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Thread: Over Managing

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Over Managing

    I know Bochy's managing got us a world series win...but sometimes I think he tries too hard....

    For instance, why on Earth is Nate not an every day starter in the outfield? Pill failing to bring the runner on third with less than two outs in two different innings was brutal, but why was he starting in the outfield instead of Nate anyway?

    Secondly, what was with Matt Cain pinch hitting? I know Bochy wanted someone that batted from the right side....but if that someone is Matt Cain is it really worth putting him out there and not a position player that is actually used to hitting, even if it's from the left side? I'd rather have Huff hit from the left than Cain hit from the right in that situation. Can you imagine if Cain hurt himself pinch hitting for Zito?

    Throwing your ace out there to pinch hit with nobody on and two outs is a bad idea even if he can hit. Last I checked, Matt Cain can't hit. RIDICULOUS. I'm just glad he didn't hurt himself. What did Bochy expect?

    Also, it worked out in the end...but I didn't understand sitting Posey. I mean, I understand having Belt come in to take over at first when the giants are ahead late in a game since he's a good defensive player...but common sense says Posey would take over for Sanchez at catcher. Especially since Zito was long done. Lopez's balls getting past Sanchez in the 9th almost cost the Giants the game. What's the deal with sitting your best player in a close ball game?

    Bochy gets away with a lot of weird stuff because we have a good team. Playing musical chairs in the outfield when he has 3 good options in melky, angel, and nate doesn't make sense.
    Sending his ace out (who can't hit anyway) to pinch hit doesn't make sense.
    Sitting his best player, someone who's an upgrade both offensively and defensively to the catcher that's currently in the game doesn't make sense.
    I like how Bochy handles the bullpen for the most part, but some other decisions are just head scratchers and some are just plain bad. DONT HAVE YOUR STARTERS PINCH HIT BOCHY!!! I DON'T CARE IF HE'S THE ONLY RIGHTY ON BENCH, SEND A LEFTY OUT THAT CAN HIT.
    Last edited by mw129; 04-21-2012 at 03:05 AM.

  2. #2
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    your rant is pretty spot on.

    pill<belt

    casilla=closer

    pitchers dont = hitters

    pretty much sums it up for me

    props to sfgiants5518 for the sports userbar.props to vick for other user bar.

  3. #3
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    gotta remember with posey though bro he is coming off season ending knee surgery so not really a bad idea to rest him a little when you can

    props to sfgiants5518 for the sports userbar.props to vick for other user bar.

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    Very nice post.

    I normally cut Bochy a lot of slack once the line up is in because he comes up with a plan and doggedly sees it though in a systematic fashion. It may not work, but it usually makes some sense. I might not always like it, but I get it.

    Last night's game was, however, a real head scratcher. From line up to substitutions, it seemed like he was simply throwing stuff against the wall to see what would stick.

    The double switch that brought Huff into the game really blew my mind. Nate's on one of his hot streaks and is likely our best defensive OF and you yank him for Huff? That decision went entirely against the grain of the game he'd previously been willy nilly managing.

    Last, I don't want to make too much of Zito's hot start, we've seen this before. But why debut Pill in left on a Zito start? You're basically telling him his starts aren't important. Sure, he'll flame out in June, but it struck me as particularly crass on Bochy's part. Every win that you can get out of Zito when he's hot is a win you don't have to gut out down the stretch, so give him the best lineup you can reasonably muster and take those wins while you can get them.

  5. #5
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    I'm wondering why Cain was selected to hit over Bumgarner.
    "It's already over. All hopes aside and being only realistic. The Giants won't make the post season with the Dodgers and the Rockies in the same division."
    -rarryronds (06/03/2010 - on the Giants 2010 season)

    "Stephen Curry is not a point guard"
    -asandhu23 (May 5, 2011)

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    Quote Originally Posted by robnen#31 View Post
    I'm wondering why Cain was selected to hit over Bumgarner.
    Veteran status, sir.

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    Haha, well when it's all said and done, it's a win. So I can't complain too much. It just seemed like it was a heck of a lot more complicated than it had to be.

    I know a lot of you guys are pulling for Belt to be the every day starter at 1b, but I'm more shocked Nate isn't the every day starter in RF. Melky in left, pagan in center, and nate at rf seems like it should be a no brainer.

    Nate's got a rocket for an arm, has good speed, and it's not like he's outclassed offensively by huff, pill, or belt (the guys taking away his playing time).

    Also ^lol robnen, I know Bumgarner is country strong but I cannot see any time, in April no less, where using a starting pitcher to pinch hit makes the risk worth the reward. There is too much that can happen in one funky swing of the bat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mw129 View Post
    Also ^lol robnen, I know Bumgarner is country strong but I cannot see any time, in April no less, where using a starting pitcher to pinch hit makes the risk worth the reward. There is too much that can happen in one funky swing of the bat.
    Oh I agree completely about the risk, I'm just saying if you're going to throw a pitcher out there to hit I don't see how Cain is getting picked over Bumgarner.
    "It's already over. All hopes aside and being only realistic. The Giants won't make the post season with the Dodgers and the Rockies in the same division."
    -rarryronds (06/03/2010 - on the Giants 2010 season)

    "Stephen Curry is not a point guard"
    -asandhu23 (May 5, 2011)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mw129 View Post

    I know a lot of you guys are pulling for Belt to be the every day starter at 1b, but I'm more shocked Nate isn't the every day starter in RF. Melky in left, pagan in center, and nate at rf seems like it should be a no brainer.
    I'm the same way. I've tried to keep my nose clean in that fiasco, and like you, have been focused on Nate. It seems once you commit to a starting RF the whole line up makes a lot more sense. Moreover, if you pencil Nate in as a starter and give him a month you'll soon figure out if he really is a streak hitter. While doing that, you'll have ample opportunity to figure out who's the better bet at 1b.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cangrejo View Post
    I'm the same way. I've tried to keep my nose clean in that fiasco, and like you, have been focused on Nate. It seems once you commit to a starting RF the whole line up makes a lot more sense. Moreover, if you pencil Nate in as a starter and give him a month you'll soon figure out if he really is a streak hitter. While doing that, you'll have ample opportunity to figure out who's the better bet at 1b.
    Sometimes I wonder if Nate is just regarded as streaky because the lack of playing time makes him cold. I don't know the guy so I can't say for sure, but I know if I was in his position I wouldn't be too comfortable or confident and thinking "crap...if I don't get a hit now I won't start for a week!" every at bat certainly can't help.

    Nate has had some really good games then hasn't started the next one. So he has to be thinking "What do I have to do around here?"

    If he has one bad game Bochy will think he's cold then play the "hot handed" .200 huff or belt in left field without even giving .300 nate a chance to rebound.

    Fun activity: name the outfielder with the 4th best batting average on the team with tons of speed, a cannon arm, and doesn't start. he also has 2 home runs, 6 rbis, and only has 1 strikeout in 30 at bats.

    I'm not basing this solely on batting averages, I know they don't mean a whole lot this early in the year, but I don't know how Bochy can prefer Pill, Belt, or Huff in left field over Nate in right. It definitely makes no sense defensively, and it's not like any of those guys are that great offensively, so I just don't get it. They're even starting off much slower than Nate and I thought Bochy would play the "hot hand?" I'm almost starting to think Bochy has some weird personal grudge.

    Let Belt and Pill split time at first til one of them separates themselves from the other and Huff can pinch hit, give someone a night off here and there in the outfield or at first, and have fun being a club house leader.
    Last edited by mw129; 04-21-2012 at 04:57 AM.

  11. #11
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    MW,

    I think you're dead right about the playing time issue. Nate is always getting his chain yanked.

    But that's a Bochy line up thing. He's too clever by half and he's the sort of guy that gets ripped off at the Mother's Day buffet. He likes to sample a little bit of this and nibble some of that, rather than laying waste to the crab and oysters.

    The upshot of this is that he doesn't learn a whole lot about his team and he pisses away a lot of games early while messing with success. Eventually he settles on a line up after the All Star Break, but by then he's developed a line up that is best at dealing with chaos, and we hit our typical July slump because they start pressing. Then he goes back to messing around.

    I admire the way he manages games. For the most part, he's great at that and last night was an aberration. But like you, I wish he'd start paying more attention to the crabs and oysters in our line up.

    Nate needs to be playing a lot more.
    Last edited by Cangrejo; 04-21-2012 at 05:30 AM.

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    Pill's going to get plenty of starts vs lefties, i'd get used to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robnen#31 View Post
    Oh I agree completely about the risk, I'm just saying if you're going to throw a pitcher out there to hit I don't see how Cain is getting picked over Bumgarner.
    It was either going to be Cain or Vogelsong. Bochy wanted a right handed hitter. That was literally the deciding factor.

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    A lot of what you say is accurate in terms of the OF rotation. I'm not gonna get on Bochy for pinch hitting with Cain last night. Bench was already short handed with no Theriot on the trip. They started the night with Nate, Belt, Huff, and Blanco off the bench. Nate had already entered the game on defense, so no sense to use one of your 3 remaining guys for a 2 out no base runner situation in the top of the 6th inning.

    I actually thought Bochy had one of his better games last night. Say what you want about the closer situation, but I don't care what 3 left handers are coming up, I want Lopez in to face them (especially with the tying run already on base). Right decision, bad result. Bringing Huff into the game for Nate was not an indictment on Nate or validation of Huff's defense. It was the last tactical move he had left to make. Mets had a really good chance at scoring when Hensley came in (runners and 1st and 2nd with 0 outs and then 2nd and 3rd with 1 out). If Bochy doesn't double switch there and leaves Nate in, and Hensely gives up just 1 run for more extras. Then Hensely's spot is due up 2nd, with only Otero left behind him in the pen. Choices are either let Hensely hit or pinch hit for him and have Otero go a few innings. It was a good decision to cover themselves and the only reason it was Nate who came out was becaues Huff was the only guy left on the bench.
    Last edited by d79cheese; 04-21-2012 at 12:08 PM.


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    I am just sick of bochy whether we are winning or not, he is a joke and needs to be fired and i gurantee we would become a better team. You don't use a closer by committe, that is just stupid. When your closer is in, its always in a pressure situation. You can not play musical chairs and mess with there heads while the game is going on thinking "am i going to close or pitch the 7th or 8th." You have to pick a closer and stay with him at least until he blows some games. He had no right to pull casilla, and what happened? Lopez blew it. Give the job to casilla and ride it out, ****

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