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  1. #1
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    Will Schenn and Couturier be better than Richards and Carter?

    I'd like to think so.
    Don't let this face fool you...

    #28

  2. #2
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    Crap typo on Couturier. Can a mod fix that please?
    Don't let this face fool you...

    #28

  3. #3
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    ... couturier is already better than jeff loaf carter in my opinion, but i'm still a carter hater ...

    as a side note ... carter has 28 points in 49 career playoff games ... couturier has 5 in 2 ... do the math

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammastershake View Post
    I'd like to think so.
    ask question again next year.

    But to look at the question now, Richards seems to have hit his ceiling, and we know exactly who he is and what he can do. Can Schenn equal that right now? No. Does he have the talent and potential to surpass Richards? Absolutely.

    Jeff Carter and Couturier are completely different players obviously. Carter is still a better goal scorer then any current Flyer (sorry but its true), but Couturier is definitely a more complete hockey player already.


  5. #5
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    Couturier is already defensively superior to Carter and I personally don't think it's all that close. Once he develops his offense game It won't even be a question. Richie has hit his peak right now and is solid Schenn isn't at that level yet but like someone else said his ceiling is higher than Richie's so he has the potential to be better. Gotta love Homer. GM of the year if you ask me.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Stevens View Post
    ask question again next year.

    But to look at the question now, Richards seems to have hit his ceiling, and we know exactly who he is and what he can do. Can Schenn equal that right now? No. Does he have the talent and potential to surpass Richards? Absolutely.

    Jeff Carter and Couturier are completely different players obviously. Carter is still a better goal scorer then any current Flyer (sorry but its true), but Couturier is definitely a more complete hockey player already.
    I agree with that as well, however like you said let's look at it now. Carter is a above average player during the year(if he's happy that is) but hasn't gotten it done in the post season. Every time someone talks about the 2010 cup run I can visualize Carter missing that wide open shot in game 6.... I guess my point on Carter is that I disagree with your statement about him. I think that Briere or Giroux COULD be just as good or better in the scoring department. Though if you're saying looking at Carter as just a pure shooter maybe I'd be inclined to agree.

    Richards is exactly what we thought he was. A very very good two way player with pretty good instincts to boot. I'd still want him on my team if we didn't get as much as we did player wise for him.... but he has indeed hit his ceiling.

    all of that being said both Schenn and Couts are both rookies. We've seen flashes of super star potential, but that's just what it is now, just potential. Schenn looks like he's going to be a force on the ice, both offensively and defensively(just look at the way he's flying around the ice. Throwing his body around... reminds me of another #10 the flyers had....), and so does Couts. Oh and I love the fact that Couturier is giving nothing to Malkin for free and taking everything like he owns the rink, all at age 19. Can't remember the last time a player this young looked this good on the flyers.

    Again though, I do agree with you overall. Too early to tell, but the future looks good.

  7. #7
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    I'd say in the end, they equal the value of them, I thnk. Schenn is Richards. Richards is Schenn. I really think at the end of the day, they have nearly identical value. Schenn projects as toughnosed, two way forward, 30 goals, 60-70 points.

    Couturier and Carter are similarly valued player, in my mind, but in different ways. Carter can score 40 goals, hell if he's healthy and his wrister is on, he could threaten 50 once. Couts, will probably top out at 30. And be another 60 point player. Carter is actually a fairly defensively responsible player. Couts has that Datsyukian defensive capability where he's probably going to win a Selke or two in his career. A goal saved is just as good as a goal earned.

    In the end, I think they're probably a wash on value. Where the extra value comes in is that we got Simmonds and Voracek to go along with it.

    I will say, Couturier saved that trading day. Getting, possibly the 2nd best player in the whole draft to slide to us at 8th is why those trades will be a positive. We knew Schenn had Richards qualities. Voracek and Simmonds, while young, we knew what they could become. But it's Couts being there at 8th that made the trade worthwhile. As someone else said: thank the girl who gave him mono.
    Don't give up on us now...


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Henry, House of Burgess, 1775
    Give me the playoffs...or give me death!!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryguy553 View Post
    Couturier is already defensively superior to Carter and I personally don't think it's all that close. Once he develops his offense game It won't even be a question. Richie has hit his peak right now and is solid Schenn isn't at that level yet but like someone else said his ceiling is higher than Richie's so he has the potential to be better. Gotta love Homer. GM of the year if you ask me.
    The problem is that people think Schenn and Couts ceilings are a little TOO high.

    Schenn's ceiling is right on par with Richards. Which is why you read the scouting reports and the name that is nearly, every one is "Mike Richards". Honestly, the people who think his ceiling is higher, are those who are hoping he's better. But realistically, we can't think like that. Richards is about what Schen is LIKELY going to be. Sure, maybe he eclipses it, but the likelihood of that happening is not good enough to really think that it'll happen.

    On Couturier, his offensive game will always be dwarfed by Carter. Hate Carter all you want, he's got 40-50 goal potential in his stick. Couts....never will. He's 60 points. He can develop it to the best of his abilities and I doubt he passes 70 points in his career. But that's not a negative, that's just what he is. He'll eat up too many minutes on the PK and against teams number 1 offensive units to surpass that ever. Carter's defensive lagging behind Couts will always be accompanied by his offensive eclipsing of Couts. Always. And that makes is far less of what you have as "it wont even be a question" and much more of "we'll probably always debate Carter or Couts". Just like Schenn and Richards.

    I think people need to just be a little realistic. I love Schenn. I love Couts. But I think the love of their potential is making some over rate them on what they might become. Rule of thumb on young players: set expectations low, and let them outperform. At this point, people are saying it wont be a question Couts will be better than Carter, who, is a top 20-30 center in the NHL "without question". And that combined will be better than Richards/Carter. If they equal their value, we win. And that's what we should hope for.
    Don't give up on us now...


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Henry, House of Burgess, 1775
    Give me the playoffs...or give me death!!

  9. #9
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    It's Philly...once Schenn and Couts hoist the cup they will automatically be considered 'better'.

    Just because Schenn is compared to Richards does not mean that is his ceiling..Richards rookie year he played in 79 games, had 168 SOG, and scored 11 goals. This season for Schenn he has scored 12 times with 97 SOG in 54 games. The comparison to Richards is cute and all because Richie left in the deal for Schenn, but Schenn has way more upside with the puck.

    Couts, as mentioned above, already is more accountable on D. Carter never looked like he skated hard unless he had a chance to score; he was a scorer because he took so many shots. He only approached 50 goals once and that was during a season that he took 340+ shots. Carter lacked the effort in our zone and lacked creativity or the skill to be dynamic and set up other players. I'd be interested to see how many of his assists as a Flyer were secondary. I'm not going to say Couts will be the scorer that Carter was, but he will be the better hockey player.

    Bottom line, both players are very young and still can add strength and fill out their frame.

    I agree, next season would really be the time to answer this question, but "60% of the time your gut is right all the time".

  10. #10
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    yes.

    my reason: they have the "it" factor

  11. #11
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    Schenn and Couturier are 20 and 19 years old, give em a few years to fully develop then we will know for sure. IMO Couturier is going to be a very very special player in this league, and I think Schenn will be on the same level as Richards

    City of Brotherly Love

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by thPrizedFighter View Post
    It's Philly...once Schenn and Couts hoist the cup they will automatically be considered 'better'.

    Just because Schenn is compared to Richards does not mean that is his ceiling..Richards rookie year he played in 79 games, had 168 SOG, and scored 11 goals. This season for Schenn he has scored 12 times with 97 SOG in 54 games. The comparison to Richards is cute and all because Richie left in the deal for Schenn, but Schenn has way more upside with the puck.

    Couts, as mentioned above, already is more accountable on D. Carter never looked like he skated hard unless he had a chance to score; he was a scorer because he took so many shots. He only approached 50 goals once and that was during a season that he took 340+ shots. Carter lacked the effort in our zone and lacked creativity or the skill to be dynamic and set up other players. I'd be interested to see how many of his assists as a Flyer were secondary. I'm not going to say Couts will be the scorer that Carter was, but he will be the better hockey player.

    Bottom line, both players are very young and still can add strength and fill out their frame.

    I agree, next season would really be the time to answer this question, but "60% of the time your gut is right all the time".
    Totally agree with you on Carter. He shot the puck seemingly at will and I didn't think he was all that accurate. That game 6 sequence where he had a wide open net and missed still haunts me. Cooter also seems like a dynamic 1 on 1 player he has some sick moves when he is in on goal that I just never see from Carter. I love the depth down the middle for the flyers for the foreseeable future.

  13. #13
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    I agree with a lot of what cubs says. The difference is that Carter might score 40 goals if his team is always ahead, Couturier may be more clutch when his team /needs/ goals. I think Cubs and I long ago agreed to disagree on Carter. He likes him, I hate him. I dont think I have ever seen a player as unclutch as Jeff Carter.

    He's got plenty of talent, but when the chips are down, he won't score you a goal.

    The jury is out on Schenn and Couturier. It's way too early in their careers to say if they will be as good as Carter or Richards. I can say that I like what I have seen so far, and I love our team.
    <Meaning and Content>

    ...And did you see that Giroux goal?

  14. #14
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    I'd be happy if Schenn turned out as good as Richards... Some people are really selling Richards short. Guy is one of the better two way centers in the league and a leader on the ice.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Donnie View Post
    I'd be happy if Schenn turned out as good as Richards... Some people are really selling Richards short. Guy is one of the better two way centers in the league and a leader on the ice.
    Agreed. Schenn looks very promising, but he's still got a little ways to go before he's considered in that class. But that's the beauty of the trade because when you add Simmonds to it we get the better of the deal right now and gives us the possibility that Schenn will develop more into a Richards caliber guy.

    Carter has his attributes.....but Voracek and Couts are just built way better to play for this team and this system. To me Homer and Lavi worked very hard to put their heads together and bring in guys that suit what they are trying to do instead of just trying to find the best available players and hope they can do what we need them to.

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