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  1. #1
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    McIntyre: Trading Ryan Kesler would transform Canucks

    Iain McIntyre, one of the best and fairest Canucks observers finally picks up on the idea. We've seen for several seasons now how effective Kesler can be in so many ways but how lacking he is as a playmaker and honestly, as a reliable scorer, especially in the playoffs. McIntyre points out that Kelser has exactly 10 goals in 53 playoff games, not such a small sample size any more, and 5 of those goals came in one series against Nashville last year.

    You have to give up something to get something. And this team is completely stagnant, has been for a long time. Kesler is an awesome defensive C but we need more than that.

    Problem is, it seems that Gillis is afraid to make any move that isn't a reclamation moneyball move.

    ... trading their core player is not as unthinkable as it once seemed, given the season Kesler had, a no-trade clause in his contract that kicks in before next season, and the potential benefits to the Canucks of a multi-player windfall and the renewal of their image.

    That is already underway with the seismic shift in the goal crease, as longtime incumbent Roberto Luongo unselfishly declared Tuesday he won't stand in the way of the Canucks' promoting backup Cory Schneider. Even halfway through this season, the idea of trading Luongo and keeping Schneider was outrageous.

    The Philadelphia Flyers stunned the National Hockey League last June when they traded thought-to-be-untouchable captain Mike Richards to the Los Angeles Kings for Brayden Schenn and Wayne Simmonds.

    Then Simmonds outscored Richards this season while the 20-year-old Schenn has done nothing to dissuade believers that he, too, will become an impact centre in the NHL. To be fair, it hasn't worked out so badly for Richards, either, despite his meagre first year in Los Angeles, where the Kings are so smitten with him they can't wait to dump Dustin Brown and make the ex-Flyer captain.
    ... his quiet series against the Kings did little to spruce up a playoff resume that shows just 10 goals in 53 games. Half of those came in a five-day span during Kesler's spectacular second-round playoff series last year against the Nashville Predators.

    General manager Mike Gillis, exasperated by the Canucks' reputation for diving and whining, may well consider Kesler's playoff returns when he decides how best to change his team.

    Luongo and Kesler have been cornerstones so long, trading those two alone would transform the Canucks.
    http://www.canada.com/sports/Trading...515/story.html

  2. #2
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    I think building a team based around "playoff performers" is pretty stupid. You put the best team you can on the ice and hope they can perform in the playoffs.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by carson005 View Post
    I think building a team based around "playoff performers" is pretty stupid. You put the best team you can on the ice and hope they can perform in the playoffs.
    Those two things are one and the same. And I agree, you put the best team on the ice and see how they do. McIntyre is realizing that the best asset to do that with is Kesler. It could and would change the culture of the team. And not the way some Kesler fans might think. I know the common wisdom is that Kesler is the heart and soul of this team. Well that may be. But isn't the heart and soul of this team exactly what people find so annoying across the country? The diving and the trash talking is despised by other players across the league. All that aside, you give up something to get something and you work your best assets to your advantage. And that doesn't mean trading away the goalie that performs best under pressure. Schneider is rising, Kesler is falling in terms of on-ice performance value. Some might even say that Kesler had a brief peak window (One Olympic tournament and a 5 day superstar peak against Nashville last year) and now he is back to being a very good player but potentially not as good as the value we could get in return. Remember there are lots of people who still think a lot of Kesler. As McIntyre says, one move could re-stock the franchise to a degree.

    Another baseball analogy here, sorry: look up the trade that MADE the Toronto Blue Jays world champs. They gave up OUTSTANDING quality in Fernandez and McGriff in order to land Carter and Alomar and that was the move that turned the Jays from perennial division champs into world champs.

  4. #4
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    I would love to get a young up and coming center for Kesler who fits our team better. Someone like a Matt Duchene type of player (though Colorado wouldn't do it I bet) would be a good fit for us.
    TAKE PRIDE

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    Somebody proposed Edler/Kesler for Crosby somewhere considering Malkin players better when Crosby's out would that trade work?

    For the Penguins Malkin would centre the #1 line with Kesler on wing and Staal would get more min at the 2 hole. Edler would solidify there defense even more.

    For the Canucks Crosby could centre Booth and Higgins and turn that line into a legitamite scoring line.

    A hockey trade that works for both teams. However that being said I know it doesn't happen but talent wise seems even. What we need is a play maker centre to play with Booth and Higgins.

  6. #6
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    McIntyre: Trading Ryan Kesler would transform Canucks

    Sign me up. Dale Weise would be a 35 goal scorer beside Crosby.

    But it doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of happening.

  7. #7
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    I won't ever back down from a "NO" to every conceivable sense in trading Kesler. Where Carson has his area of "no" to anything involving Luongo that's where I run with Ryan Kesler. You don't grow Ryan Keslers on trees. His out put took a dive after a serious injury. Does that mean he cannot replay the 10-11 season. It means nothing. Unless you can guarantee me a cup with a replacement player, I say "HELL NO", every time 10 out of 10 times. I would trade any other player on the roster say the Sedins and Edler before Kesler. It's bad enough they already moved Cody Hodgson. I guess I would have to get used to it like I did when Mike Richards was traded, but I did feel gutted. Schenn, Voracek, Couturier, Simmonds has lessoned that pretty well....but who knows if a center in the first round is even comparable to Couturier. From all accounts not likely.
    Last edited by GrkGawdofWalkz; 04-28-2012 at 11:26 AM.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrkGawdofWalkz View Post
    I won't ever back down from a "NO" to every conceivable sense in trading Kesler. Where Carson has his area of "no" to anything involving Luongo that's where I run with Ryan Kesler. You don't grow Ryan Keslers on trees. His out put took a dive after a serious injury. Does that mean he cannot replay the 10-11 season. It means nothing. Unless you can guarantee me a cup with a replacement player, I say "HELL NO", every time 10 out of 10 times. I would trade any other player on the roster say the Sedins and Edler before Kesler. It's bad enough they already moved Cody Hodgson. I guess I would have to get used to it like I did when Mike Richards was traded, but I did feel gutted. Schenn, Voracek, Couturier, Simmonds has lessoned that pretty well....but who knows if a center in the first round is even comparable to Couturier. From all accounts not likely.
    I really disagree. I think Philly was brilliant in identifying that Richards was not quite what they thought he was and that he wasn't going to get the team to where they wanted to go. That's how I feel about Kesler. The 41 goal season was the aberration. IMHO when you get right down to it the argument FOR Kesler amounts to intangibles, he's the "type" of player that doesn't grow on trees. I actually think that "type" of player is easier to replace than a truly skilled player, hence my long-standing feeling that he is severely over-rated and will never really produce on a consistent basis, though he has FLASHES of brilliance. We need more. Question is: will Gillis be as smart as Holmgren and do something about it? Besides, I'm not just saying to imitate the success of the Flyers; I've been wanting to move Kesler for years since I don't buy into the intangibles argument in Kesler's case. With a Jonathon Toews or a Pavel Datsyuk I buy into the intangibles argument, but Kesler is not NEARLY as skilled as those two.

    A thought I had the other day while driving home from work: everyone talks about this team as a "skilled" team. Really? Then in something as obviously skill-based as shootouts, why do we have so few legitimate threats? I seriously don't get the line about this team being skills based. Isn't scoring the most useful and valuable skill???????? Who is a great passer other than the Sedins? Sure, it's great to have speed on the team, but what if all they can do is skate (and some, like Raymond, can't even do that without falling down every shift)? Funny thing is that of the most effective offensive players for us this year -- the Sedins and Hodgson -- none of them are particularly great skaters. We seriously over-rate the skill on this team, and it starts with Kesler.

    Only when Gillis takes sentiment out of the equation about his team will he improve it. He needs to look hard at the game he SAYS he wants the team to play and the players he has provided the coach with, and determine if they have the skills needed. I expect him to delude himself as long as he's GM here because there's a pattern of wishful thinking that pervades so many of his moves.
    Last edited by ink; 04-28-2012 at 03:41 PM.

  9. #9
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    The only thing holm green had going for him is Claude giroux. We don't have a center waiting to take over.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pfeifer View Post
    The only thing holm green had going for him is Claude giroux. We don't have a center waiting to take over.
    I agree that made the decision easier, but he also had the sense to trade over-rated players or at least under-producing players. Guaranteed that there will not be a Cup in Vancouver until we get legit scoring/secondary options.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    I agree that made the decision easier, but he also had the sense to trade over-rated players or at least under-producing players. Guaranteed that there will not be a Cup in Vancouver until we get legit scoring/secondary options.
    Considering how critical you have been of Gillis, where exactly do you get the confidence that he would get us enough pieces in a Kesler trade to win us a cup?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by carson005 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    I agree that made the decision easier, but he also had the sense to trade over-rated players or at least under-producing players. Guaranteed that there will not be a Cup in Vancouver until we get legit scoring/secondary options.
    Considering how critical you have been of Gillis, where exactly do you get the confidence that he would get us enough pieces in a Kesler trade to win us a cup?
    It's his job. Not all of his deals have been bad at all but he had a pretty lousy year this year. And he has never made a significant, culture-changing move. It's time.

  13. #13
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    I think we need a real sniper to play with the Sedins and a top end defenseman. I just don't know if I want to give up a two way center on the second line. I really think we have to package Luongo with a defenseman and our first round pick for a star forward and something else significant for the second line. I don't have a clue where we are going to get the top level defenseman though. We have too many "good" defensmen and no #1.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    I really disagree. I think Philly was brilliant in identifying that Richards was not quite what they thought he was and that he wasn't going to get the team to where they wanted to go. That's how I feel about Kesler. The 41 goal season was the aberration. IMHO when you get right down to it the argument FOR Kesler amounts to intangibles, he's the "type" of player that doesn't grow on trees. I actually think that "type" of player is easier to replace than a truly skilled player, hence my long-standing feeling that he is severely over-rated and will never really produce on a consistent basis, though he has FLASHES of brilliance. We need more. Question is: will Gillis be as smart as Holmgren and do something about it? Besides, I'm not just saying to imitate the success of the Flyers; I've been wanting to move Kesler for years since I don't buy into the intangibles argument in Kesler's case. With a Jonathon Toews or a Pavel Datsyuk I buy into the intangibles argument, but Kesler is not NEARLY as skilled as those two.

    A thought I had the other day while driving home from work: everyone talks about this team as a "skilled" team. Really? Then in something as obviously skill-based as shootouts, why do we have so few legitimate threats? I seriously don't get the line about this team being skills based. Isn't scoring the most useful and valuable skill???????? Who is a great passer other than the Sedins? Sure, it's great to have speed on the team, but what if all they can do is skate (and some, like Raymond, can't even do that without falling down every shift)? Funny thing is that of the most effective offensive players for us this year -- the Sedins and Hodgson -- none of them are particularly great skaters. We seriously over-rate the skill on this team, and it starts with Kesler.

    Only when Gillis takes sentiment out of the equation about his team will he improve it. He needs to look hard at the game he SAYS he wants the team to play and the players he has provided the coach with, and determine if they have the skills needed. I expect him to delude himself as long as he's GM here because there's a pattern of wishful thinking that pervades so many of his moves.
    Yeah and I like the Flyers moves in hindsight. However, it still doesn't change that I would be upset over losing Ryan Kesler. Anyone who wouldn't is insane. I get that it may improve the team, but what if it changes. Trades don't always improve a team when trading a franchise type player.

    Rachel Zane: You're a sneaky little boy.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrkGawdofWalkz View Post
    Yeah and I like the Flyers moves in hindsight. However, it still doesn't change that I would be upset over losing Ryan Kesler. Anyone who wouldn't is insane. I get that it may improve the team, but what if it changes. Trades don't always improve a team when trading a franchise type player.
    What exactly does Kesler offer and how effective is it over an 82 game season and each round of the playoffs? I agree that Kesler was superman against Nashville, but how often is he that player? Why don't any linemates ever work with the guy? Why can't he play on the wing if he's not a playmaker and doesn't work well with his teammates? Most of all, he lacks self-discipline, always trash-talking and diving when that should be beneath a player of his calibre. I'm sorry but we can't call Kesler a "tough" player after that dive he pulled against Mitchell in the Kings series. That was cheap. He needs to take a look around the league at the true tough players and take a page out of their books. And no, I don't care if he silently plays through injuries. As a good teammate he should not be playing hero. If he's injured past the point of effectiveness he should be giving his spot to someone healthy. It takes a pretty big ego to play at less than half capacity and suggest that's better than another professional hockey player. Even at his very best, which is hard to sustain physically, he is not that good. Few players are.

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