Cleveland Browns General Discussion Thread

[Stonevision]

I like it. If Gruden was the choice it wouldn't be a complete change in philosophy on either side of the ball. He's a West Coast Offense guy and his teams in Tampa Bay were 4-3, cover 2 defenses. Not too sure how excited he would be to be in the same division as his brother though...

[letsgobrownies7]

I would be uber happy.

[CLEver]

Brandon Weeden, while he hasn't been great by any means, he hasn't been terrible. The main issue that he faces is that instead of taking a slow, or even slightly moderate, approach to the passing game for their rookie quarterback, The Browns coaching staff has had Weeden attempt 202 passes already this year. That's 5th most in the League!!!!! AND furthermore the receivers he's forced to throw it to are some of the least experienced/talented out of any receiving corps in the league. Meanwhile Trent Richardson is currently 17th in rushing attempts per game and the Browns as a whole are 30th in attempts per game. I under stand that he's older and that they may be trying to throw him into the deep end to see what he can do, but they have to balance the run game in there too for any passing game to be effective. We aren't getting a good gauge of his abilities because teams are always expecting him to throw the ball and the coaches continue to tell him to, there is no element of surprise to our gameplan thus making it impossible for Weeden to succeed.

Look no further than the fact that during the Giants game, twice on the same drive on 3rd down and 1, the #3 overall pick and runningback of the future, Trent Richardson, wasn't just not given the ball in favor of a passing play, but he was taken off the field completely so that Chris "I only come in on passing plays" Ogbonnaya could come in. (He has 2 rushes and 9 receptions this season) This left the Giants absolutely no need to look for the run on the play. Its not the fact that they simply called a pass play on those downs that screwed Weeden over, it's that they took the only player that could fight for the 1 yard rush off the field and prohibited Weeden from even having the possibility of calling a sensible run audible. Thus allowing the Giants to fully prepare against the obvious pass play.

Weeden is failing because of the obvious play-calling of non-stop passing to inexperienced/untalented recievers.

[browniebuck]

Brandon Weeden, while he hasn't been great by any means, he hasn't been terrible. The main issue that he faces is that instead of taking a slow, or even slightly moderate, approach to the passing game for their rookie quarterback, The Browns coaching staff has had Weeden attempt 202 passes already this year. That's 5th most in the League!!!!! AND furthermore the receivers he's forced to throw it to are some of the least experienced/talented out of any receiving corps in the league. Meanwhile Trent Richardson is currently 17th in rushing attempts per game and the Browns as a whole are 30th in attempts per game. I under stand that he's older and that they may be trying to throw him into the deep end to see what he can do, but they have to balance the run game in there too for any passing game to be effective. We aren't getting a good gauge of his abilities because teams are always expecting him to throw the ball and the coaches continue to tell him to, there is no element of surprise to our gameplan thus making it impossible for Weeden to succeed.

Look no further than the fact that during the Giants game, twice on the same drive on 3rd down and 1, the #3 overall pick and runningback of the future, Trent Richardson, wasn't just not given the ball in favor of a passing play, but he was taken off the field completely so that Chris "I only come in on passing plays" Ogbonnaya could come in. (He has 2 rushes and 9 receptions this season) This left the Giants absolutely no need to look for the run on the play. Its not the fact that they simply called a pass play on those downs that screwed Weeden over, it's that they took the only player that could fight for the 1 yard rush off the field and prohibited Weeden from even having the possibility of calling a sensible run audible. Thus allowing the Giants to fully prepare against the obvious pass play.

Weeden is failing because of the obvious play-calling of non-stop passing to inexperienced/untalented recievers.

I get what you are saying...but they HAVE to pass the football when they are down in the 2nd half to conserve time...especially when they are willing to take field goals rather than going for touchdowns. It takes more than 2 field goals to make up for each touchdown that they are down...but, for some reason Pat Shurmur is fine with taking field goals in the 2nd half of football games rather than trying to show this football team that sucking isn't acceptable.

Trent Richardson had another good game yesterday...but it was mostly done in the 1st half, while they were in contention. He is going to be a great back in this league....especially once they get a freaking coaching staff in here that has some passion and is willing to take some chances to get this thing turned around!

I think he found some candy in the first half (Osi Umenyiora...sure he won't retract his stupid comment or admit that T-Rich has some skill)...and, I'm pretty sure he just grabbed it and ran!

[ottograham14]

I like it. If Gruden was the choice it wouldn't be a complete change in philosophy on either side of the ball. He's a West Coast Offense guy and his teams in Tampa Bay were 4-3, cover 2 defenses. Not too sure how excited he would be to be in the same division as his brother though...

I would love if they would bring in Chucky and then Jay as the OC/HC in waiting. Tell Jon he can have the team for 3-4 years to build some credibility back up and then he can go back to his ESPN job which he seems to like after that and Jay can take over. You can tell that Chucky wants to coach again it just doesn't seem like he wants to coach for that long. They can maintain the WC philosphy but bring their own ingredients to it kind of like McCarthy does in GB. Also would love to see Jauron stay too as when Chucky took over TB he did let Kiffin stay and maintain the D that he was bulding there so maybe they could do that here too. Just some ideas. I mentioned Jay as a HC candidate last week and Kosar I think you were right, they do need to bring in an established HC right now IMO but it would be nice maybe to get one and a future option at the same time. A lot of bringing Jon in though would be how much power he wants. If he wants to just be the HC then that would be great but I would have a tough time if he wanted to run the player personel side too like he did in TB.

[ottograham14]

Browns CB Dimitri Patterson is on crutches and out "a couple of weeks" with a left ankle sprain.
It means more Buster Skrine, which in turn means more fun for enemy aerial attacks. Patterson plays outside in Cleveland's base defense and slides to the slot in nickel formations. The Browns will have to lean on Joe Haden even more.

Browns CB Joe Haden's four-game suspension for violating the league's policy on performance-enhancing substances is through.
It's not a moment too soon for the Browns, who went 0-4 during Haden's absence and allowed a 10:3 opposing TD:INT ratio. Enemy passers averaged 285.3 yards. That's despite the fact that two of the opposing quarterbacks were Ryan Fitzpatrick and Andy Dalton. Every opponent's No. 1 receiver found the end zone at least once. A shutdown corner, Haden's return will have a major impact.

http://www.rotoworld.com/playernews/...ll-player-news

If the FO does not take a look at other teams Practice Squads or available corner FA's then I am going to lose it. Its not that Skrine is awful but he cannot play on the outside and with Patterson being out multiple weeks they cannot just depend on Haden, Brown, Skrine and Wade or the secondary is going to continue to be awful even with Haden back as we don't know what type of game shape he is in yet but they did mention in one piece that he has been working out in DC.

[clevelandspride]

why would you want jaron as hc our defense sucks look at the yardage giving up! we were lucky philly turned it ove r we werent in the buffalo game if spiller doent get hurt. cincy scored how much? the giants did what ever they wanted... everyone needs to go no recievers on this team! if there are they r not being coached right . not getting julio jones hurts. mccoy hardesty marisic little skrine trading for slow fujita gokong sucks

[Vee-Rex]

I have no idea how anyone can say that with a straight face. You say in one sentence that they had the talent to win 8 or 9 games this year and in the very next saying that management will bring them down to 2. So how does management do that when they were the ones who obtained the talent to win your so called 8 or 9 games?

I will say that I do believe that the Shurmur needs to go during the bye week and Holmgren will probably be with him where they need to promote Jauron on an interim basis as the players do seem to play hard on the defensive side for him while promoting Chilly to play calling duties in the second half and hopefully he can get more creative with the young, green and very raw talent on the offensive side especially with the playmakers that Shurmur couldn't get. Also Shurmur wasn't ran out of St. Louis but was taken away from St. Louis by Cleveland. He actually had that offense playing well and that was with a rookie QB and Mark Clayton as thier best WR and a pourous O-Line, I live in St. Louis and went to four games that year in 2009 where they should have won the West even though the West was pretty bad but it was a significant jump from the year before for St. Louis' offense. Also St. Louis still says that he was the best OC the Rams have had in the past 5 years as he was smart enough in how to work with Bradford his rookie year where McDaniels and Schotty are terrible after him. I think a lot of his play calling has to do with him not trusting his players (cough cough Little), doing too much where he is confused at times, being very vanilla with his play calling because he is now the head guy and very worried about doing something really dumb out there. I do belive he is very ignorant as well as most can see from his stupid answers during interviews and Pre and Post games.

So I agree with some of your assessment where I believe most will go and I am starting to think Heckert will go as well. If anyone stays I can see it being Jauron and thats a big IF.

Are you serious? You're honestly giving Shurmur a lot of credit for the Rams 7-9 W/L 2010 season? LOL.

Shurmur just HAPPENED to be the OC at the time. First of all, the credit goes to Steven Jackson for having a great healthy year. Secondly, the credit goes to Sam Bradford for a stellar rookie season.

The Rams were never the 1-15 team that they were in 2009: that was a result of injuries to Marc Bulger. Kyle Boller stepped in (and man did he suck) and got injured TOO.

So they flipped from 1-15 to 7-9, mainly because they got a QB who is decent and stayed healthy. Shurmur was as vanilla as he is now.

The Rams organizations said their farewells but everyone knew the fans and players alike didn't care for Shurmur at all. Heck, even ESPN put forth a bunch of clips showing how much Shurmur stunk. I guarantee just about any offensive coordinator would have given the Rams 7 wins in 2010, maybe more.

Shurmur was chosen because Holmgren wanted a puppet he could use while he makes his 'executive decisions' as team president, and because Shurmur was in that Holmgren/Andy Reid/Eagles coaching tree (even though he was at the bottom).

So maybe he wasn't ran out of St Louis like Butch Davis was ran out of Cleveland but you definitely can't give him hardly any credit for that Rams turnaround season unless you really don't know how terrible this dude is.

Also, yes. Coaching/management cost us 8-9 games.

Coaching: No discipline. Penalties returned as soon as Mangini was canned.
No fire: The players follow the coach, if Shurmur can't even throw down his headset, start yelling, stomp his foot, or even frown when the Browns make stupid plays then the players won't have that kind of fire too.

Why do the Ravens and Steelers continue to have good defenses despite getting older? Passion, fire, and energy.

Terrible playcalling. Terrible decision making with timeouts and in-game decisions. Terrible depth chart with keeping Marecic as the FB. You can't tell me that coaching alone can't be the difference between 2 and 8 games, you can't.

This West-Coast system just isn't a good fit either, but that's my opinion.

The Browns could've been 4-1 right now, maybe 5-0. I bet they would be 3-2 if it wasn't for stupid plays that Shurmur called, not to mention with a little more luck on their side.

Management: I'm not saying the management over the past few years have been bad. No, we've picked up great talent. But what harm is there in going after a WR? The country, the world, the aliens in outer space: all knew we had a terrible receiving core, yet the management didn't try hard to go after a good receiver?

Our cornerbacks suck. Joe Haden is returning against the Bengals. Why haven't the Browns signed SOMEBODY?

We already have five winnable games, you can't tell me with better coaching and management that we wouldn't have been able to have a shot at 8. And yes, I'm saying it with a straight face.

Edit: I would rather Chilly be our interim head coach instead of Jauron, but it won't matter anyway since Haslam will wait until the end of the season.

I want to see the end product of Weeden, but so far I think he might turn out ok.

[kosar4president]

Take this as you wish, last year everyone was talking about how Newton was on pace to break the all time rookkie passing record. I remember hearing it every week. Well, Weeden is on pace to break Newtons rookie record for passing yards. This is with the 10 or so drops this year. weeden is for real guys. I don't care if he is 28. He is doing with with inexperienced receivers. I surely hope that we do not draft a QB in the first round next year. I really like Amerson out of NC and Mingo out of LSU. Just saying.

[Vee-Rex]

Take this as you wish, last year everyone was talking about how Newton was on pace to break the all time rookkie passing record. I remember hearing it every week. Well, Weeden is on pace to break Newtons rookie record for passing yards. This is with the 10 or so drops this year. weeden is for real guys. I don't care if he is 28. He is doing with with inexperienced receivers. I surely hope that we do not draft a QB in the first round next year. I really like Amerson out of NC and Mingo out of LSU. Just saying.

His progress is very impressive. He will make his rookie mistakes, so we'll have to bear with it (unlike Shurmur who can't seem to understand this).

Can't say he'll be an elite yet but I do think if he continues to get better he'll be a starter for quite some years. I don't care if he's 28 either, so I'm with you on that too.

[billyclubdude]

Call it a homer pick but I would rather see them trade down and pick up a #2 pick, go for a wr, cb, then de. I say homer pick cause I would love to see John Simon in Cle. He reminds me a lil bit like JJ Watt. He has a motor that just doesn't stop. Could easily be a team leader

[JackAttackJack]

I decided to look up what you said about the rookie passing record and it is for real true. What is also true is that Ryan Tannehill is also on pace to have more passing yards than Cam Newton's rookie campaign.

Brandon Weeden is nowhere near the problem for the Browns. Trent is a beast, and Weeden has time to throw. It is the overrated defense and play calling, IMO.

[ottograham14]

Mohamed Massaquoi (hamstring) and Travis Benjamin (hamstring) remained out of Browns practice Wednesday.
Massaquoi has missed two straight games, while Benjamin hasn't practiced since going down near the end of Cleveland's Week 4 loss to the Ravens. Neither player should be considered likely to suit up against the Bengals.

According to FOX 8 Sports in Cleveland, WR Jordan Norwood has a sprained foot and is in a walking boot.
Browns coach Pat Shurmur was very coy when asked about Norwood on Wednesday, refusing to even acknowledge that his slot receiver is injured. If this report turns out true, Norwood is facing a multi-week absence.

http://www.rotoworld.com/playernews/...l-player-news/

Oh Shurmur playing with the media again. Either way if Norwood/MoMass and Benjamin are all out against the Bungals then that is going to hurt. Maybe finally they will be forced to activate Cooper from the PS. They did just re-sign Rod Windsor though so look out for that. Hopefully Coop can play some slot if they do activate him and they can get Cribbs involved. Or possibly a crazy idea would be pounding Richardson 25 times this game. Who knows though?

[ottograham14]

Browns TE Alex Smith (concussion) has resumed practicing.
Smith missed three games. A blocking specialist, Smith is miles from fantasy relevance.

http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/nfl/cle/cleveland-browns

Cameron can go to more of an outside role now and they can line up Watson and Smith on the line. Glad with Smith out at least that Schwartz has been able to hold his ground against some good DE's. Really excited about him and think once he gets more technique down he is going to be a steal.

[ottograham14]

Saw this on another forum and thought it was pretty interesting.

Weeden’s 9 Interceptions (I think they are all in the right order)

Pick 1 vs Eagles: Richardson (blocked his man, rushing in on the blitz, sideline throw to Benjamin with Cromartie covering him)

Pick 2 vs Eagles: Brandon Jackson

Pick 3 vs Eagles: Marecic & Brandon Jackson

Pick 4 vs Eagles: Brandon Jackson

Pick 1 vs Bills: Ogbonnaya

Pick 2 vs Bills: Ogbonnaya

Pick vs Ravens (Pick 6): Ogbonnaya

Pick vs Giants on 3rd & 1: Ogbonnaya

Pick vs Giants in End Zone: Looks like it could be either Ogbonnaya or Richardson, but I’m not 100% sure, see photo:





In conclusion, Weeden has thrown 9 interceptions, at least 7 of which came when Richardson was not on the field. That’s pretty interesting, even if 3rd down is usually when Jackson/Oggie are in, and picks are more likely on 3rd down. Even more interesting is that the one he was on the field for against the Eagles was just an awful play call, trying to hit Benjamin along the sideline while he was matched up with Cromartie who is way taller than him.



This plays into the whole “did Shurmur tip off the Giants D by putting Oggie into the game on 3-and-1?” scenario. The defense no longer has to respect the run because they know Ogbonnaya is only there to catch. He has what, two rushes for the year?