.
    Last edited by Knowledge; 01-02-2013 at 12:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Hinkie
    "I'm probably pretty boring to watch a game with because I''m all about expected values. I don''t even care if it goes in or not, I'm all about, '全hould it go in?'' I can live with randomness. I mean, if it''s a close game in the end, yeah, I''m just like anyone else. But I just want us to play the odds all the time."
    TerminH1NK13


  5. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knowledge View Post
    It was a safe, but uninspiring, draft pick. When your team is stuck in mediocrity you don't draft low ceiling players like Vuce Imo.

    You can't call it a totally worthless pick but it wasn't good selection. If you are the heat looking for 1 more roleplayer? Fine. If you are a team that constantly loses in the first round, I would think its time to get bold.

    Faried was and still is the right choice. Lucky (if bynum plays) it worked out.
    Yes the love affair with this Faried guy. He's really turned Denver into contenders. Drafting Faried does nothing to make us anything other than where we are now. Please get off this guy's jock strap. Drafting Vuc was fine for where we drafted in that particular draft.

  6. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
    Yes the love affair with this Faried guy. He's really turned Denver into contenders. Drafting Faried does nothing to make us anything other than where we are now. Please get off this guy's jock strap. Drafting Vuc was fine for where we drafted in that particular draft.

    That isn't the point. Its not about being contenders immediately. Its about drafting enough high upside players so that you can either develop player(s) who can be great and/or give yourself a chance to have multiple trade chips.

    All I know is that Faried has been a very good player from the get go. He boards like a beat and can finish around the rim. He plays big and would have been a better option than Thad at his price tag.

    But hey, who cares about drafting the best players, right? Lets just hold hands and pray things work out!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Hinkie
    "I'm probably pretty boring to watch a game with because I''m all about expected values. I don''t even care if it goes in or not, I'm all about, '全hould it go in?'' I can live with randomness. I mean, if it''s a close game in the end, yeah, I''m just like anyone else. But I just want us to play the odds all the time."
    TerminH1NK13


  7. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knowledge View Post
    That isn't the point. Its not about being contenders immediately. Its about drafting enough high upside players so that you can either develop player(s) who can be great and/or give yourself a chance to have multiple trade chips.

    All I know is that Faried has been a very good player from the get go. He boards like a beat and can finish around the rim. He plays big and would have been a better option than Thad at his price tag.

    But hey, who cares about drafting the best players, right? Lets just hold hands and pray things work out!
    It is the point. Unless Faried turns into a perennial All Star or is an integral part of championship team what difference does it make at this point. Faried is what he is at this point. A guy on an ordinary, average basketball team. That's it. You act like he's KG in his prime or something like that. He's at 12 and 10 right now and Vuc is at 11 and 10. That's a HUGE difference. I mean Faried's a wayyy better player.
    Last edited by bootsy; 01-02-2013 at 12:36 AM.

  8. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
    It is the point. Unless Faried turns into a perennial All Star or is an integral part of championship team what difference does it make at this point. Faried is what he is at this point. A guy on an ordinary, average basketball team. That's it. You act like he's KG in his prime or something like that. He's at 12 and 10 right now and Vuc is at 11 and 10. That's a HUGE difference. I mean Faried's a wayyy better player.
    I never said that.

    All I said was that he was better than Vuce. He will never be Duncan or KG, but he is still one of the better young 4s in the league. We have a rebounding problem on this team, you replace Thad with Faried, and the problem isn't all that big. Faried is a better player than Thad and its only his second year. He gives you so much more on defense/rebounding the ball.

    If we would have drafted Faried last year, maybe we don't trade for Moultrie and are able to keep that future first. Maybe we could have gotten away with just trading Faried and draft picks and kept Harkless. Maybe we move Thad for picks and don't sign him for 40 million(though his play this year makes the contract less bad). Its all speculation, but I just believe we would have had even more flexibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Hinkie
    "I'm probably pretty boring to watch a game with because I''m all about expected values. I don''t even care if it goes in or not, I'm all about, '全hould it go in?'' I can live with randomness. I mean, if it''s a close game in the end, yeah, I''m just like anyone else. But I just want us to play the odds all the time."
    TerminH1NK13


  9. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knowledge View Post
    I never said that.

    All I said was that he was better than Vuce.
    He will never be Duncan or KG, but he is still one of the better young 4s in the league. We have a rebounding problem on this team, you replace Thad with Faried, and the problem isn't all that big. Faried is a better player than Thad and its only his second year. He gives you so much more on defense/rebounding the ball.

    If we would have drafted Faried last year, maybe we don't trade for Moultrie and are able to keep that future first. Maybe we could have gotten away with just trading Faried and draft picks and kept Harkless. Maybe we move Thad for picks and don't sign him for 40 million(though his play this year makes the contract less bad). Its all speculation, but I just believe we would have had even more flexibility.
    That's debatable at this point. I don't know the numbers across the board. I'll leave that for the stat geeks but the points and rebounds are even. If we draft Faried last year maybe he doesn't get off the bench like Vuc because our coach. I don't know. The thing is I don't care about Faried, don't think he makes a difference if he were here.

  10. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
    It is the point. Unless Faried turns into a perennial All Star or is an integral part of championship team what difference does it make at this point. Faried is what he is at this point. A guy on an ordinary, average basketball team. That's it. You act like he's KG in his prime or something like that. He's at 12 and 10 right now and Vuc is at 11 and 10. That's a HUGE difference. I mean Faried's a wayyy better player.
    Knowledge: "I think Faried would've been a better pick than Vuc."

    Bootsy: "What!? You're acting like he's KG in his prime!!!"


    Come on, man. Stop it. You can make a point without having to try and completely mischaracterize the position of the people who don't agree with you.

  11. #686
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    It would have been a tough call for me. But on draft day I would have taken 3 guys over Vuc, with Faried as one of them.

    Here was the problem with drafting Faried with our only 1st round pick: We had just extended Thad. Thad and Faried can't spend too many minutes together on the floor for obvious reasons. If we had moved Thad when we should have, drafting Faried would have been a much better choice.

    Really, we should have moved both Thad and Lou when we might have had the chance. We could have had both Faried and Vuc, maybe. But the direction of a franchise will not be altered based on deciding between Vuc and Faried in a draft. The people last year who acted like that were out of their rocker.
    Last edited by wannabGM; 01-02-2013 at 05:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by RickyPrior View Post
    When you go out of the way just to hate...no one takes you seriously.

  12. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BChydro86 View Post
    ^^ ill just say that i thought it was a great pick, and said back then that he was the 2nd best center in that draft behind valenciunas.
    I like the pick too but there were so many people trashing the pick that night that now all of sudden like him.
    In all fairness, u are allowed to recognize that a player is good even if u didnt like that player before.

    Its not like u can watch a guy put up good numbers like vuc and refuse to recognize that hes a good nba player .


    gotta pay the troll toll

  13. #688
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    disagree that Fared is any better than Thad...

    RETURN OF THE MAC

  14. #689
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    Around the NBA: 2012-13 Edition

    Faried is a more useful playoff player than thad.... And isnt that what it all comes down to?

    Although ill admit that i am curious to see how thad performs in the playoffs with his stronger body.


    gotta pay the troll toll

  15. #690
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    only difference i see with Faried is that he is a more aggressive rebounder but outside of that he isnt not any better than Thad is. I do agree with Bootsy that we are no better with Faried on this team, our reboudning might slightly improve but its not like he is a high impact player, at least not yet

    RETURN OF THE MAC

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