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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by delfinko View Post
    What's everyone's deal with Schenn? Why is he so desirable? Maybe it was just the way he played against the Flyers, but giving JVR, Briere, Read, a first, or Bob? That all just seems like too much for what I've seen. Add in the fact that he was basically pushed to the number 6 in Toronto, I don't think you need to give that much up for him.
    Schenn is a right-handed defenseman, which the Flyers sorely need.
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  2. #197
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    So give them Lilja and a second rounder and solve two problems!


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  3. #198
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    ^^ lol this isnt Madden NHL we cant do things like that, it has to be logical on both sides.

  4. #199
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    Yes i know that haha


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  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by delfinko View Post
    Except it's really not the same at all. Suter isn't a 31 year old goalie, he's a 27 year old defenseman. You will be getting Suter as he enters his prime rather than the last 2-3 years of it. Plus defensemen typically last longer than goalies, discounting injuries. If you give him an 8 year contract, when it's over he will still be younger than Kimmo Timmonen is right now. If Suter is only as good as Timmonen has been the last 2-3 seasons, I would gladly take him for the next 8 years.

    I'm not saying he's a must have, but to be able to add an all-star defenseman to an already good group on the blueline would be tremendous. Maybe Weber made him better, I won't say he did or didn't but he's not going to be an all star without having the talent. Pair him with Carle, Timmonen or Meszaros and he's still a very good defenseman and you have 3 very good defensive pairings.
    Well it could be the same thing if we overpay for suter.......suppose we give him an "elite" type contract and he's producing average results.....that's the point.....anyone would want him at a contract that's a fair value...it's when everyone feels pressured to overpay because the market of "best guy available" is very thin that it comes back to bite you..

  6. #201
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    Trade JVR for bogosian


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  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaddNewz View Post
    Bryz's contract is balanced over the entire length of it, 5.6 mil over the length of the contract. Which will actually be a great number if/when our defense evolves to protect him, and he becomes an Allstar goaltender.
    Well to be fair.....the defense was not very good for lots of stretches....however Bryz was not very good for lots of stretches too...He had every bit to do with his poor play at times as the defense.....

    The point of it being a suspect deal is not necessarily the average annual value.....if he would put up elite numbers that's not a bad number....however, the point being when you really look at it.....how many teams are in a position to commit to a long term deal at that type of number?....wouldn't think very many....so why on top of a big contract like that was there a need to give him an EIGHT YEAR NMC?? I mean look around the league..what other team was in that bad of a need of a goaltender that had that kind of money?....the contract is one thing..but the eight year NMC just seems like it was not great negotiating to me.......but that's what could put it in the bad contract category at some point.......

    I dunno...his post season comments about his feelings being hurt are not a good sign to me..

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giroux 4 MVP View Post
    I think you over value bob, someone awhile ago said that bob has the same potential as varlamov, which I no longer believe, I think bob at best would net a mid first round selection


    Quote Originally Posted by Giroux 4 MVP View Post
    I say trade bob to Tampa along with a later pick for the number 10 pick in the draft and call it a day

    no, if i was over-valuing bob, i'd be on your side. you meant i'm undervaluing him, but i'm not. the guy is a prospect. he's got a lot of potential, but he's very raw as a goalie. he's got a lot to learn. so trading him to a team that already has 2 young goalies just doesn't make sense for toronto.


    and what would be the point of the Flyers getting a top 10 pick?

  9. #204
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    Forget about all of this nonsense. Anyone who thinks the Flyers should just "get rid of Bryz" is an idiot for (at least) two reasons: (1) because there really is no practical way to unload that type of contract and (2) because there really isn't a point to throwing in the towel after one season in a new system, playing for a new team, and playing in a new conference (and yes, it does make a difference).

    Second: Carle is most likely gone. Suter will most likely not get $7M per season—if Ehrhoff only got $4M from Buffalo, I don't see Suter getting nearly double that. He's very talented, but he's not Lidstrom. If a team approaches Suter right, he might be willing to take an Ehrhoff-like deal (probably in the $5M range) for 8 or 10 years. If that is the case, the Flyers could (basically) swap Carle and $1.5M for Suter. Granted, they'd lock themselves into another big, long-term contract. Not sure if Homer wants to do that, but seeing as how Briere and Kimmo and Hartnell (nearly $18M) is coming off the books in the next two years, it might be something Homer is willing to explore.

    I don't see a compelling need to do much to the forward corps—Jagr will probably be back (probably around $2.8-$3.2M), and that is a good thing. He'll help provide some leadership, stability, and secondary scoring.

    The great thing about this team is that they don't have one "goal scorer"—they have 10 guys that can put the puck in the net and a top-3 playmaker in the NHL. Come playoff time, that's a lot harder to stop (generally) than the team that has one dominant line and some secondary scorers scattered about.

    Forget the NJD series. The only thing that taught us was (1) we need another mobile defenseman, (2) we're not going to win if we're not motivated and (3) we should probably come up with some better ways to break an aggressive forecheck.

    Add Suter, use the remaining draft picks we have to acquire (via the draft) a big, talented defenseman, and let's move on to next year. This team will only get better--they're young, they did better than many expected they would this season (how many people, honestly, at the beginning of the season said the Flyers would crush a fully healthy Penguins team in the playoffs?).

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    Forget about all of this nonsense. Anyone who thinks the Flyers should just "get rid of Bryz" is an idiot for (at least) two reasons: (1) because there really is no practical way to unload that type of contract and (2) because there really isn't a point to throwing in the towel after one season in a new system, playing for a new team, and playing in a new conference (and yes, it does make a difference).

    Second: Carle is most likely gone. Suter will most likely not get $7M per season—if Ehrhoff only got $4M from Buffalo, I don't see Suter getting nearly double that. He's very talented, but he's not Lidstrom. If a team approaches Suter right, he might be willing to take an Ehrhoff-like deal (probably in the $5M range) for 8 or 10 years. If that is the case, the Flyers could (basically) swap Carle and $1.5M for Suter. Granted, they'd lock themselves into another big, long-term contract. Not sure if Homer wants to do that, but seeing as how Briere and Kimmo and Hartnell (nearly $18M) is coming off the books in the next two years, it might be something Homer is willing to explore.

    I don't see a compelling need to do much to the forward corps—Jagr will probably be back (probably around $2.8-$3.2M), and that is a good thing. He'll help provide some leadership, stability, and secondary scoring.

    The great thing about this team is that they don't have one "goal scorer"—they have 10 guys that can put the puck in the net and a top-3 playmaker in the NHL. Come playoff time, that's a lot harder to stop (generally) than the team that has one dominant line and some secondary scorers scattered about.

    Forget the NJD series. The only thing that taught us was (1) we need another mobile defenseman, (2) we're not going to win if we're not motivated and (3) we should probably come up with some better ways to break an aggressive forecheck.

    Add Suter, use the remaining draft picks we have to acquire (via the draft) a big, talented defenseman, and let's move on to next year. This team will only get better--they're young, they did better than many expected they would this season (how many people, honestly, at the beginning of the season said the Flyers would crush a fully healthy Penguins team in the playoffs?).

    If the cap goes up by 5 million like some people think, then Sutter will easily get 7 million, and Carle will easily get 5.5 million. or more.


  11. #206
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    Heard cap was going to be 69 million


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  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Stevens View Post
    If the cap goes up by 5 million like some people think, then Sutter will easily get 7 million, and Carle will easily get 5.5 million. or more.
    I don't know if either guy gets quite that much...if you look around the league there are very few defenseman making over 6 million...VERY few. True that every year someone makes a little more money....but I'm not so sure that the market will put Suter in the 7 million dollar club.

    Also keep in mind that just because the cap is rumored to take a decent sized jump up that doesn't mean that teams will spend to it. There is still only a certain number of teams that will spend to it......I don't know that I see a bidding war for Suter. Given their roster situation I'd think that Detroit would chase him pretty hard....a guy in his situation is going to think "hockey city" for a fair deal not 7+ million to go play for the Blue Jackets.

    MY guess he'll get 6'ish......carle sticks around 4.5-5

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    no, if i was over-valuing bob, i'd be on your side. you meant i'm undervaluing him, but i'm not. the guy is a prospect. he's got a lot of potential, but he's very raw as a goalie. he's got a lot to learn. so trading him to a team that already has 2 young goalies just doesn't make sense for toronto.


    and what would be the point of the Flyers getting a top 10 pick?
    Two words: Jacob Trouba. Defenseman, 6'2", 194 lb, right-handed shot
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  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofphilly View Post
    Gusta is a joke and Reimer has the potential but Bob has better skills they have expressed interest in Bob last season and even this season. If the Flyes were smart they would do that...
    Ok, lets think like Toronto here. If I trade any player on my roster for Bob except a package including Gustavsson or Reimer I'm sending out a message that; 1. I don't believe in my goalies, therefore depreciating their value. 2. It shows the Toronto fan base that we're not serious about winning NOW, especially with Luongo willing to waive his NMC.

    I just can't see it happening. They expressed interest before Luongo went on the market. Remember they were rumored to want Nash as well, you have to keep those young pieces as trade bait for those two deals to even be looked at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatch View Post
    Well to be fair.....the defense was not very good for lots of stretches....however Bryz was not very good for lots of stretches too...He had every bit to do with his poor play at times as the defense.....

    The point of it being a suspect deal is not necessarily the average annual value.....if he would put up elite numbers that's not a bad number....however, the point being when you really look at it.....how many teams are in a position to commit to a long term deal at that type of number?....wouldn't think very many....so why on top of a big contract like that was there a need to give him an EIGHT YEAR NMC?? I mean look around the league..what other team was in that bad of a need of a goaltender that had that kind of money?....the contract is one thing..but the eight year NMC just seems like it was not great negotiating to me.......but that's what could put it in the bad contract category at some point.......

    I dunno...his post season comments about his feelings being hurt are not a good sign to me..
    Bryz doesn't strike me as a loyal guy. I think if things get as bad as they have for Luongo he will be more than willing to waive his NMC. He doesn't seem like a good match for a big hockey market with a demanding and harsh fanbase, scrutinizing media, and the world not revolving around Bryz. I think later on down the line when 5.6M isnt all that a expensive we can ship him to an Anaheim or some smaller market team and he would welcome the change of atmosphere.
    Last edited by BaddNewz; 05-12-2012 at 08:59 AM. Reason: spelling
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  15. #210
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    ^^ good point about Luongo but I think other teams would be going after him too, and lets not forget that Roberto basically gets to pick where he wants to go. If hes waiving his NMC then he can say yes and no to where / whatever.

    Would you want to play in Toronto? Im not so sure about that, maybe if they still had Sudin, Mogilny, Clark, Roberts, Kaberle, Cujo.... maybe back then yeah. But now they are barely a playoff team at best. But Burke is a very odd person and who knows whats going on in his head lol.

    You figure Bryz has 2 more years to prove hes a sane legit goaltender. If not jury is out. Take from this what you want, but Homer isnt happy... read this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotoworld:
    Flyers GM Paul Holmgren took issue with Ilya Bryzgalov's recent comments about the media's negativity.
    Bryzgalov recently said, "What I lived through this season I wouldn't wish to an enemy." This isn't the first time this season that Bryzgalov has attracted attention for his dramatic and sometimes amusing remarks to the media. Holmgren might have had enough of it though, because he said in response, "His job is to stop pucks and help us win games. It's not Comedy Central." Bryzgalov served the first season of his nine-year/$51 million contract with Philadelphia. On the subject of whether or not Bryzgalov lived up to expectations in 2011-12, Holmgren said, "I'd probably say, no."
    Last edited by fanofphilly; 05-12-2012 at 10:27 AM.

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