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  1. #31
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    whoops i was backwards lol

    Schenn +2 for JVR... we wouldnt get Schenn and a 1 no way...

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Stevens View Post
    On Pronger, obviously just using LTIR to extend the Philly cap hit by 4.9 million, which is mathematically the same as subtracting his salary off the league standard cap. just like theyve done with Lappy and Betts

    Only rough spot with that is in the beginning of the season to get that done, and usually you end up putting all your 2 way contract guys you can in the minors for a couple days and so on. Something Homer manages to do just fine.
    Yes, Homer has shuffled a little to squeeze the cap at the beginning of the year...but that was much smaller amounts.....can you play some roster games to move 1.5 or even 2 around..sure.....but hiding 5 million with the contracts we have in place is a much taller task. When you get into the 5 mill range now you're talking about it costing us a player.

    As I'm typing this...almost the best idea is for Jagr to NOT sign with us in the offseason...and then slide him a 2.5 million dollar deal after Prongers LTIR money goes into play.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofphilly View Post

    ...I love the Luke Schenn idea @ 3.6 mil I would take him in a heartbeat! But question is what would it cost to get him... JVR + 2nd ??? Would Tor want to take the 4+ JVR will be set to make even though they will have him locked up...l
    Schenn's value is low. Wilson has essentially ruined him, and he needs a change of scenery. He won't amount to anything in TO now, and every GM out there knows it. Nobody's going to overpay for the kid. I think a 1st gets it done, if that.
    <Meaning and Content>

    ...And did you see that Giroux goal?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by crzyhawk View Post
    Schenn's value is low. Wilson has essentially ruined him, and he needs a change of scenery. He won't amount to anything in TO now, and every GM out there knows it. Nobody's going to overpay for the kid. I think a 1st gets it done, if that.
    I think he can be had for much less then that. But I like it. He's a raw prospect and needs to develop for a couple seasons (basically identical to how we acquired Coburn, and boy has that worked out well for us)

    Coburn - Grossmann
    Mez - Timonen
    Schenn - Gus/Bourdon/Lilja/Kubina (if he is willing to sign cheap considering his age and dropped productivity)

    I like it. Dont think its gonna happen though. Some idiot GM is gonna pay WAY too much for Schenn this offseason. Watch...


  5. #35
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    I wouldn't mind seeing us take a shot at him, but not at the price of JVR. TO needs a big physical winger, and we don't have any to spare in trade for a project defenceman. Burke might bite on our first though (hopefully the 30th over all!).

    I certainly wouldn't give up anyone that Burke would really want though, like say Simmonds or JVR.

    Like you say though, someone might really overpay for him.
    <Meaning and Content>

    ...And did you see that Giroux goal?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by crzyhawk View Post
    I wouldn't mind seeing us take a shot at him, but not at the price of JVR. TO needs a big physical winger, and we don't have any to spare in trade for a project defenceman. Burke might bite on our first though (hopefully the 30th over all!).

    I certainly wouldn't give up anyone that Burke would really want though, like say Simmonds or JVR.

    Like you say though, someone might really overpay for him.
    I think he's worth a prospect and a 3rd rounder at best. Like a Bourdon and a 3rd rounder at best

    (I dont get why everyone says they are stacked with talent at defense and thats why Schenn is #6, have you seen Toronto play? their defense is god awful)


  7. #37
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    Bourdon and a 3rd works for me =P
    The Squads:
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    ...did anyone bring pizza?

  8. #38
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    ^^^ id do that in a heart beat!

  9. #39
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    To the OP, I posted that article (and a few others from BSH that have pointed out how underappreciated Matt Carle is in Philadelphia) in the Grossmann extension thread.

    People who hate Carle are still going to hate him no matter what anyone else says, so it's sort of pointless to debate, but he's a lot better than most people seem to think. I'm curious as to who the whipping boy will be next year...

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuckus View Post
    To the OP, I posted that article (and a few others from BSH that have pointed out how underappreciated Matt Carle is in Philadelphia) in the Grossmann extension thread.

    People who hate Carle are still going to hate him no matter what anyone else says, so it's sort of pointless to debate, but he's a lot better than most people seem to think. I'm curious as to who the whipping boy will be next year...
    if bourdon is in the top 6, i think he's your answer.

  11. #41
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    Probably, yeah.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuckus View Post
    To the OP, I posted that article (and a few others from BSH that have pointed out how underappreciated Matt Carle is in Philadelphia) in the Grossmann extension thread.

    People who hate Carle are still going to hate him no matter what anyone else says, so it's sort of pointless to debate, but he's a lot better than most people seem to think. I'm curious as to who the whipping boy will be next year...
    I suppose folks (myself included) do give him flak he doesn't deserve. There's just something about guys that make boneheaded plays (especially ones that cost the team, ala the blatant one that hung Bryz out to dry two weeks ago) that I hate so much. Perhaps it isn't fair, and hell, if our D stinks next year without him, you can tell me I'm wrong and I'll take my licks like a man, but I'll tell you what: I certainly don't think the guy is worth 5-6.5 million a year. I don't consider him a first pairing guy, and to be honest, it's not saying much that he's a first pairing guy here. Our defense minus Pronger, despite playing well enough to get the job done, is mediocre, perhaps even a smidge below.

    EDIT: And oh, I apologize for the re-post given that you posted this article already. Regardless, thanks for your input!
    The Squads:
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    ...did anyone bring pizza?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by IWantPizza View Post
    I suppose folks (myself included) do give him flak he doesn't deserve. There's just something about guys that make boneheaded plays (especially ones that cost the team, ala the blatant one that hung Bryz out to dry two weeks ago) that I hate so much. Perhaps it isn't fair, and hell, if our D stinks next year without him, you can tell me I'm wrong and I'll take my licks like a man, but I'll tell you what: I certainly don't think the guy is worth 5-6.5 million a year. I don't consider him a first pairing guy, and to be honest, it's not saying much that he's a first pairing guy here. Our defense minus Pronger, despite playing well enough to get the job done, is mediocre, perhaps even a smidge below.

    EDIT: And oh, I apologize for the re-post given that you posted this article already. Regardless, thanks for your input!
    No need to apologize, it deserved its own thread. Just mentioned it since you wondered if anyone had seen it before.

    I get why people don't like Carle. He makes the occasional stupid decision and he isn't physical, two things that will never fly in Philly.

    But based on the current going rate for defensemen of his caliber, Carle is almost definitely getting $5M+ per season going forward. I would say he's a top-pairing guy for a handful of teams. And I do think your assessment of our defense sans Pronger is on the pessimistic side, though that's not to say that you're incorrect. It could certainly be better.

    I think NHL defenseman is one of the hardest positions to properly evaluate in any sport for the average fan, honestly. I don't claim to be any sort of expert, myself.

  14. #44
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    I give him a hard time too just kills me to see some of his mistakes time after time. Turnovers....letting him man skate by him or not picking up the weak side just frustrating

    But like I said I will miss his ability to bring a puck up

  15. #45
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    I think the issue relating to Matt Carle isn't whether or not we like him enough to be back or that he would be overpaid somehow, it's more that he probably just won't fit into OUR budget circumstances. I can't see how we are going to give raises to the other contracts that kick in next year and still afford him in the 5 million range somewhere.

    I don't hate Carle nor do I love him....I just don't view him as one of those difference maker type guys on a defense so when you're talking about managing a cap he's exactly the type of player that the big spending teams have to let walk once in awhile to make the budgets work and one of the Tier B teams with a little more cap flexibility can benefit.

    The main factor that will determine how are defense looks like next year is how we are able to manage Prongers cap hit and what all the rules are surrounding that.....if we are able to get out of it, you'll see an aggressive move made to land a top pairing type guy by Homer. If we have keep his cap and work around it, then you probably won't see much in a big move. We'll have to wait and see.

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