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Thread: Rick Nash

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaiza90 View Post
    I don't think that's being a homer at all. You clearly are not confident enough in Seguin to elevate his game to another level. But I am. Does that make me a homer, because I don't want to say that he'll struggle? I don't think so.

    I can state the Stamkos had a huge year after his rookie year, and he pretty much repeated the year after, and the year after that. Is that a bad example? Stamkos wasn't "established." There are countless "unestablished" players I can point to that understood the game the more they played and made great strides to become better.

    You saying Seguin is a wild card is just being pessimistic, not "objective." Everything I've seen from Seguin points that he will have another good year. Now I ask you again, does that make me a homer?
    No that makes it your opinion, but you have given me reasons why you think it. Stamkos is a rare occasion and made a HUGE jump from his rookie to sophomore year. Seguin did not make nearly the same jump (not that I'm saying you're comparing the two).

    How is me calling Seguin a wild card being pessimistic but I'm wrong saying people are homers who think Seguin can't struggle? We can call Tuukka a wild card but we can't call Seguin a wild card? I'm not saying that Seguin will struggle (I've stated numerous time I hope he take the next step) but NO ONE can honestly in this forum say what we can expect from Seguin this season.

    Barring any major injuries you know you'll get the following from these guys

    Stamkos will score 30+ goals
    Malkin will put up 75+ points
    Ovechkin will score 30+ goals
    Bergeron will put up 50+ points
    Chara will put up 40+ points
    Iginla will score 30+ goals

    You can't say that right now about Seguin. While everything points to Seguin elevating his game to the next level, it doesn't mean he will. The guys listed above are established, you know what your getting. Someday Seguin will get to that level maybe another 1-2 years but right now you don't know what Seguin will bring to the B's next season.

    To say I'm not confident in Seguin is ludacris and purely based on the fact that I disagree with a few that he "can't go into a slump."


    Which is more Epic?
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    B) Quincey's Reaction

  2. #212
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    So you disagree with those who feel confident with Seguin, but your confident in Seguin?

    You believe is Rasks ability to be a number 1, but your scared he won't live up to it?

    Isn't that how you separate the bad from the good? The greatest will rise under pressure the Joe Thorntons will collapse, the only time we will ever find this out will be when the games are played

    I believe; will we win 82 games no, but I do believe we will make the playoffs and if healthy we will make one hell of a run. We did it three years ago and if Krejci didn't get injured we would have made it to the ecf last year we won this year Horton got injured and we missed those clutch goals

    if I'm considered a homer, I'll consider you chicken little

    We are too young of a team to panic, you can't go into a season expecting the worst, because it will never work...Lets say you trade for Nash (to get back onto topic) and in practice he steps on a puck slips and somebody steps on his face and cuts his eye...what then?

    I just follow a pattern and in the last few years we seem to be doing good, so I will bow my head and hope it continues

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bleedB&G View Post
    So you disagree with those who feel confident with Seguin, but your confident in Seguin?
    No, I don't disagree with people being confident in Seguin. I disagree with the thought that it's impossible for Seguin to slump or take a step back.

    You believe is Rasks ability to be a number 1, but your scared he won't live up to it?
    Not at all, where did I say that in any of my post? I think a lot of people see the Tuukka that carried us a few years ago and those are their exceptions. The minute he struggles there will be people in this forum (not saying you or Shaiza) that will want him run out of town. Tuukka is hands down my favorite player in the NHL. There is nothing more that I would love for him to succeed

    Isn't that how you separate the bad from the good? The greatest will rise under pressure the Joe Thorntons will collapse, the only time we will ever find this out will be when the games are played
    Absolutely 100% dead on.

    I believe; will we win 82 games no, but I do believe we will make the playoffs and if healthy we will make one hell of a run. We did it three years ago and if Krejci didn't get injured we would have made it to the ecf last year we won this year Horton got injured and we missed those clutch goals
    I believe we have a team capable of making the playoffs as well and making a significant impact. Not sure I agree with you on Krejci but we'll never know.

    if I'm considered a homer, I'll consider you chicken little
    Here's the problem with me using the word "homer". I'm simply playing devils advocate on this. Everyone loves Seguin and hopes he makes that jump to the next level. I know some "think" he will but it's more hope then anything.

    We are too young of a team to panic, you can't go into a season expecting the worst, because it will never work...Lets say you trade for Nash (to get back onto topic) and in practice he steps on a puck slips and somebody steps on his face and cuts his eye...what then?
    I'm not panicking about anything. I'm simply pointing out the "wild cards" or "x-factors" on this team this season. Rask and Seguin are going to be relied on heavily this season and as I've said, you can't truly say what were going to get from them. We can hope that Seguin puts up 30+ goals and becomes an 80pt player or that Rask can be a low 2 GAA and .920+ sv% goalie but we don't know.

    I just follow a pattern and in the last few years we seem to be doing good, so I will bow my head and hope it continues
    Your right we have done well, I don't disagree with that. As much as the guy drives me nuts, Thomas was a big part of that success. I understand it's a team game but without Thomas in net do we still win the cup? This year Rask is asked to be that work horse. The previous two years he hasn't appeared in more then 30 games, now your going to be asking him to start 55+ games. The one thing the best teams in the NHL have in common are top tier goalies. While I think Rask can be that guy, I expect he'll struggle a bit as his first season as the #1 with no Thomas around.


    Which is more Epic?
    A) Chara vs. Smith
    or
    B) Quincey's Reaction

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneManIsNoMan View Post
    No that makes it your opinion, but you have given me reasons why you think it. Stamkos is a rare occasion and made a HUGE jump from his rookie to sophomore year. Seguin did not make nearly the same jump (not that I'm saying you're comparing the two).
    Seguin made a 55 point jump from his rookie year. Stamkos made a 49 point jump. Seguin is a pretty rare occasion too.

    How is me calling Seguin a wild card being pessimistic but I'm wrong saying people are homers who think Seguin can't struggle? We can call Tuukka a wild card but we can't call Seguin a wild card? I'm not saying that Seguin will struggle (I've stated numerous time I hope he take the next step) but NO ONE can honestly in this forum say what we can expect from Seguin this season.
    You can't put words in people's mouth like this. No one said Seguin "can't" struggle. There is a difference between people saying he "can't" struggle vs. they don't think he will.

    No one is saying you're wrong. You're pessimistic, we're optimistic. It's wrong for you to call people homers because we don't agree with what you are saying.

    Barring any major injuries you know you'll get the following from these guys

    Stamkos will score 30+ goals
    Malkin will put up 75+ points
    Ovechkin will score 30+ goals
    Bergeron will put up 50+ points
    Chara will put up 40+ points
    Iginla will score 30+ goals

    You can't say that right now about Seguin. While everything points to Seguin elevating his game to the next level, it doesn't mean he will. The guys listed above are established, you know what your getting. Someday Seguin will get to that level maybe another 1-2 years but right now you don't know what Seguin will bring to the B's next season.
    You named 6 elite players who have been good for a long time. It's not unreasonable to think that Seguin will improve at all.

    We could have said the same about Marchand. We could have said the same about Lucic. The list goes on and on.

    Point is, I'm really not sure what you are getting at with this. No one can predict the future so should we sit here and expect all players to slump? I'm not going to do that. I'm going to continue making educated predictions.

    To say I'm not confident in Seguin is ludacris and purely based on the fact that I disagree with a few that he "can't go into a slump."
    Again, see what I wrote above. You are putting words into people's mouth again.
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  5. #215
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    Isn't this a Rick Nash thread?

  6. #216
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    Okay, I'll bite.

    Sure, Seguin could take a step back in his production, anyone can. At the same time anyone could get injured at any point of the season. Really, we don't know what's going to happen and everything is a "what if" situation.

    It's difficult to judge Seguin after just two NHL seasons, but he does seem to thrive under the added responsibilities and pressure, with maybe a bit of an adjustment period.

    With the Stamkos and Seguin comparison.

    Stamkos:
    46pt 14:56 toi/g
    96pt 20:33 toi/g

    Seguin:

    22pt 12:13 toi/g
    67pt 16:56 toi/g

    So, I think Seguin made a considerable jump in production considering ice-time and added expectations. Yeah, maybe not a great analysis...it was better in my head, but I'm tired. Buy, anyway, I'm confident that Seguin will at least be around the same point total as last season, if not surpassing it.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneManIsNoMan View Post
    No, I don't disagree with people being confident in Seguin. I disagree with the thought that it's impossible for Seguin to slump or take a step back.



    Not at all, where did I say that in any of my post? I think a lot of people see the Tuukka that carried us a few years ago and those are their exceptions. The minute he struggles there will be people in this forum (not saying you or Shaiza) that will want him run out of town. Tuukka is hands down my favorite player in the NHL. There is nothing more that I would love for him to succeed



    Absolutely 100% dead on.



    I believe we have a team capable of making the playoffs as well and making a significant impact. Not sure I agree with you on Krejci but we'll never know.



    Here's the problem with me using the word "homer". I'm simply playing devils advocate on this. Everyone loves Seguin and hopes he makes that jump to the next level. I know some "think" he will but it's more hope then anything.



    I'm not panicking about anything. I'm simply pointing out the "wild cards" or "x-factors" on this team this season. Rask and Seguin are going to be relied on heavily this season and as I've said, you can't truly say what were going to get from them. We can hope that Seguin puts up 30+ goals and becomes an 80pt player or that Rask can be a low 2 GAA and .920+ sv% goalie but we don't know.



    Your right we have done well, I don't disagree with that. As much as the guy drives me nuts, Thomas was a big part of that success. I understand it's a team game but without Thomas in net do we still win the cup? This year Rask is asked to be that work horse. The previous two years he hasn't appeared in more then 30 games, now your going to be asking him to start 55+ games. The one thing the best teams in the NHL have in common are top tier goalies. While I think Rask can be that guy, I expect he'll struggle a bit as his first season as the #1 with no Thomas around.
    cool I can live with you being the devil

    So just to get back onto topic you guys think anybody will be crazy enough to pay that ransom CBJ wants?

    "The Columbus Dispatch reported on Tuesday that there are six teams he would be willing to be traded to - the Boston Bruins, Detroit Red Wings, New York Rangers, Philadelphia Flyers, Pittsburgh Penguins and San Jose Sharks."

    And all six teams want to win a cup now but don't want to give up the barn for him.....didn't SJ have the best offer? I look at the Heatly trade from Ott to SJ, they got back three quality players and just built around who is left. But CBJ also has a moron as a GM so....
    Last edited by 2bleedB&G; 07-11-2012 at 07:53 AM.

  8. #218
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    Current reports say it'll be a combination of Seguin-Lucic-Hamilton. As mentioned by Joe Haggerty of CSNNE.com. Here me out on this proposal and tell me what you think...

    TO BOSTON:
    Rick Nash

    TO COLUMBUS:
    Milan Lucic
    David Krecji
    Jared Knight or Ryan Spooner or Jordan Caron
    Draft Pick in 2013 Conditonal 1st Round if Bruins make Stanley Cup Finals, 2nd Round if they don't


    Do you think it's too much for Rick Nash?

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWick564 View Post
    Current reports say it'll be a combination of Seguin-Lucic-Hamilton. As mentioned by Joe Haggerty of CSNNE.com. Here me out on this proposal and tell me what you think...

    TO BOSTON:
    Rick Nash

    TO COLUMBUS:
    Milan Lucic
    David Krecji
    Jared Knight or Ryan Spooner or Jordan Caron
    Draft Pick in 2013 Conditonal 1st Round if Bruins make Stanley Cup Finals, 2nd Round if they don't


    Do you think it's too much for Rick Nash?
    WAY too much.. Lucic and Krejci?! **** no.


    lol, small kid got tripped by a tuba player

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaiza90 View Post
    Seguin made a 55 point jump from his rookie year. Stamkos made a 49 point jump. Seguin is a pretty rare occasion too.
    Stamkos jumped from 23G to 51G & 23A to 44A

    Seguin jumped from 11G to 29G & 11A to 38A

    While the overall points are similar Stamkos jump was more significant as he became at 90+ point player in his second season.

    You can't put words in people's mouth like this. No one said Seguin "can't" struggle. There is a difference between people saying he "can't" struggle vs. they don't think he will.
    I'm not putting words into anyone mouth, this is what you said about Seguin with slumping or "struggling"

    Quote Originally Posted by shaiza90 View Post
    I understand, but Seguin is not an ordinary young player. He's shown the skill set to not fall into a slump, that's my belief.
    What's the different between that and "can't slump?

    No one is saying you're wrong. You're pessimistic, we're optimistic. It's wrong for you to call people homers because we don't agree with what you are saying.
    I'm not pessimistic at all. I haven't even said that Seguin will struggle or Rask wont be good. All I'm saying is they are wild cards (which you agree Rask is a wild card). Seguin has only had two seasons in the NHL and while he made a jump last season, you don't know what he'll bring this season. You know what you're going to get out of guys like Bergeron, Chara, Seidenberg, Ference, Horton (if he stays healthy), Thornton & Campbell.

    You named 6 elite players who have been good for a long time. It's not unreasonable to think that Seguin will improve at all.
    Didn't say he couldn't improve, I hope he improves and hits 80+ points this season.

    We could have said the same about Marchand. We could have said the same about Lucic. The list goes on and on.
    You could to extent but they've been pretty consistent the last two seasons

    Point is, I'm really not sure what you are getting at with this. No one can predict the future so should we sit here and expect all players to slump? I'm not going to do that. I'm going to continue making educated predictions.
    I'm going to make educated prediction too. In fact some of my predictions were pretty damn good last year in the prediction thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OneManIsNoMan View Post
    Forwards
    *Milan Lucic - 28G / 34A / 62Pts / +27
    David Krejci - 18G / 50A / 68Pts / +28
    Patrice Bergeron - 24G / 39A / 63Pts / +18
    *Tyler Seguin - 28G / 39A / 67Pts / +16
    Rich Peverley - 17G / 32A / 49Pts / -3
    Shawn Thornton - 4G / 5A / 9Pts / -2
    Daniel Paille - 8G / 11A / 19Pts / -4

    Defenseman
    *Zdeno Chara - 14G / 37A / 51Pts / +31
    Adam McQuaid - 4G / 8A / 12Pts / +17

    Goalies
    *Tim Thomas - 2.34 GAA / .917 SV% / 4 SO
    Tuukka Rask - 2.27 GAA / .924 SV% / 3 SO
    I think you guys just are not understanding what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying Seguin will struggle, I'm not saying Rask will suck, I'm not saying you guys are homers (still wish I didn't use that word).


    Which is more Epic?
    A) Chara vs. Smith
    or
    B) Quincey's Reaction

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWick564 View Post
    Current reports say it'll be a combination of Seguin-Lucic-Hamilton. As mentioned by Joe Haggerty of CSNNE.com. Here me out on this proposal and tell me what you think...

    TO BOSTON:
    Rick Nash

    TO COLUMBUS:
    Milan Lucic
    David Krecji
    Jared Knight or Ryan Spooner or Jordan Caron
    Draft Pick in 2013 Conditonal 1st Round if Bruins make Stanley Cup Finals, 2nd Round if they don't


    Do you think it's too much for Rick Nash?
    Way to much for Nash. Take out 1 of Lucic or Krejci and I'd do it.


    Which is more Epic?
    A) Chara vs. Smith
    or
    B) Quincey's Reaction

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneManIsNoMan View Post
    Stamkos jumped from 23G to 51G & 23A to 44A

    Seguin jumped from 11G to 29G & 11A to 38A

    While the overall points are similar Stamkos jump was more significant as he became at 90+ point player in his second season.
    Sure, but a 50+ point jump is not that insignificant. It's quite an extraordinary feat. You're not giving Seguin enough credit.

    I'm not putting words into anyone mouth, this is what you said about Seguin with slumping or "struggling"

    What's the different between that and "can't slump?
    He has the skill set not to slump, that's my belief. Now you tell me or ask anyone else on here how that translates into "can't slump." Go ahead.

    I'm not pessimistic at all. I haven't even said that Seguin will struggle or Rask wont be good. All I'm saying is they are wild cards (which you agree Rask is a wild card). Seguin has only had two seasons in the NHL and while he made a jump last season, you don't know what he'll bring this season. You know what you're going to get out of guys like Bergeron, Chara, Seidenberg, Ference, Horton (if he stays healthy), Thornton & Campbell.

    Didn't say he couldn't improve, I hope he improves and hits 80+ points this season.
    First off, I never said Rask was a wild card. I said he was a small question mark. Anton Khudobin is a wild card. The word wild card pretty much means you have no idea how they will perform this season. Question mark means can he perform up to this level again? We've seen enough of Seguin to make the judgment call that he's not a wild card. Khudobin, on the other hand, will get his first shot as a permanent NHL backup. He's a wild card.

    We can surely ask questions. Can Seguin hit the 70 point plateau? Will he struggle this season? It's fine to ask questions. But it's also fine to have your own opinions and answers.

    You could to extent but they've been pretty consistent the last two seasons
    I'm talking about Marchand pre-2011. Can he repeat his 21 goal season? Will he get better? We've seen enough of him to make a good call on it.

    Lucic after his first 30 goal season. Can he repeat the campaign? Same deal.

    You're doing the exact same with Seguin right now.

    I'm going to make educated prediction too. In fact some of my predictions were pretty damn good last year in the prediction thread
    Congrats?

    I think you guys just are not understanding what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying Seguin will struggle, I'm not saying Rask will suck, I'm not saying you guys are homers (still wish I didn't use that word).
    Well first off, I also wish you didn't use that word.

    What you are saying is pretty simple. There is a chance Seguin could struggle because no one can predict the future, like you implied. We disagree. We think we've seen enough of Seguin to say that he won't struggle.
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  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneManIsNoMan View Post
    Way to much for Nash. Take out 1 of Lucic or Krejci and I'd do it.
    Understandable, was just throwing some thoughts out lol. Although, I wouldn't mind shedding some of that salary especially David Krecji. If we could include him in some form of package for either Nash or even Ryan that would be ideal in my opinion. Lucic is a RFA next year as well, always something to consider (how much of an increase will he request, how much will we give, trade him if no contract is attainable). Also if we could trade Thomas, which could happen closer to the start of the season to a team who's under the floor that'd be great too!

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWick564 View Post
    Current reports say it'll be a combination of Seguin-Lucic-Hamilton. As mentioned by Joe Haggerty of CSNNE.com. Here me out on this proposal and tell me what you think...

    TO BOSTON:
    Rick Nash

    TO COLUMBUS:
    Milan Lucic
    David Krecji
    Jared Knight or Ryan Spooner or Jordan Caron
    Draft Pick in 2013 Conditonal 1st Round if Bruins make Stanley Cup Finals, 2nd Round if they don't


    Do you think it's too much for Rick Nash?
    We lose our first line, so that won't make us better.

    With Horton being a question mark we still have other holes to fill and we are giving those up for a guy that we hope will score 60 in a defensive system

    Think about it Lucic scores 30 Krejci 20 not even counting assits.

    Lucic could take a discount to stay long term

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaiza90 View Post
    Sure, but a 50+ point jump is not that insignificant. It's quite an extraordinary feat. You're not giving Seguin enough credit.



    He has the skill set not to slump, that's my belief. Now you tell me or ask anyone else on here how that translates into "can't slump." Go ahead.



    First off, I never said Rask was a wild card. I said he was a small question mark. Anton Khudobin is a wild card. The word wild card pretty much means you have no idea how they will perform this season. Question mark means can he perform up to this level again? We've seen enough of Seguin to make the judgment call that he's not a wild card. Khudobin, on the other hand, will get his first shot as a permanent NHL backup. He's a wild card.

    We can surely ask questions. Can Seguin hit the 70 point plateau? Will he struggle this season? It's fine to ask questions. But it's also fine to have your own opinions and answers.



    I'm talking about Marchand pre-2011. Can he repeat his 21 goal season? Will he get better? We've seen enough of him to make a good call on it.

    Lucic after his first 30 goal season. Can he repeat the campaign? Same deal.

    You're doing the exact same with Seguin right now.



    Congrats?



    Well first off, I also wish you didn't use that word.

    What you are saying is pretty simple. There is a chance Seguin could struggle because no one can predict the future, like you implied. We disagree. We think we've seen enough of Seguin to say that he won't struggle.
    Were honestly just going around in circles here. There is no point in continuing this debate.


    Which is more Epic?
    A) Chara vs. Smith
    or
    B) Quincey's Reaction

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