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  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by fly View Post
    i'd be really happy with ross in lf next year.
    +1

  2. #752
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  3. #753
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    It came out yesterday that they don't want to move Myers to get pitching but rather lesser minor league talent to do so.

  4. #754
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    I would build a package around Minor, to possibly include Lipka, Ahmed, Spruill, Jaime, Terdoslavich to send to the Royals for Myers.

    I would also package Gilmartin, Peraza, Cunningham, and the rights to JJ to send to the Pardres for Gyorko.

    Hanson, Martin, and Bethancourt to Tor d'Arnaud

    I want Myers in LF because he is a can't miss stud. I will add anyone the the royals package that is not in competition for the for the 2013 rotation. Gyorko will be sent to AAA and wait to be called upon. I can see him taking over 3B at some point next year when Prado has to take his talents to 2B. d'Arnaud would become the back up starting catcher for the first month of the season and then get sent down to AAA baring any injuries would sit there and take over for McCann next year.

    This is all a pipe dream, please tear the ideas apart. I just feel like these 3 guys are players we need to be better this year and for years to come.
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  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco View Post
    I would build a package around Minor, to possibly include Lipka, Ahmed, Spruill, Jaime, Terdoslavich to send to the Royals for Myers.

    I would also package Gilmartin, Peraza, Cunningham, and the rights to JJ to send to the Pardres for Gyorko.

    Hanson, Martin, and Bethancourt to Tor d'Arnaud

    I want Myers in LF because he is a can't miss stud. I will add anyone the the royals package that is not in competition for the for the 2013 rotation. Gyorko will be sent to AAA and wait to be called upon. I can see him taking over 3B at some point next year when Prado has to take his talents to 2B. d'Arnaud would become the back up starting catcher for the first month of the season and then get sent down to AAA baring any injuries would sit there and take over for McCann next year.

    This is all a pipe dream, please tear the ideas apart. I just feel like these 3 guys are players we need to be better this year and for years to come.
    That wouldn't be enough for Myers. We'd almost definitely have to throw in Bethancourt.

  6. #756
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    Didn't think they would want him because of Perez is locked down. How about adding Salcedo?
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  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly View Post
    I'd be really happy with Ross in LF next year.
    Why? He's had a .758 OPS over the last three years, and the only reason he got over .800 last season is because Fenway is perfectly suited for his power (.921 OPS at home, .684 on the road). Ross is the definition of mediocre, and the Braves can't afford to fill the left field hole with a .750 OPS hitter. They need someone who will comfortably be over .800, who can be plugged into the middle of the lineup. Ross is a great second-division starter or first-division fourth outfielder, but the problem is that he'll command too much money to be a bench player and the Braves aren't trying to be a second-division team.

    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco View Post
    I would build a package around Minor, to possibly include Lipka, Ahmed, Spruill, Jaime, Terdoslavich to send to the Royals for Myers.

    I would also package Gilmartin, Peraza, Cunningham, and the rights to JJ to send to the Pardres for Gyorko.

    Hanson, Martin, and Bethancourt to Tor d'Arnaud
    Unfortunately, you just can't package the organization's scraps into big piles and trade those piles away for valuable players. You've traded away 13 players here for three, and teams don't trade quality for quantity like that. The Myers deal is especially problematic. Myers is one of the most valuable commodities in baseball, as an elite prospect with six years of control remaining. You'd be talking Minor AND one of Teheran or Delgado, PLUS Gilmartin or Spruill and Ahmed.

    Remember: if you currently project as a bench player or a reliever (ahem, Terdoslavich, Cunningham, Jaime) or you are a very risky low-minors player without elite pedigree (ahem, Lipka, Peraza), you have basically zero trade value, except perhaps as a throw-in. And Jurrjens' trade value is negative. Gilmartin isn't enough to headline a deal for Gyorko, and without getting Gyorko, you probably short-circuit the one deal here that might actually work, since without Gyorko, you can't trade Prado in a deal for d'Arnaud.

    Regardless, this is overkill. The Braves have the core to win now. If they put top-flight pieces in left and center field while building a solid bench, they'll be contenders. They don't have to go shifting the whole roster around.

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtgthree View Post
    Unfortunately, you just can't package the organization's scraps into big piles and trade those piles away for valuable players. You've traded away 13 players here for three, and teams don't trade quality for quantity like that. The Myers deal is especially problematic. Myers is one of the most valuable commodities in baseball, as an elite prospect with six years of control remaining. You'd be talking Minor AND one of Teheran or Delgado, PLUS Gilmartin or Spruill and Ahmed.

    Remember: if you currently project as a bench player or a reliever (ahem, Terdoslavich, Cunningham, Jaime) or you are a very risky low-minors player without elite pedigree (ahem, Lipka, Peraza), you have basically zero trade value, except perhaps as a throw-in. And Jurrjens' trade value is negative. Gilmartin isn't enough to headline a deal for Gyorko, and without getting Gyorko, you probably short-circuit the one deal here that might actually work, since without Gyorko, you can't trade Prado in a deal for d'Arnaud.

    Regardless, this is overkill. The Braves have the core to win now. If they put top-flight pieces in left and center field while building a solid bench, they'll be contenders. They don't have to go shifting the whole roster around.
    This packages the Braves overall 2, 4, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 18 prospects as well as 2 solid Pitchers. Is our system that bad that our 45% of our top 20 prosects are scraps? Luike I said in my post, pipe dream. The rights to JJ were so if they wanted an extra arm they could tender him a contract because he isn't going anywhere with us. its not a negative it is a no value added if they cut him as they are on the hook for no money and he is a contact pitcher in a huge park (even though they are moving the fences in, its still a huge park).

    And no where did I say send Prado anywhere. I said he will need to move to 2b.

    We don't have the money to put "top-flight" pieces in Left and Center. We Sign BJ why not trade for a young LF who is cost controled so we can spend the rest of the money getting good bench players, a good vet reliever and extending our young guys.

    My trade senarios we would have locked down C, 1B, SS, 3B, LF, rotation, back end of the BP.

    d'Arnaud is a wild card but I really think we should be calling SD and KC about Myers and Gyorko.
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  9. #759
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    I was thinking the Royals would prob ask for Teheran, Graham and one of Minor/Delgado for Myers. A ton for sure but Myers is an elite talent with tons of control years which we all know wont come cheap. Its a trade I could live with as long as Myers panned out.

  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco View Post
    This packages the Braves overall 2, 4, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 18 prospects as well as 2 solid Pitchers. Is our system that bad that our 45% of our top 20 prosects are scraps?
    First, I'm not sure what prospect list you're using, but I think I'm going to struggle with any ranking that doesn't have Teheran or Graham at #2. If you use John Sickels' 2013 list, you'll notice that three of your ten (Terdoslavich, Jaime and Lipka) don't even rank inside of the top 20.

    Second, yes, the Braves' system is pretty bad these days. Graduation and very conservative drafting have left the system pretty bereft of high-end talent. Lots of depth, but no elite guys.

    Third, in almost any system, at least 50% of the top 20 are scraps. When it comes to making big trades involving high-end talent, anyone outside the top ten is pretty much off the radar screen. So that's not exactly an insult to the Braves.

    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco View Post
    Luike I said in my post, pipe dream.
    Nothing wrong with posting pipe dreams, but when you talk about a pipe dream, you're generally talking about something that could happen, but just wouldn't. This particular pipe dream isn't even possible because I don't think any of those teams would agree to those trades.

    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco View Post
    The rights to JJ were so if they wanted an extra arm they could tender him a contract because he isn't going anywhere with us. its not a negative it is a no value added if they cut him as they are on the hook for no money and he is a contact pitcher in a huge park (even though they are moving the fences in, its still a huge park).
    I don't literally mean he has negative trade value, as in the Braves would have to give up more to get the Padres to take Jurrjens. He just wouldn't be included because no one would care. They know he'll be non-tendered and if they really believe in him, they'll be able to sign him for far less than his arbitration salary.

    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco View Post
    And no where did I say send Prado anywhere. I said he will need to move to 2b.
    My mistake. I suppose you meant Cody Martin, not Martin Prado. Your d'Arnaud proposal still might hold up, but I don't see the Jays trading him in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco View Post
    We don't have the money to put "top-flight" pieces in Left and Center. We Sign BJ why not trade for a young LF who is cost controled so we can spend the rest of the money getting good bench players, a good vet reliever and extending our young guys.
    Sure we do. Say B.J. Upton at $15 million, then Justin Upton, Josh Willingham, Alex Gordon, and Shin-Soo Choo all make less than $7.75 million. That still leaves about $4 million to fill out the roster.

    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco View Post
    My trade senarios we would have locked down C, 1B, SS, 3B, LF, rotation, back end of the BP.
    Sure, but while you're at it, why not lock down center field as well by trading Eric O'Flaherty for Mike Trout?

  11. #761
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    On phone now but I was using MLB.com's prospect list
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  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtgthree View Post
    First, I'm not sure what prospect list you're using, but I think I'm going to struggle with any ranking that doesn't have Teheran or Graham at #2. If you use John Sickels' 2013 list, you'll notice that three of your ten (Terdoslavich, Jaime and Lipka) don't even rank inside of the top 20.
    As I stated I was using MLB's top 20 for the Braves.

    Quote Originally Posted by rtgthree View Post
    Second, yes, the Braves' system is pretty bad these days. Graduation and very conservative drafting have left the system pretty bereft of high-end talent. Lots of depth, but no elite guys.
    Some teams like SD have said they need pitching Depth. We can use that to our advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by rtgthree View Post
    Third, in almost any system, at least 50% of the top 20 are scraps. When it comes to making big trades involving high-end talent, anyone outside the top ten is pretty much off the radar screen. So that's not exactly an insult to the Braves.
    If that is your feeling I can live with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by rtgthree View Post
    I don't literally mean he has negative trade value, as in the Braves would have to give up more to get the Padres to take Jurrjens. He just wouldn't be included because no one would care. They know he'll be non-tendered and if they really believe in him, they'll be able to sign him for far less than his arbitration salary.
    Why would they have to give up more? we would be trading the rights to him. there is no comitment for them to pay him. Its like a dinner mint that you get at olive garden. You can take it and eat it or you can throw it away. There is nothing saying if we trade the rights he they have to offer him a contract. They could non tender him with no cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by rtgthree View Post
    My mistake. I suppose you meant Cody Martin, not Martin Prado. Your d'Arnaud proposal still might hold up, but I don't see the Jays trading him in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by rtgthree View Post
    Sure we do. Say B.J. Upton at $15 million, then Justin Upton, Josh Willingham, Alex Gordon, and Shin-Soo Choo all make less than $7.75 million. That still leaves about $4 million to fill out the roster.
    Upton makes 9.75 this year and Choo is due about 7.9 through Arb. Upton is the type of player we need but he doesn't leave much room to make a deep team.

    Quote Originally Posted by rtgthree View Post
    Sure, but while you're at it, why not lock down center field as well by trading Eric O'Flaherty for Mike Trout?
    Why not. lol
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  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco View Post
    As I stated I was using MLB's top 20 for the Braves.
    Yeah, just personally not a big fan of Jonathan Mayo. I don't think you'd find too many other prospect experts who would rank Terdoslavich seventh. He's still listed as a third baseman, and he's clearly not going to stick at third, if nothing else. Sickels' list isn't perfect either, in my opinion, but what we're really talking about here is trade value.

    To me, there are seven Braves prospects with actual value in a package for a high-end bat: Teheran, Bethancourt, Gilmartin, Salcedo, Spruill, Graham, and Ahmed. Outside of that, they don't count, as far as I'm concerned. It does NOT mean I don't like anyone else as a prospect. But when you're talking about acquiring a talent of the caliber of Wil Myers (or Justin Upton, etc.), the prospects that are included are almost always high-ceiling and established. Meaning that to be "eligible," you have to project as a big-league starting pitcher or everyday position player AND you have to have projected that way for more than one season. So the first criterion rules out guys like Terdoslavich and Cunningham, and the second one rules out guys like Peraza.

    Unfortunately, it's just a simple fact that the Braves' farm system isn't very strong right now from a trading perspective. Lots of future bench players and lots of lottery tickets. Still, when you include Minor, Delgado and Hanson as potential trade chips, there's plenty of ammunition to swing a deal. Just not three deals for three different top prospects.

    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco View Post
    Some teams like SD have said they need pitching Depth. We can use that to our advantage.
    Except "pitching depth" doesn't mean C-grade prospects who are unlikely to ever make the majors, let alone as starters.

    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco View Post
    Why would they have to give up more? we would be trading the rights to him. there is no comitment for them to pay him.
    I was saying it's not as if the Braves would have to give up more. There's just absolutely no reason that the Padres would take Jurrjens. If they traded for him, then they would just non-tender him the same way the Braves would. It would be pointless. To borrow your analogy, it would be like picking up a dinner mint at Olive Garden even when you know you don't like mints.

    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco View Post
    Upton makes 9.75 this year and Choo is due about 7.9 through Arb. Upton is the type of player we need but he doesn't leave much room to make a deep team.
    My mistake. I don't know where I had the $7.75 million number in my head from. Gordon makes $9 million as well, so I was just totally off-base. I still don't think it's an issue. Projecting B.J. Upton at $15 million and adding Justin at $9.75 million still leaves $1.15 million free. With a need to fill three roster spots (two bench, one bullpen), even $1-2 million of backloading on B.J.'s deal would give you plenty of flexibility. Or maybe backloading on a Prado extension. Or maybe Tommy Hanson or Eric O'Flaherty is traded. Lots of ways to make it work.

  14. #764
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    Wil Myers from the royals is on the table. the royals are looking for pitching. willing to give up teheran for him?

  15. #765
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    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...aseball-part-1

    Cool article, I thought some of you may like. Pretty cool to see Kimbrel, Freeman, and Simmons already recognized. I expect Heyward will be higher up on the list, the rest of the list will be released tomorrow.

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