Matt Carle vs. Ryan Suter

[Randall Stevens]

You're right about JVR. Swap him and Couts. I was thinking JVR was a center because of his size. And yes, I'd put Couts and JVR on a line together and explained why I'd put Schenn on the first line in my post. Re-read it.

No problem with the idea of Schenn taking over for Jagr, he replaces the playmaking with energy. But still, the Briere line has been solid.

But Couts and JVR together is like Chinese food and chocolate pudding. Gotta keep Couts with guys like Matt Read, Voracek, Talbot, Wellwood. and JVR needs snipers and playmakers, not 2way forwards.

if voracek and Jagr were both gone Id do

Hartnell - Giroux - Briere (Briere is getting old and can no longer use his speed to survive at center)
JVR - Schenn - Simmonds
Read - Couts - Talbot
Rinaldo - Harry Z/Holmstrom - Wellwood/Sestito/Shelley

Jeez now that I look at that, it wouldnt be the end of the world to lose both Jagr and Voracek and spend all 8 million on defense lol. But we would lose a lot of offensive depth and would be vulnerable to injuries. Wellwood will be ready to move up to be permanent top 9 after next season (I think)

also on defense I'd put Lilja in the AHL, use his 700,000 to help sign Kubina to a 2 million cap hit deal. Leaving 6.7 million to sign 2 forwards (if desired) and 1 defensemen (for those who want Sutter, there ya go)

[IWantPizza]

No problem with the idea of Schenn taking over for Jagr, he replaces the playmaking with energy. But still, the Briere line has been solid.

But Couts and JVR together is like Chinese food and chocolate pudding. Gotta keep Couts with guys like Matt Read, Voracek, Talbot, Wellwood. and JVR needs snipers and playmakers, not 2way forwards.

if voracek and Jagr were both gone Id do

Hartnell - Giroux - Briere (Briere is getting old and can no longer use his speed to survive at center)
JVR - Schenn - Simmonds
Read - Couts - Talbot
Rinaldo - Harry Z/Holmstrom - Wellwood/Sestito/Shelley

Jeez now that I look at that, it wouldnt be the end of the world to lose both Jagr and Voracek and spend all 8 million on defense lol. But we would lose a lot of offensive depth and would be vulnerable to injuries. Wellwood will be ready to move up to be permanent top 9 after next season (I think)

also on defense I'd put Lilja in the AHL, use his 700,000 to help sign Kubina to a 2 million cap hit deal. Leaving 6.7 million to sign 2 forwards (if desired) and 1 defensemen (for those who want Sutter, there ya go)

I can deal with all of that, though I'm not wild about the JVR - Schenn - Simmonds line. I really think you'd be leveraging Schenn's biggest strength matching him up with the playmaker like Giroux. I don't see him being the playmaker to JVR (who in my opinion is more of a balanced guy, power forward type with that size and goals to assists ratio of 11:13), and Simmonds is also that scrappy, power forward. To me that's a balanced guy at left wing, a scorer at center in Schenn, and a muck and grind guy who probably overachieved this year in the scoring department in Simmonds. I can't see the combination having a ton of cohesiveness, but I've been wrong before. I'll tell you what though, that'd be a hell of a fun YOUNG line to watch.

EDIT: As an aside, I feel like Briere is at his best when he's that quarterback behind the net. Would he still play that role as a right winger on the first line?

[Hatch]

According to Capgeek that shows us projected to be 3 million under the cap next year...and that's WITH having to replace Voracek, Jagr and Carle. I'm not sure how accurate next years projected cap is at this point but with raises to JVR and Grossman and Coburn that eats up a lot. I think Schenn's number actually counts higher than it did this year too.

So now for the players in question. I can't see any way that Kubina is here next year. My current belief is that after this season Jody Shelley will just retire and take the all important "coaching position" in the organization a la Riley Cote. That will save us a million there. I think we re-sign Sestito at like 550k to be on that 4th line with probaby a Rinaldo, Wellwood, Sestito combo.....good energy plus VERY cheap on the contract side.

Now as far as Jagr....if he still feels like he has one more year at the level he's had this year then we have to bring him back. The guy has been flat out impressive this year and has made so many great passes and is so composed with the puck..I can't see how we don't bring him back for one more year. Heck, I think he'll even take a little less money if we needed him too. He doesn't need or care about the money at this point.

As much as we like Briere and it's hard to argue against him right now..but really think about the long term here....his regular season work has slowed down, he's injured fairly frequently....sorry, but at this stage of his career I'd rather buy out Briere and keep Jagr for one more year and keep Voracek AND have money to put towards a defenseman. Seriously..Briere's 6.5 gets you Jagr, Voracek and a litlte extra....that's looking like a move we might be forced to make. I'd like to keep Briere and like Randall think he's better served on a wing moving forward.....but I can't keep him in place of some of the other guys. I know it's not popular in the heat of a hot playoffs for him right now..but by next summer we need to think about the future.

Eh, it's a really tough call....I think Briere would mesh real well with Giroux and Harts on the top line...but I dunno...that 6.5 cap hit is AWFULLY big there.....it just may be a case where his contract forces us to have to do something.

Remember, Giroux's contract is up soon and it will take some big coin to keep him...

[Randall Stevens]

I can deal with all of that, though I'm not wild about the JVR - Schenn - Simmonds line. I really think you'd be leveraging Schenn's biggest strength matching him up with the playmaker like Giroux. I don't see him being the playmaker to JVR (who in my opinion is more of a balanced guy, power forward type with that size and goals to assists ratio of 11:13), and Simmonds is also that scrappy, power forward. To me that's a balanced guy at left wing, a scorer at center in Schenn, and a muck and grind guy who probably overachieved this year in the scoring department in Simmonds. I can't see the combination having a ton of cohesiveness, but I've been wrong before. I'll tell you what though, that'd be a hell of a fun YOUNG line to watch.

EDIT: As an aside, I feel like Briere is at his best when he's that quarterback behind the net. Would he still play that role as a right winger on the first line?

Hey the JVR - Schenn - Simmonds line looked great in the middle of the season before Schenn broke his foot.

And Lavy doesn't really stay loyal to the positions on the ice. What I mean is, When [Schenn - Briere - Simmonds] are on the ice, I often see Schenn playing the role of center in the defensive zone (basically the 3rd defensemen, wingers cover the high slot and points) But to answer your question, playing behind the net isnt really something the Giroux does, he really likes to play at the hash marks. So that real estate is up for grabs for Danny.

Also on a side note, remember that Girouxs line mates now are aging and wont be around for long, and Homer needs to consider who his line mates of the next decade could possibly be. Personally if I could call all the shots I think Voracek (passer/playmaker) - Giroux - JVR (Power forward) should be considered as a top line for the long haul. I resign Voracek. Second line for the next decade should be Simmonds - Schenn - Read. 3rd line Wellwood - Couts - ??

[Randall Stevens]

According to Capgeek that shows us projected to be 3 million under the cap next year...and that's WITH having to replace Voracek, Jagr and Carle. I'm not sure how accurate next years projected cap is at this point but with raises to JVR and Grossman and Coburn that eats up a lot. I think Schenn's number actually counts higher than it did this year too.

So now for the players in question. I can't see any way that Kubina is here next year. My current belief is that after this season Jody Shelley will just retire and take the all important "coaching position" in the organization a la Riley Cote. That will save us a million there. I think we re-sign Sestito at like 550k to be on that 4th line with probaby a Rinaldo, Wellwood, Sestito combo.....good energy plus VERY cheap on the contract side.

Now as far as Jagr....if he still feels like he has one more year at the level he's had this year then we have to bring him back. The guy has been flat out impressive this year and has made so many great passes and is so composed with the puck..I can't see how we don't bring him back for one more year. Heck, I think he'll even take a little less money if we needed him too. He doesn't need or care about the money at this point.

As much as we like Briere and it's hard to argue against him right now..but really think about the long term here....his regular season work has slowed down, he's injured fairly frequently....sorry, but at this stage of his career I'd rather buy out Briere and keep Jagr for one more year and keep Voracek AND have money to put towards a defenseman. Seriously..Briere's 6.5 gets you Jagr, Voracek and a litlte extra....that's looking like a move we might be forced to make. I'd like to keep Briere and like Randall think he's better served on a wing moving forward.....but I can't keep him in place of some of the other guys. I know it's not popular in the heat of a hot playoffs for him right now..but by next summer we need to think about the future.

Eh, it's a really tough call....I think Briere would mesh real well with Giroux and Harts on the top line...but I dunno...that 6.5 cap hit is AWFULLY big there.....it just may be a case where his contract forces us to have to do something.

Remember, Giroux's contract is up soon and it will take some big coin to keep him...

use their cap calculator, it works wonders. Factors in next years pay raises and FA loses automatically. (and just delete Pronger)

[Hatch]

use their cap calculator, it works wonders. Factors in next years pay raises and FA loses automatically. (and just delete Pronger)

I'm not sure how the Bonus Cushion factors in..but when you click that it takes the cap space up to 6 million...but again...that's only 20 players...they still need to pay a 7th defenseman and a 13th forward...without the bonus cushion it goes back to 3 million....

and there never has been a definitive answer on pronger...........the rules don't allow for his contract to just be wiped away....so we can't just wipe away his contract unless there is a legal rule to be able to do so.......if that's where you are getting the 8 million by using his 4.9 then I'd like to see the actual rule on how we could get out of it....remember he's over 35 so if he retires his cap number still counts....I haven't heard of any career ending injury exception as of yet..

[Randall Stevens]

I'm not sure how the Bonus Cushion factors in..but when you click that it takes the cap space up to 6 million...but again...that's only 20 players...they still need to pay a 7th defenseman and a 13th forward...without the bonus cushion it goes back to 3 million....

and there never has been a definitive answer on pronger...........the rules don't allow for his contract to just be wiped away....so we can't just wipe away his contract unless there is a legal rule to be able to do so.......if that's where you are getting the 8 million by using his 4.9 then I'd like to see the actual rule on how we could get out of it....remember he's over 35 so if he retires his cap number still counts....I haven't heard of any career ending injury exception as of yet..

On Pronger, obviously just using LTIR to extend the Philly cap hit by 4.9 million, which is mathematically the same as subtracting his salary off the league standard cap. just like theyve done with Lappy and Betts

Only rough spot with that is in the beginning of the season to get that done, and usually you end up putting all your 2 way contract guys you can in the minors for a couple days and so on. Something Homer manages to do just fine.

[ryguy553]

Hey the JVR - Schenn - Simmonds line looked great in the middle of the season before Schenn broke his foot.

And Lavy doesn't really stay loyal to the positions on the ice. What I mean is, When [Schenn - Briere - Simmonds] are on the ice, I often see Schenn playing the role of center in the defensive zone (basically the 3rd defensemen, wingers cover the high slot and points) But to answer your question, playing behind the net isnt really something the Giroux does, he really likes to play at the hash marks. So that real estate is up for grabs for Danny.

Also on a side note, remember that Girouxs line mates now are aging and wont be around for long, and Homer needs to consider who his line mates of the next decade could possibly be. Personally if I could call all the shots I think Voracek (passer/playmaker) - Giroux - JVR (Power forward) should be considered as a top line for the long haul. I resign Voracek. Second line for the next decade should be Simmonds - Schenn - Read. 3rd line Wellwood - Couts - ??

In that scenario I think eventually we would call Cousins or Akeson up to play the third line especially if Akeson keeps putting up points like he has in the AHL.

[MMC1710]

I think Holmgren is going to do what he can to keep Voracek....

This is a young player....and just in this first playoff round alone he's starting to really come into his own....He's showing Philadelphia he CAN be an offensive force...He strong on his skates and with the puck....he has very good vision and stick handling skills....He is making everyone on that 3rd line better with his play....He's also been impressive on the point on the power play...

[Randall Stevens]

c'mon guys can we pleaasssee get Luke?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVao9...eature=related

lol

[fanofphilly]

^^^^

HA! I'm 100% fine with losing Carle as a defender that plays defense. As a defender that brings the puck up and presents offensive transition thats the only part of him i will miss... the ONLY part.

Its unclear of Prongs future but if hes not able to go thats 4.9 added to our cap as well.

I think like another poster here said Holmgren will want to get Jakub locked up. They seem to like him more then us fans do i think. I guess we wrongfully judged too expecting him to be a potential 20-25 and 18 just seemed a bit low. At least i felt that way I think I set high expectations for him.

Who knows about Kubina, I dont think hes played that bad at all and depending on his asking price I would not mind having im back either.

I love the Luke Schenn idea @ 3.6 mil I would take him in a heartbeat! But question is what would it cost to get him... JVR + 2nd ??? Would Tor want to take the 4+ JVR will be set to make even though they will have him locked up...

Who knows. Will be another interesting offseason. But hopefully tommorrow night we can take care of business and all look forward in rooting for the Sens... lol

[delfinko]

Too early to talk about the offseason. We're up 3-0 in round 1 friends!

But if we are going to get either player, Carle would be easier, and might even be willing to take a discount if he likes it enough here. He has moments where he looks lost out there, but the more I think about his game, and what he really can bring to the team, the more I like him. I don't like him for 5+ million a year, but that's a different story.

All I can really say is that I hope the new CBA allows players to restructure their deals. I guess the players wouldn't be too happy about it because they have guaranteed contracts, but I could honestly see Briere, Hartnell, and Timonen willing to take a cut so that Jagr, Vorachek and Carle (or suitable replacement) can all be resigned.

Oh and no thanks on Kubina coming back, especially at 2+ million. He's not worth that. He hasn't been bad, but he certainly hasn't been impressive. I'd rather roll with Gus and MAB, with Lilja as number 7. (We've pretty much done that this year anyway) I have a feeling MAB is the planned replacement for Carle from the FO.

Grossman - Coburn
Timmonen - MAB
Meszaros - Gustaffson

I just hope that Mes can get it in his head that he's a defenseman.

[castan_b]

a) JVR isn't a center ... not sure if that was corrected but it needs to be

b) Suter vs Carle ... lol ... Suter 100 out of 100 times over ... Carle is walking after this year unless he signs on for 3.5 million / year like Grossmann

c) Jagr should get a 2 year deal from us after this year ... at around the same Cap number

Change in Topic ... when JVR does get back ... i'm rolling

Hartnell G Jagr
Simmonds Schenn Briere
JVR Couturier Vorchek
Wellwood Talbot Read

... which sucks for talbot and read ... but where else can we play them with our depth ... at least talbot and read will get ice time doing the PK ...

i love this team's depth .... sorry Rinaldo ... you have taken horrible penalties and Simmonds, Hartnell and Schenn can handle ingame fights from here on out

[Randall Stevens]

^^^^

HA! I'm 100% fine with losing Carle as a defender that plays defense. As a defender that brings the puck up and presents offensive transition thats the only part of him i will miss... the ONLY part.

Its unclear of Prongs future but if hes not able to go thats 4.9 added to our cap as well.

I think like another poster here said Holmgren will want to get Jakub locked up. They seem to like him more then us fans do i think. I guess we wrongfully judged too expecting him to be a potential 20-25 and 18 just seemed a bit low. At least i felt that way I think I set high expectations for him.

Who knows about Kubina, I dont think hes played that bad at all and depending on his asking price I would not mind having im back either.

I love the Luke Schenn idea @ 3.6 mil I would take him in a heartbeat! But question is what would it cost to get him... JVR + 2nd ??? Would Tor want to take the 4+ JVR will be set to make even though they will have him locked up...

Who knows. Will be another interesting offseason. But hopefully tommorrow night we can take care of business and all look forward in rooting for the Sens... lol

What?!?!? JVR has a much higher value then Luke. It would be more like Schenn and a 1st for JVR. Honestly I think Schenn can be had for a prospect and a 4th, but that's just my opinion.

[StryderSox]

What?!?!? JVR has a much higher value then Luke. It would be more like Schenn and a 1st for JVR. Honestly I think Schenn can be had for a prospect and a 4th, but that's just my opinion.