Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 140
  1. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    HCA (Homecourt Advantage)
    Posts
    65,625
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    1. If Wade had never won before, the results in the finals would be the same.

    2. Lebron would have beat a healthy Bulls team and a healthy Magic team.

    3. So what if he never took a team that never won before? That's certainly not all his fault. And that argument is completely flawed. Are you trying to tell me if a team won 20 years ago, winning a title with that ring wasn't as difficult as winning with a team that never won before?

    Makes all 3 points irrelevant.
    1. But he did win before and did so as the man. Proven winner

    2. Nope. Magic owned the Heat and the Bulls would have beaten them as well. Miami could barely beat Indiana or Boston.

    3. Not flawed argument. It is a rightful argument. I'm speaking in terms of recent success. It's not the Knicks of the 1970's or Sixers of 1983. It is the Heat of 2006 where the primary guy is still around.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    HCA (Homecourt Advantage)
    Posts
    65,625
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post


    Are you ****ing serious?

    Because Ben Wallace and Shaq in their late 30's makes it so much easier to win a title when they are barely as relevant compared to when they were in their championship seasons.
    Ben Wallace was only 33 years old and Shaq was allstar game mvp the season before.

    Lebron has always played with Proven winners. He had Ben Wallace in 2009 who won a title as the man. He had Shaq in 2010 who won 3 titles as the man, had 3 finals mvp's and 1 league mvp and then Wade in 2011 who won a title as the man. Lebron never won anything as the man. He never brought a franchise a title and he will never bring a team that hasn't won anything a title as he left.

    Check out this script Lebron himself said.

    http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o...RingChaser.jpg


    Also check out this unbiased analysis by a great writer and sports columnist

    http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_james_100709.html

    Going to Miami, it isn’t going to be LeBron’s team. It is Wade’s team because he’s been there and has won a championship there. So the obvious point was that this would not be LeBron’s championship if he gets one or more, that he needed to go get help from a champion and another star.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    36,579
    vCash
    1090
    Quote Originally Posted by JordansBulls View Post
    1. But he did win before and did so as the man. Proven winner

    2. Nope. Magic owned the Heat and the Bulls would have beaten them as well. Miami could barely beat Indiana or Boston.

    3. Not flawed argument. It is a rightful argument. I'm speaking in terms of recent success. It's not the Knicks of the 1970's or Sixers of 1983. It is the Heat of 2006 where the primary guy is still around.
    1. This is a hypothetical situation. Lebron has never been given the opportunity to win with a franchise that never won before while at the same time, having the supporting cast as good as Jordan's.

    2. Wrong again. Heat would have beat the Bulls regardless, and the Bulls would've still needed to get past the Celtics. The Magic faced the Pacers in the first round, and even with a healthy Dwight, they would have needed to beat the Pacers, something that wasn't going to happen anyways. So even if Howard was injured or healthy, the Heat would've faced the Pacers regardless.

    Also, I love how you COMPLETELY ignore Bosh was gone for most of those series and Wade was sub par. Bosh injured and Wade sucking is the reason they barely got past. It was like playing in Cleveland all over again.

    3. I understand that if it's recent, but you seem to rely on that argument too much when it can't apply all situations. You also rely on a similar argument how he couldn't win with players like Ben Wallace and Shaq and thinking Lebron would win despite them not being a difference maker in their late 30's than in their championship year.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    36,579
    vCash
    1090
    Quote Originally Posted by JordansBulls View Post
    Ben Wallace was only 33 years old and Shaq was allstar game mvp the season before.

    Lebron has always played with Proven winners. He had Ben Wallace in 2009 who won a title as the man. He had Shaq in 2010 who won 3 titles as the man, had 3 finals mvp's and 1 league mvp and then Wade in 2011 who won a title as the man. Lebron never won anything as the man. He never brought a franchise a title and he will never bring a team that hasn't won anything a title as he left.
    So you're telling me that a Ben Wallace (who was posting numbers half his prime numbers) and a Shaq that we both know wasn't even half the player he was when he was winning rings, is suppose to carry Lebron to a title? What a pathetic argument. I don't even know why you rely on such garbage things like that.

    Check out this script Lebron himself said.

    http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o...RingChaser.jpg
    What does this have to do with anything? He made a promise he didn't keep. Doesn't affect his game or his performances.


    Also check out this unbiased analysis by a great writer and sports columnist

    http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_james_100709.html
    Wade's team? Maybe. It's more of an honour thing. Doesn't change the fact that Lebron is the better player and the reason for their success from 2010 and on.





    Lebron never won anything as the man? I guess it was Wade who was the main reason the Heat won the title.

    You're pathetic. I don't understand why you don't even have the integrity to admit you're a troll.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    HCA (Homecourt Advantage)
    Posts
    65,625
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    1. This is a hypothetical situation. Lebron has never been given the opportunity to win with a franchise that never won before while at the same time, having the supporting cast as good as Jordan's.

    2. Wrong again. Heat would have beat the Bulls regardless, and the Bulls would've still needed to get past the Celtics. The Magic faced the Pacers in the first round, and even with a healthy Dwight, they would have needed to beat the Pacers, something that wasn't going to happen anyways. So even if Howard was injured or healthy, the Heat would've faced the Pacers regardless.

    Also, I love how you COMPLETELY ignore Bosh was gone for most of those series and Wade was sub par. Bosh injured and Wade sucking is the reason they barely got past. It was like playing in Cleveland all over again.

    3. I understand that if it's recent, but you seem to rely on that argument too much when it can't apply all situations. You also rely on a similar argument how he couldn't win with players like Ben Wallace and Shaq and thinking Lebron would win despite them not being a difference maker in their late 30's than in their championship year.
    Jordan was never given a supporting cast, he turned his players into the supporting cast. Lebron got everyone that was already proven. He came into the league playing with a guy who made the allstar team in Big Z. In fact you could say Big Z is the reason Lebron made it his 2nd year.


    MJ didn't acquire a guy that was a top 10 player either. He acquired a guy that was coming off the bench that became a top 10 player in the league over time after playing with MJ. That is a Big Difference. It's one thing if MJ got Pippen like Wade got Shaq when he was already a top 5-10 player in the league. He didn't though.

    So Saying Lebron didn't have a top 10 player on his team is irrelevant in this case because MJ didn't get a top 10 player either to play with. The equivalent of that happening for Lebron is basically having a guy who came off the bench initially and that was raw and then a few years later is an allstar and top player in the league. Example for Lebron would be JJ Hickson turning into a star.

    When I say handed I am referring to being "handed" to a team as a star already basically being a "developed player". Examples: Shaq to Miami in 2005, Ray Allen to Boston in 2008, Barkley to Phoenix in 1993, Drexler to Houston in 1995. Basically guys when they were already proven stars in the league and great 1st/2nd options on teams.
    Manu nor Parker were handed to the Duncan. "They developed while playing with him." Same thing with Pippen. They were not developed players before hand. Jamsion, Shaq, Mo were already developed players. Shaq was getting 17 and 8 last season, Jamison 20 and 8 and Mo 17 and 6 before playing with the Cavs the year before.


    And the thing people are forgetting is that the Heat had the most allstars the past 2 seasons on the allstar team. Not to mention Lebron joined forces with a top 3-5 player who already won a title as the main guy. That is totally different.

    Lebron had a better chance in Cleveland to be in that top echelon. Leaving a team to go play with a proven winner in his prime is not going to put you in that top 3 all time when you don't bring a title to the franchise that drafted you. Essentially the way he is getting titles, any player can do. Just go jump ship and play with another elite player that has already gotten it done.
    Lebron decided to play with a guy who won as the man already in that player's city. It would have been like someone like MJ leaving Chicago to Detroit in 1989 to play with Isiah Thomas when he already won as the man and then try to proclaim MJ as the GOAT when he left to go play with a proven winner in his city.



    Wade stayed with the Franchise that drafted him, he won a title with the franchise that drafted him. He brought the city it's only title a city that drafted him. Shaq was traded to Miami, Wade didn't join forces or go play with Shaq, Shaq went to play with Wade. The same thing Lebron and Bosh did. They wanted to play with the proven winner in his city that the franchise drafted him in.


    You trying to tell me it would have helped MJ's case in the all time rankings going to play with Isiah in Detroit in his city when Isiah was already a proven winner at the time? I don't think so.

    Anyway, I don't call going to play with a guy who already won a title as the man in Wade "getting help", that is more that you are begging him for help to get you over the hump since he actually proved he can win as the man.


    Mo Williams made the team the first year. And Ben Wallace was clearly the man on the Pistons. He finished 7th in MVP voting that year when no one else was even on the list. Not to mention was the only allstar on the team. The team had been the #1 seed the year prior as well before Rasheed even got there.
    And I love how people dismiss Shaq as if he was a scrub. He not only outscored Lebron in the pivotal game 5 when the Cavs got blown out, but he was also the allstar game mvp the season before joining Lebron and put up 18 ppg and 8 rpg that season. Not to mention a 3x finals mvp winner and 1x league mvp winner. Fact is, is that Lebron those years had guys who were proven winners already.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    36,579
    vCash
    1090
    Quote Originally Posted by JordansBulls View Post
    Jordan was never given a supporting cast, he turned his players into the supporting cast. Lebron got everyone that was already proven. He came into the league playing with a guy who made the allstar team in Big Z. In fact you could say Big Z is the reason Lebron made it his 2nd year.
    Jordan's team mates> Lebron's team mates. Lebron never got the luxury of having players the same caliber as Pippen or Rodman IN THEIR PRIME and not washed up players like Ben Wallace and Shaq.


    MJ didn't acquire a guy that was a top 10 player either. He acquired a guy that was coming off the bench that became a top 10 player in the league over time after playing with MJ. That is a Big Difference. It's one thing if MJ got Pippen like Wade got Shaq when he was already a top 5-10 player in the league. He didn't though.
    And Lebron never got the luxury of having a player develop into a superstar because his GM's were incompetent.

    So Saying Lebron didn't have a top 10 player on his team is irrelevant in this case because MJ didn't get a top 10 player either to play with. The equivalent of that happening for Lebron is basically having a guy who came off the bench initially and that was raw and then a few years later is an allstar and top player in the league. Example for Lebron would be JJ Hickson turning into a star.
    There was no hope for anyone on the Cavs because of horrible GM's. Lebron never had Collins and Phil developing other players. Lebron had Ferry as his GM. Lebron never got lucky the way MJ did in terms of surrounding cast. He had to take matters into his own hands.

    When I say handed I am referring to being "handed" to a team as a star already basically being a "developed player". Examples: Shaq to Miami in 2005, Ray Allen to Boston in 2008, Barkley to Phoenix in 1993, Drexler to Houston in 1995. Basically guys when they were already proven stars in the league and great 1st/2nd options on teams.
    Lebron never had that luxury of having a current proven star (not a former star) and a great 1st/2nd option on the team.


    Manu nor Parker were handed to the Duncan. "They developed while playing with him." Same thing with Pippen. They were not developed players before hand. Jamsion, Shaq, Mo were already developed players. Shaq was getting 17 and 8 last season, Jamison 20 and 8 and Mo 17 and 6 before playing with the Cavs the year before.
    Mo Williams was a product of Lebron. Jamison was there for half a season but he was not even close to being in the same caliber as other 2nd options on centending teams. Shaq's season before was a product of the Sun's miraculous medical staff.

    And the thing people are forgetting is that the Heat had the most allstars the past 2 seasons on the allstar team. Not to mention Lebron joined forces with a top 3-5 player who already won a title as the main guy. That is totally different.
    Lebron had a better chance in Cleveland to be in that top echelon. Leaving a team to go play with a proven winner in his prime is not going to put you in that top 3 all time when you don't bring a title to the franchise that drafted you. Essentially the way he is getting titles, any player can do. Just go jump ship and play with another elite player that has already gotten it done.
    Lebron decided to play with a guy who won as the man already in that player's city. It would have been like someone like MJ leaving Chicago to Detroit in 1989 to play with Isiah Thomas when he already won as the man and then try to proclaim MJ as the GOAT when he left to go play with a proven winner in his city.

    Wade stayed with the Franchise that drafted him, he won a title with the franchise that drafted him. He brought the city it's only title a city that drafted him. Shaq was traded to Miami, Wade didn't join forces or go play with Shaq, Shaq went to play with Wade. The same thing Lebron and Bosh did. They wanted to play with the proven winner in his city that the franchise drafted him in.

    You trying to tell me it would have helped MJ's case in the all time rankings going to play with Isiah in Detroit in his city when Isiah was already a proven winner at the time? I don't think so.

    Anyway, I don't call going to play with a guy who already won a title as the man in Wade "getting help", that is more that you are begging him for help to get you over the hump since he actually proved he can win as the man.
    To make it simple, they both had top 10 players on their teams when they won. Different ways that player got on the team but still the same when you look at it. I'm not going to blame Lebron and punish him for someone else's incompetent when it comes to not being able to draft or not being able to make simple trades.

    Why should I hold a player different depending on whether a transaction occured via trade, draft or FA signing?

    Also, it's not that hard. Lebron was the main person in the Heat's championship season. Jordan could still be GOAT if he went to the Pistons. If he got the same achievements, it is what it is. I'm not going to hold it against him leaving if Bulls management sucked.



    Mo Williams made the team the first year. And Ben Wallace was clearly the man on the Pistons. He finished 7th in MVP voting that year when no one else was even on the list. Not to mention was the only allstar on the team. The team had been the #1 seed the year prior as well before Rasheed even got there.
    What does Ben Wallace's near MVP season had to do with his time with the Cavs? He wasn't even producing anything close, so it shouldn't be relevant. Also, we both know Mo Williams sucks.

    And I love how people dismiss Shaq as if he was a scrub. He not only outscored Lebron in the pivotal game 5 when the Cavs got blown out, but he was also the allstar game mvp the season before joining Lebron and put up 18 ppg and 8 rpg that season. Not to mention a 3x finals mvp winner and 1x league mvp winner. Fact is, is that Lebron those years had guys who were proven winners already.
    Shaq outscores him in 1 game and he's the man of the Cavs instead of Lebron? Also, why does it matter what happened the previous year. He posted solid numbers the year before then sucked once he went to Celveland.

    You seem to keep going back to those 1999-2003 seasons. Shaq wasn't producing anything close compared to those seasons. Why should it matter if he was the MVP in the past. It had no bearing on something that's occurring 6 years after considering Shaq would never have been the same dominant person that led to those rings.

    The past couldn't healp Shq produce it the present. Therefore, it shouldn't have ANY bearing. That's like saying because I got a good grade in my 1st test, I'm going to have a good grade in my 2nd test completely unrelated to the 1st one.

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    33,461
    vCash
    1894
    Quote Originally Posted by JordansBulls View Post
    False, Lebron had a guy who was a proven winner in Ben Wallace
    Old and injured. Moot point

    and then had a guy who won it all in Shaq who is a 1x league mvp winner and 3x finals mvp winner.
    Old and injured, another moot point.

    Not to mention in this era you had role players win finals mvp in Billups, Parker and Pierce.
    LOL false

    Not to mention guys like Jason Terry outscore you.
    Yup, better than retiring and not playing at all.

    Lebron was pushed 7 games by a team missing a starter and also he lost with HCA against inferior teams. Teams with a worse SRS rating as well.
    Nah, he lost to superior teams when you account for context.

    I like how you bring up MJ went against the Knicks and went 7 but failed to mention Lebron went against a weaker center in Dwight and lost with HCA despite having the superior team.
    LOL at Dwight being a weaker center, why then is he the 3x DPOY putting up better production?


    Your logic fails you yet again. First Billups is a role player, then Ben Wallace is "the man" and now Ewing bests Dwight, your bias is showing.

    U MAD BRETHREN?

    "It’s absolutely ludicrous” (to judge players based on whether they’ve won a title.)

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    HCA (Homecourt Advantage)
    Posts
    65,625
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    Jordan's team mates> Lebron's team mates. Lebron never got the luxury of having players the same caliber as Pippen or Rodman IN THEIR PRIME and not washed up players like Ben Wallace and Shaq.



    And Lebron never got the luxury of having a player develop into a superstar because his GM's were incompetent.



    There was no hope for anyone on the Cavs because of horrible GM's. Lebron never had Collins and Phil developing other players. Lebron had Ferry as his GM. Lebron never got lucky the way MJ did in terms of surrounding cast. He had to take matters into his own hands.



    Lebron never had that luxury of having a current proven star (not a former star) and a great 1st/2nd option on the team.




    Mo Williams was a product of Lebron. Jamison was there for half a season but he was not even close to being in the same caliber as other 2nd options on centending teams. Shaq's season before was a product of the Sun's miraculous medical staff.





    To make it simple, they both had top 10 players on their teams when they won. Different ways that player got on the team but still the same when you look at it. I'm not going to blame Lebron and punish him for someone else's incompetent when it comes to not being able to draft or not being able to make simple trades.

    Why should I hold a player different depending on whether a transaction occured via trade, draft or FA signing?

    Also, it's not that hard. Lebron was the main person in the Heat's championship season. Jordan could still be GOAT if he went to the Pistons. If he got the same achievements, it is what it is. I'm not going to hold it against him leaving if Bulls management sucked.





    What does Ben Wallace's near MVP season had to do with his time with the Cavs? He wasn't even producing anything close, so it shouldn't be relevant. Also, we both know Mo Williams sucks.



    Shaq outscores him in 1 game and he's the man of the Cavs instead of Lebron? Also, why does it matter what happened the previous year. He posted solid numbers the year before then sucked once he went to Celveland.

    You seem to keep going back to those 1999-2003 seasons. Shaq wasn't producing anything close compared to those seasons. Why should it matter if he was the MVP in the past. It had no bearing on something that's occurring 6 years after considering Shaq would never have been the same dominant person that led to those rings.

    The past couldn't healp Shq produce it the present. Therefore, it shouldn't have ANY bearing. That's like saying because I got a good grade in my 1st test, I'm going to have a good grade in my 2nd test completely unrelated to the 1st one.

    Lebron came into the league playing with an allstar in his prime in Big Z. Big Z made the allstar game before Lebron ever came in. And Pippen became a star because of MJ

    Most of the writers and articles point to that MJ aided Pippen into becoming the player he became.

    Here are a few:


    Source: GoogleBooks


    Pippen, unlike other Bulls who usually kept their distance from Jordan, tried to learn all he could from Jordan in practice. In turn, Jordan worked with Pippen on his moves, jump shot, and defense and taught him mental toughness.

    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/ask-sa...ag-033012.html

    Sam: I remember Jordan helping Pippen with this. In Pippen’s first several seasons, he rarely got calls on drives. Jordan used to show him — we were permitted to watch practice then — how to drive into contact and then react to the contact. Pippen used to practice it all the time with Jordan showing him.
    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Pippen relates on how his game improved - Link

    He was very competitive, so he went at me and that helped me learn,” said Pippen. “You continue to compete against the very best every day, and you will get better, or you’ll be embarrassed.”

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...sejordan090909

    “Michael was great at identifying things,” Krause said. “Would Pippen have been great someplace else? Michael absolutely killed Scottie in practice every day for his first two years. Mike just tore Pip up. He made Pip learn how to compete and forced him into playing hard. Had there not been someone to challenge Scottie like that, I’m not sure what would’ve happened to him.”


    http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/asksam_091030.html

    Sam: I know there's that "he's a rookie thing," though I thought more with Rose was the way he drove and then was so quick he could avoid the contact. I think with him he was more accustomed to having just come out of playing in the Chicago playgrounds where you aren't going to get calls going to the basket. I remember watching Jordan not long after Pippen joined the Bulls showing Pippen how to drive and go into a defender and then finish your shot. Wade was a more mature player having gone to college several years, and Anthony played in the post and inside a lot. That's one area for Rose for improve. He's a quick study and I think you'll see him taking the hit since he's strong and can do it and drawing more calls this season.

    http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/asksam_091023.html

    Would you still consider pippen to be included on the 50 greatest players list? I know that he pioneered/changed the way that his position was played creating more of a point-forward spot, which paved the way for players like melo and lebron. But he never did accomplish anything by himself, and proved in Portland that he couldn't carry a team.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sam: You can't judge with Portland given he was well past his athletic prime and had lost basically all his explosiveness and was operating on guile. He was a much smarter player than ever given credit for, though many still question his top 50 inclusion. The notion is if not for Jordan, there would be no chance. And I tend to agree. If he were picked by the Clippers at No. 4 in that draft as he should have been, he would not have been a top 50 player because he couldn't create that much for himself. But he wasn't and he was the No. 2 part of six championships and was a multiple defensive player and gold medalist on the Dream Team. So he deserves the recognition and will be inducted into the Hall of Fame as a result. Most everyone who has succeeded has benefitted from good timing on occasion. Pippen did as well, but he also made the most of it.


    http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nb...ory?id=5453558

    CHICAGO -- The Detroit Pistons may have toughened up the Bulls in the late 1980s and early 1990s, but Jerry Krause wouldn't give the Bad Boys any undue credit for contributing to Scottie Pippen's basketball manhood or his Hall of Fame career.

    "No, Michael [Jordan] made him a man," said the Bulls' former general manager, now a scout for the White Sox. "The Pistons didn't have anything to do with that. Michael made him a man and Doug [Collins] did a great job with him in his first year. And then when Phil [Jackson] brought the triangle [offense] in, it really helped him because he had all the physical skills to be great."

    "And he had Michael to beat on him for a year every day in practice and Michael beat him to death," Krause said. "The practices were great because you could see him at the end of the year start to grow and start to fight Michael . . ."

    Who became a star because of Lebron? Don't say Mo because he was getting 17 and 6 before ever playing with Lebron.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    36,579
    vCash
    1090
    Quote Originally Posted by JordansBulls View Post
    Lebron came into the league playing with an allstar in his prime in Big Z. Big Z made the allstar game before Lebron ever came in. And Pippen became a star because of MJ
    Lol, Pippen had the talent to be a top 50 player even without Michael Jordan and would've have been a star regardless if he played with someone like Lebron, Wade, McGrady and other star wings. Also, Big Z was never the same caliber as any of the stars on MJ's team.

    Who became a star because of Lebron? Don't say Mo because he was getting 17 and 6 before ever playing with Lebron.
    But Mo is a correct answer. Was Mo ever a star before Lebron? No. But even then, Mo sucked. His talent is arguably one of the worse out of all players ever to be named an all star.
    Last edited by Raps08-09 Champ; 08-16-2012 at 05:08 PM.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    HCA (Homecourt Advantage)
    Posts
    65,625
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    Lol, Pippen had the talent to be a top 50 player even without Michael Jordan and would've have been a star regardless if he played with someone like Lebron, Wade, McGrady and other star wings. Also, Big Z was never the same caliber as any of the stars on MJ's team.



    But Mo is a correct answer. Was Mo ever a star before Lebron? No. But even then, Mo sucked. His talent is arguably one of the worse out of all players ever to be named an all star.
    http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/asksam_091023.html

    Would you still consider pippen to be included on the 50 greatest players list? I know that he pioneered/changed the way that his position was played creating more of a point-forward spot, which paved the way for players like melo and lebron. But he never did accomplish anything by himself, and proved in Portland that he couldn't carry a team.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sam: You can't judge with Portland given he was well past his athletic prime and had lost basically all his explosiveness and was operating on guile. He was a much smarter player than ever given credit for, though many still question his top 50 inclusion. The notion is if not for Jordan, there would be no chance. And I tend to agree. If he were picked by the Clippers at No. 4 in that draft as he should have been, he would not have been a top 50 player because he couldn't create that much for himself. But he wasn't and he was the No. 2 part of six championships and was a multiple defensive player and gold medalist on the Dream Team. So he deserves the recognition and will be inducted into the Hall of Fame as a result. Most everyone who has succeeded has benefitted from good timing on occasion. Pippen did as well, but he also made the most of it.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Posts
    43,329
    vCash
    1675
    Behind Amare

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    36,579
    vCash
    1090
    Quote Originally Posted by JordansBulls View Post
    That article states if he went to the Clippers, a team that didn't have top 20 player talent on the team.

    Pair him with ANOTHER star such as Lebron/Wade/McGrady/Durant/whoever and he would still have developed into the player he was. Jordan wasn't some God who magically touched Pippen and he became a top 50 player all time. All Pippen needed as a 1st option on the team so he can develop into the 2nd option that he was. Insert someone like Lebron/Wade/other great wing players and he's still going to develop into a similar player.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    HCA (Homecourt Advantage)
    Posts
    65,625
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    That article states if he went to the Clippers, a team that didn't have top 20 player talent on the team.

    Pair him with ANOTHER star such as Lebron/Wade/McGrady/Durant/whoever and he would still have developed into the player he was. Jordan wasn't some God who magically touched Pippen and he became a top 50 player all time. All Pippen needed as a 1st option on the team so he can develop into the 2nd option that he was. Insert someone like Lebron/Wade/other great wing players and he's still going to develop into a similar player.
    Reread and provide articles as I have done.

    Source: GoogleBooks


    Pippen, unlike other Bulls who usually kept their distance from Jordan, tried to learn all he could from Jordan in practice. In turn, Jordan worked with Pippen on his moves, jump shot, and defense and taught him mental toughness.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...sejordan090909

    “Michael was great at identifying things,” Krause said. “Would Pippen have been great someplace else? Michael absolutely killed Scottie in practice every day for his first two years. Mike just tore Pip up. He made Pip learn how to compete and forced him into playing hard. Had there not been someone to challenge Scottie like that, I’m not sure what would’ve happened to him.”





    http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nb...ory?id=5453558

    CHICAGO -- The Detroit Pistons may have toughened up the Bulls in the late 1980s and early 1990s, but Jerry Krause wouldn't give the Bad Boys any undue credit for contributing to Scottie Pippen's basketball manhood or his Hall of Fame career.

    "No, Michael [Jordan] made him a man," said the Bulls' former general manager, now a scout for the White Sox. "The Pistons didn't have anything to do with that. Michael made him a man and Doug [Collins] did a great job with him in his first year. And then when Phil [Jackson] brought the triangle [offense] in, it really helped him because he had all the physical skills to be great."

    "And he had Michael to beat on him for a year every day in practice and Michael beat him to death," Krause said. "The practices were great because you could see him at the end of the year start to grow and start to fight Michael . . ."
    Last edited by JordansBulls; 08-16-2012 at 07:39 PM.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    36,579
    vCash
    1090
    I have to provide you articles with something common sense? As most of PSDers, I don't have a life but you know, I rather not waste it on something useless like reading 20 year old articles.

    All those articles state is that he learned from MJ and he benefited from being the 2nd option to a top player like MJ. Replace MJ with someone of similar caliber and he can do the same things. Common sense.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    HCA (Homecourt Advantage)
    Posts
    65,625
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    I have to provide you articles with something common sense? As most of PSDers, I don't have a life but you know, I rather not waste it on something useless like reading 20 year old articles.

    All those articles state is that he learned from MJ and he benefited from being the 2nd option to a top player like MJ. Replace MJ with someone of similar caliber and he can do the same things. Common sense.
    No those articles show how Pippen became the player he became.
    You have other articles proving otherwise?
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •