The Official Flyers 2012 Offseason Thread

[phillyeaglesman]

The Flyers, in my mind, had a very good season. Especially with all the roster changes that happened before the season even started. Holmgren took last year's team and totally changed the face of it with two very bold moves. What he was able to do was get this team younger, faster, more skilled, and more cohesive....

After seeing how this team performed together he has a better understanding of what else needs to be accomplished, roster-wise, to get us over the hump....

Carle should be gone - he had a terrible playoff and was exposed as a weak defender in my mind....
Jagr won't be resigned - I think he brought in here to show other players how to prepare for an NHL season and mentor Giroux...
Timonen - he could retire....He's 37 and looked very banged up in the last couple weeks...it could free up $6.3 million
Pavel Kubina - should not be re-signed...waste of a draft pick on Holmgren's part...but he needed to get an NHL defender in here because of injuries...
Jody Shelley - Waive him or keep him? $1.1 million is alot for a player who sits all season.
Briere and Hartnell aren't going anywhere because they have No-Movement clauses in their contracts...
Voracek - has to be re-signed. HE showed in the playoffs that with more playing time he could be a very productive player for this team. Keeping him on the 3rd line shouldn't be an option. He was definitely a top-6 forward against the Pens and Devils...
Bryzgalov - I'm praying the new collective bargaining agreement includes an amnesty clause in there and we can cut Bryz without cap repercussions....I still believe Snider had more to do with Bryzgalov getting signed here more then Holmgren....

This team is in very good shape for the future. I just wish the Flyers would get a "Larry Robinson" type assistant coach in here to get our defense positionally sound. We spent alot of time running around our zone this season and it cost us alot of games...

as much as i agree that this was about Snider, you can't get rid of Bryz. for what? what does that solve? all it does is cause more problems. who do you bring in to replace him? i don't know if anyone is available that's worth mentioning.

the Flyers don't play the type of system that allows you to get away with mediocre goaltending. they need a real solid goalie back there, and Bryz has shown he can be that guy. i think overall this was just an adjustment year for him, and i want to see him back for another year to see how he responds.

[TheRuckus]

Keep it civil, guys.

[TheRuckus]

as much as i agree that this was about Snider, you can't get rid of Bryz. for what? what does that solve? all it does is cause more problems. who do you bring in to replace him? i don't know if anyone is available that's worth mentioning.

the Flyers don't play the type of system that allows you to get away with mediocre goaltending. they need a real solid goalie back there, and Bryz has shown he can be that guy. i think overall this was just an adjustment year for him, and i want to see him back for another year to see how he responds.

Bob.

The kid showed serious promise, then had one bad period against Buffalo in last year's playoffs, and hasn't gotten a fair shake since.

One of 51 million reasons I hated the Bryz signing when it happened, and still hate it.

Not going to happen, regardless. Even if there's an amnesty clause, you have to think they'll use it on Pronger.

[PhillyBronco08]

bryz will be here for a least 2 more season's whether us flyers fans like it or not so we have to deal with it so i dont know why "some" fans on here are getting so bent out of shape and acting like 5 year olds.. hopefully he can come back next year and play better end of story. hopefully we can get a defensemen that can play and not sign carle. so again"some" people need to stop acting like children in here

[Randall Stevens]

Keep it civil, guys.

thanks for cleaning it up.

Bob.

The kid showed serious promise, then had one bad period against Buffalo in last year's playoffs, and hasn't gotten a fair shake since.

One of 51 million reasons I hated the Bryz signing when it happened, and still hate it.

If I've said it once I've said it 1000 times, Bob needs to go to the AHL for 2-3 seasons and play 60 games a year. He has all the talent to become an elite goaltender, but just doesn't have the fundamentals to lead a team to a cup yet.

Its a shame watching him be forced into a starting NHL role so young, because he can truly develop into a star. Goaltenders generally dont hit their strides until they are around 26-28 years old. Look at Pekka Rinne

But, Bryz stays for many reasons, one of them being there are no "win now" goaltenders available.

[Randall Stevens]

I dont get why so many people are speculating the Cap will go up a lot next year. like Sam Carchidi thinking it will go up 5 million:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...150725385.html

There may very well be a lockout this summer, and one of the big reasons is the league and team owners think the cap is too high were it currently sits....

[PhillyPhan8790]

Suter isnt much better than Carle, and he'll get more than Matt in FA.

[Hatch]

Don't think they move Briere...I think they're more then open to moving JVR. Hartnell could go depending on how contract talks go. His value is at his highest, but I think he appears to be incredibly well liked. Not sure how that would go over..seems like a desperation move.

I can't imagine any scenario where Hartnell gets moved. The guy was a beast this year.....a close second to that is his contract status. I think he's only got one year left on his deal so getting anything of value in return isn't likely. Trading him in a salary dump doesn't make sense since it would cost as much as he's making now to replace what he's been doing...

[TheRuckus]

Suter isnt much better than Carle, and he'll get more than Matt in FA.

Didn't you get the memo? Carle's the worst player in the history of the NHL. He doesn't hit anybody, can't score, has bad positioning, is a turnover machine, is a cancer in the locker room, steals candy from small children, kicks puppies, and is actually on the take from other teams to throw games.

Meanwhile, Suter is Bobby Orr, Scott Stevens, and Nick Lidstrom all rolled into one. Plus he gives every fan 20 bucks before the game.

[PhillyPhan8790]

Didn't you get the memo? Carle's the worst player in the history of the NHL. He doesn't hit anybody, can't score, has bad positioning, is a turnover machine, is a cancer in the locker room, steals candy from small children, kicks puppies, and is actually on the take from other teams to throw games.

Meanwhile, Suter is Bobby Orr, Scott Stevens, and Nick Lidstrom all rolled into one. Plus he gives every fan 20 bucks before the game.

Hahaha. People just clearly get entranced in the idea that they've been watching Carle for years now, and although pretty consistent, he's not the perfect all-around, do-it-all, kind of defenseman people dream of. Their convinced there's someone out there that can do it better.

He can pass, shine defensively(sometimes), PP, PK. I'd just like to see him trust his shot more. People forget how much he does, because he's almost so -dare I say- "Kimmo-esque", in how subtle he plays.

Over the past two years... Suter has had close too as many hits and turnover's as Matt. Suter's been playing with arguably with the best Dman in the league as his partner and Carle's been lugging around MAB for half the year.

And btw, the dude is INSANELY durable.

[PhillyPhan8790]

I know I just sparked a mega-argument with my Carle post. But I'm sure this'll start a bigger one.

Does anyone agree with me that Hartnell is widely overpaid? I mean, I'd love him back after next season, but more along the lines of 3M and Not closer to the 5-6M he's def gonna get. He prob won't sign for that but c'mon. He's got a wicked shot and his one-timers from the hashes are perfect, i'll give him that. But other than that, what does he do? He's improved his passing from last season definitely, but he can't skate, play special teams, he rivals my grandfather's athleticism, he's horrible along the boards, and in the corners and his stick-minors get me the most. I can't see paying him top-dollar for doing one thing well.

Mind you, I'm just trying to get everyone's minds off this season. Let's keep moving forward.

[castan_b]

well ... this is a depressing thread that was unexpected after that first round matchup.

the CBA is going to be important, as well as the new salary cap number that comes out of it ... from what they are talking about, it looks like that will go up 5 million and hold there (at a minimum) for the duration of the 3 billion dollar comcast/nbc investment.

the team wasn't right when JVR came back to the line up ... my theory ... too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the soup ... we have an awful lot of very skilled players who need the puck ... and next year is the official test to see if JVR can wing Giroux ...

if JVR is on the left side and that is the future ... where does hartnell go? back with Briere?

lots of tough questions this offseason ... primarily ...

1) where did simmonds' physical game go in the playoffs (for that matter the rest of the team, but i was disapointed he didn't do more checking)?

2) how do you progress Couturier and Schenn? Are you moving Schenn to wing until Briere is done his contract? Who do you see as their future linemates? Do you want to hide Couturier like the pens do with Jordan Staal - or do you want to let his offensive game (which is very very good) grow?

3) if no pronger, who is C ?

this is my fringe quesiton:

f) JVR and Vorcheck play virtually the same game - especially when JVR isn't checking ... one is better on puck control and defense, one is a better shot and willing to stand infront of the net ... both are fast and big ... both are young ... you can get out of the JVR contract before it starts by trading him .... OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (please note the sarcasm) ... but it is a legit question.

[delfinko]

JVR returned from his broken foot way too soon I think. He was terribly slow with his cutting/turning/acceleration. And his NMC I believe kicks in July 1st, so he'd have to be moved fast. Homer traded away 2 recently signed contracts last year, doing it again this year would slaughter his reputation and no free agents would trust him, or sign here.

Full summer off to rehab, just gotta hope JVR returns as a 30 goal scorer.

I had a very similar list and statement in the game thread last night, but mine was Hartnell/Briere/Timonen, just one being asked to waive their NMC just like Gagne 2 years ago.

It's unfortunate, but the fact that contracts can't be restructured really limits the moves the Flyers can make. They almost have to move Hartnell or Timmonen. Briere shouldn't go anywhere, he shows up when the real season starts, the other 2 have disappeared the past 2 Aprils.

Timmonen should be the mostly likely to go. It will be another trade just like the Gagne trade too, we get nothing of value except the cap space. He's really showed his age late in the season, and it's happened the past few years. The drop in play hasn't as bad as O'Donnell last year, but considering he's paid to be a number 1 and playing like a number 5, it's time to pawn him off on a team that needs to reach the salary floor.

[castan_b]

oh ... and matty turnover machine carle cannot be signed for anything more than grossmann ... if he doesn't accept, ship him the heck out ... then say 10000 hail mary's because the dude is a great guy who does great work at CHOP and other types of community service - which should not go unnoticed... he is a good person.

[Hatch]

I don't dislike Carle nor do I love him. I agree that he's one of those more subtle type players that doesnt' really have a big presence out there. I really didn't like his game this year much. But perhaps having him be paired with a guy like Bourdon a lot wasn't fair. If we look at Carle being good, but probably not THAT good where he can handle being the guy that leads his pairing then that's fine.

With him it really comes down to money...if his cap hit could be acceptable I'm OK with him there...but if someone is going to drive his price up a little too much then we have to let him walk....

It would seem that giving Coburn an extension and signing Grossman and leaving Carle unattended to is a sign that they will probably have to let him go....but I think a lot will depend on Pronger's situation...Carle may have to be the fallback plan there.