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Thread: Next Moves

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofphilly View Post
    ugh... Carle is a completely different player then any of them. To be fair the only one like him is Gus / Mez and Mez is staying a Flyer unless traded. Gus is young and does have great awareness as well as vision.

    Im not going to argue it.... I just think that theres pros / cons / $$$ and in my personal opinion the $$$ + cons do not equal what the pros can be for Carle. Id hand the reigns over to Gus. I dunno 900k for very similar production compared to 4.5 million... I know which button I push.

    Now go get me a sniper for G with all that cap we saved!
    As much as I like Gus and think he will develop into a special player, it's still a gamble trading a proven commodity that you can put in your top pairing at a reasonable price for a rookie. Mez should be the one to go if you move someone...especially if you can keep Carle for a comparable price.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giroux 4 MVP View Post
    So with our 11 million left you want to sign Voracek (3mill), Garrison (5mill) and parise (6-8 mill) hmmmm that doesn't seem to equal 11 million....Instead we should make a huge pitch to Shultz, if he doesnt sign give the reigns to gust or bourdon and then you will have the money for a parise or a semin or Doan
    Pronger = LITR = +5 Mil. Before one of you geniuses out there try to tell me we can't use that money now, yes we can. We can be 10% over the cap until the same point at which LITR money comes off the cap. Thank you

    Also, we should be trying to get Garrison because I believe his number will be more like a 3.5-4.5. One good year should not earn you that kind of money. Look for a 3 year 4.5 mil deal from us if we go that way. A couple articles lead me to believe that we are looking for another right handed D-man though. The cap is set around 70.2 mil so I think we could pull it off.

    Our cap availability is actually over 11.35 mil. If we signed Parise and Voracek that would leave us at 13 O-men going against the cap. That means either waiving Shelley (1.1 million) or sending down Rinaldo/Wellwood (550k +). Then you look at the D. The Flyers probably won't hesitate to either waive or trade Lilja to make room in the cap because we will have 9 NHL ready D-men. So there is another 735k. Voracek gets around 2-3 years at around 2.75-3.25 per. I think the offer on the table right now is 2.5 mil and he is just trying to see if anyone else is going to make the Flyers pay a little more.

    If you run the numbers you have 11.3 mil in cap + 5 for Pronger + 1.25-1.85 mil in waives/send downs and then probably an injury causing someone to go LITR during the season lol. So lets just go with 18 mil even (adding those numbers up).

    Parise @ 8 mil
    Garrison @ 4.5 mil
    Voracek @ 3 mil
    Biron @ 1-1.5 mil
    TOTAL 16.5-17 mil

    That would still leave us with just over 1 mil in cap space before any injuries or trips the LITR this season

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperX22 View Post
    He absolutely is. Gus is still too young and inexperienced to say for sure what he is. Carle is better than Mezaros in every way other than Mez big shot. Better than Grossman. There is more to being a complete defenseman than clearing the crease. Better than Schenn for much of the same reason as Grossman...Carle just does many more things well.

    That leaves Timonen, Coburn, and Carle and I could make a case for any of those 3 as being our current #1 dman.
    There is no arguing with the Carle haters. Personally I'm hoping Homer already has a deal in place before the Wideman deal and he is just waiting until Sunday to announce it. I dont get how you can watch the team every game and think that Gus can take over and be equal or better than Carle. Carle was one of the more steady defenders last year and adds to the offense, yet every negative is 10x more glaring than anybody else on the team. Just dont get it.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillysports101 View Post
    There is no arguing with the Carle haters. Personally I'm hoping Homer already has a deal in place before the Wideman deal and he is just waiting until Sunday to announce it. I dont get how you can watch the team every game and think that Gus can take over and be equal or better than Carle. Carle was one of the more steady defenders last year and adds to the offense, yet every negative is 10x more glaring than anybody else on the team. Just dont get it.
    Yeah...I don't think there's anyone out there who's much better than him that we could get. He does fly under the radar more because his game isn't real dynamic...but he's pretty steady.

    That said, I do have a little concern just because I think he was making a few too many blunders last year............but at the same time I'm willing to believe keeping him paired with someone steady will be more beneficial to him. In watching him the last couple years it just seems like if you keep him paired with someone steady he plays better.....it seemed like making Carle the guy to go with MAB last season was a mistake...

    I'd prefer Carle over Mez all things being equal....provided his money is somewhat reasonable..

  5. #95
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    I just cant get past 4.5 million for "somewhat reasonable" and someone that gave up more goals then he scored... and thats by turning the puck over in his own zone not by simply allowing his man by him to get a free shot on net.

    Thats the side of his game that just KILLS me... I just dont see how that is worth 4.5. I thought at 3.8 he was overpaid, and so many ppl said the same. Somehow we all caved in to this .......Ahhh Carle @ 4.5 isnt bad. Well I suckered in for a bit too but came to my senses...

    Listen i got no problem with a player that F's up from time to time. But it seems its generally once a game that I am like...."F***ing Carle...." Good with the bad I guess. But to say you would take him over Mez kills me inside. lol

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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLMunchie619 View Post
    Pronger = LITR = +5 Mil. Before one of you geniuses out there try to tell me we can't use that money now, yes we can. We can be 10% over the cap until the same point at which LITR money comes off the cap. Thank you

    Also, we should be trying to get Garrison because I believe his number will be more like a 3.5-4.5. One good year should not earn you that kind of money. Look for a 3 year 4.5 mil deal from us if we go that way. A couple articles lead me to believe that we are looking for another right handed D-man though. The cap is set around 70.2 mil so I think we could pull it off.

    Our cap availability is actually over 11.35 mil. If we signed Parise and Voracek that would leave us at 13 O-men going against the cap. That means either waiving Shelley (1.1 million) or sending down Rinaldo/Wellwood (550k +). Then you look at the D. The Flyers probably won't hesitate to either waive or trade Lilja to make room in the cap because we will have 9 NHL ready D-men. So there is another 735k. Voracek gets around 2-3 years at around 2.75-3.25 per. I think the offer on the table right now is 2.5 mil and he is just trying to see if anyone else is going to make the Flyers pay a little more.

    If you run the numbers you have 11.3 mil in cap + 5 for Pronger + 1.25-1.85 mil in waives/send downs and then probably an injury causing someone to go LITR during the season lol. So lets just go with 18 mil even (adding those numbers up).

    Parise @ 8 mil
    Garrison @ 4.5 mil
    Voracek @ 3 mil
    Biron @ 1-1.5 mil
    TOTAL 16.5-17 mil

    That would still leave us with just over 1 mil in cap space before any injuries or trips the LITR this season

    i know that's just a projection on your part, but if the Flyers are going to give Parise $8 mil, they need to walk....no, RUN away. Parise is a good player; he's not an elite player. that $8 mil is something you save for Stamkos, Giroux, Malkin, Ovechkin, Crosby, those type of players. you can't give Parise that kind of money.


    in that case, they are better off just signing a 3rd line winger and Voracek and going with what they got, maybe making a trade at the deadline if necessary. $8 mil is way too much for Parise.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofphilly View Post
    I just cant get past 4.5 million for "somewhat reasonable" and someone that gave up more goals then he scored... and thats by turning the puck over in his own zone not by simply allowing his man by him to get a free shot on net.

    Thats the side of his game that just KILLS me... I just dont see how that is worth 4.5. I thought at 3.8 he was overpaid, and so many ppl said the same. Somehow we all caved in to this .......Ahhh Carle @ 4.5 isnt bad. Well I suckered in for a bit too but came to my senses...

    Listen i got no problem with a player that F's up from time to time. But it seems its generally once a game that I am like...."F***ing Carle...." Good with the bad I guess. But to say you would take him over Mez kills me inside. lol
    I hear what you're saying on the money....but you have to come to grips with the fact that those numbers are the new market place......look at all pro sports...these days just being pretty good still makes you 4-5 million. It just is what it is.....why did JVR get a 4.25 million dollar long term contract when he's never done enough to earn a 2 million dollar contract? 4.5 million these days gets you Matt Carle. Sure you can go out and sign someone else for the sake of changing the name..but in the end you're looking at the same guy. My guess is if we watched all the other guys in that category as much as we watch Carle you'd probably see your share of mistakes as well......

    It's not as though Mez is some defensive wizard out there....he has his share of lapses that prove to be costly as well.....Mez has the big shot and gets the occassional big hit so i think he comes off as a little more dynamic....but in the end for me I think they are both pretty similar on the talent scale......I don't dislike either guy nor do I love either guy.......

    my position is based primarily on what it seems the organization has said they are going to do, and that is sign Matt Carle. I'm very OK with it if they choose to let him walk and use that money somewhere else. But if they plan to bring him back I'd rather have Carle than Mez.......just my opinion based on what I see when i'm watching the games.

  8. #98
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    sadly i understand exactly what you mean about the money market. And even now since you have to be in a certain percentage of that number. Bloated contracts are at an all time high. Its meant to even things out but all it does is separate the good GMs from the Bad GMs. LOL.

    I can respect your comment about Mez vs Carle, but I believe Mez has a much bigger defensive edge than Carle, esp being physical and playing the player.

    I mean if bringing Carle back means we trade Mez + Read to net Bobby Ryan than I'm 100% ok with that, I can live. But if were bringing Carle back just to be here...ugh....that doesnt sit as well.

    But yah, good for us were not the ones that need to make that decision HA! And we will all know soon enough!!!

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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofphilly View Post
    sadly i understand exactly what you mean about the money market. And even now since you have to be in a certain percentage of that number. Bloated contracts are at an all time high. Its meant to even things out but all it does is separate the good GMs from the Bad GMs. LOL.

    I can respect your comment about Mez vs Carle, but I believe Mez has a much bigger defensive edge than Carle, esp being physical and playing the player.

    I mean if bringing Carle back means we trade Mez + Read to net Bobby Ryan than I'm 100% ok with that, I can live. But if were bringing Carle back just to be here...ugh....that doesnt sit as well.

    But yah, good for us were not the ones that need to make that decision HA! And we will all know soon enough!!!

    we just have to hope that if Mez is in orange and black at the start of the season that he plays physical.


    when he had the injury, and when he came back, he wasn't as physical. i can remember countless times seeing replays of deflection goals by opposing teams with Mez standing right next to the screener, shoulder to shoulder, and thinking, "why the **** is this guy still in the way? MOVE HIM!".

    Mez really lost his physical side last season, and i'm hoping having this back surgery doesn't make him shy now.


    guess we'll just have to wait and see...

  10. #100
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    Parise is going to get close to $8 Million...maybe more. Penguins might just throw $9 Million at him.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Donnie View Post
    Parise is going to get close to $8 Million...maybe more. Penguins might just throw $9 Million at him.
    hey if they wanna over spend, let them. they'll end up losing Malkin because of it at some point.

    no way you can have 3 $9+ mil players on your roster and get away with it.

    $8 mil is too much for Parise.


    let me put it this way: if $7.8 mil is too much for Rick Nash, $8 mil is too much for Zach Parise.

  12. #102
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    Well, everyone pretty much says the Flyers are out on Schultz. Womp womp.
    Prepare to experience sexual magic.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    hey if they wanna over spend, let them. they'll end up losing Malkin because of it at some point.

    no way you can have 3 $9+ mil players on your roster and get away with it.

    $8 mil is too much for Parise.


    let me put it this way: if $7.8 mil is too much for Rick Nash, $8 mil is too much for Zach Parise.
    I'd much rather have Parise at $8 Mil then Nash at $ 7.8 though. I think Parise is a much better player.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLMunchie619 View Post
    Pronger = LITR = +5 Mil. Before one of you geniuses out there try to tell me we can't use that money now, yes we can. We can be 10% over the cap until the same point at which LITR money comes off the cap. Thank you

    Also, we should be trying to get Garrison because I believe his number will be more like a 3.5-4.5. One good year should not earn you that kind of money. Look for a 3 year 4.5 mil deal from us if we go that way. A couple articles lead me to believe that we are looking for another right handed D-man though. The cap is set around 70.2 mil so I think we could pull it off.

    Our cap availability is actually over 11.35 mil. If we signed Parise and Voracek that would leave us at 13 O-men going against the cap. That means either waiving Shelley (1.1 million) or sending down Rinaldo/Wellwood (550k +). Then you look at the D. The Flyers probably won't hesitate to either waive or trade Lilja to make room in the cap because we will have 9 NHL ready D-men. So there is another 735k. Voracek gets around 2-3 years at around 2.75-3.25 per. I think the offer on the table right now is 2.5 mil and he is just trying to see if anyone else is going to make the Flyers pay a little more.

    If you run the numbers you have 11.3 mil in cap + 5 for Pronger + 1.25-1.85 mil in waives/send downs and then probably an injury causing someone to go LITR during the season lol. So lets just go with 18 mil even (adding those numbers up).

    Parise @ 8 mil
    Garrison @ 4.5 mil
    Voracek @ 3 mil
    Biron @ 1-1.5 mil
    TOTAL 16.5-17 mil

    That would still leave us with just over 1 mil in cap space before any injuries or trips the LITR this season


    let me be the 'genius' to tell you why this is an extremely tough plan to pull off and hurts all of our trade possibilities ... if LTIR stays the same in the CBA ... if that changes then this post is null and void.

    lets say the season starts on October 1st ... you need to have your full roster - PRONGER INCLUDED WITH HIS CAP HIT ... at or under 70.3 million (new cap ... i think is like 70.3 or 70.2 ... whatever). LTIR is an inseason thing, so once the season starts - you will be able to go above the cap by 4.9 million, but until is starts ... you can't and your cap is the same as everyone elses cap

    sure, you can go to 77 million and sign everyone this summer ... with your 11.5 + 7 to equal 18 million but then before October 1st ... you need to get that down 7 million back to 70.3 ... WHICH, AGAIN, INCLUDES PRONGER and MATT WALKER and JODI SHELLEY (unless the waive him before that)

    so ... from one genius to another ... we really don't have much cap space

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    we just have to hope that if Mez is in orange and black at the start of the season that he plays physical.


    when he had the injury, and when he came back, he wasn't as physical. i can remember countless times seeing replays of deflection goals by opposing teams with Mez standing right next to the screener, shoulder to shoulder, and thinking, "why the **** is this guy still in the way? MOVE HIM!".

    Mez really lost his physical side last season, and i'm hoping having this back surgery doesn't make him shy now.


    guess we'll just have to wait and see...
    Yeah i guess on the plus side he did kind of rush back. Originally he wasnt supposed to play until the Cup series if we made it there.

    So I'll give him an excuse for that 1 game he played. And apparently Homer said he played for almost a week with that herniated disc.


    I dont like the Schultz news - I didnt see that we were out of the running, only thing I read was he had it down to 3 Canadian team and possibly 3 American teams.

    This is what I have on Schultz news

    The signing process may take a couple days, possibly by the weekend. They will take calls based on a list of teams they had narrowed it down to. Since hes signing an entry level deal, it will be more based on fit than money. LeBrun believes the front runners are the Canucks, Oilers, Rangers, Flyers, and Maple Leafs.


    Looks as up to 4 hrs ago we were very much alive

    And check this out with Crosgay - Deal expected to be for 12 years and $104.4 million. Salary cap hit of $8.7 million. ---- So glad we get to punish this BISCH for 12 more years!!!!!

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