Matt Carle vs. Ryan Suter

[IWantPizza]

I have no idea if this was ever posted here or not, and I'd like to make it clear that I think Matt Carle is a turnover machine who doesn't belong on this team, but Geoff Detweiler raised some really interesting points I did not know.

This will come off as blasphemy, and believe me, I don't want to believe it in the slightest, but according this article, we "Already have Ryan Suter in Matt Carle".

Incredible.

Link: http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...ee-agency-2012

Thoughts?

[StryderSox]

The issue is that because Carle is a strong skating defenseman that can generate a lot of offense and his heading into FA there will be a lot of teams willing to pay him meaning he will become very expensive. We dont need offense and often look sloppy in our own end so if I am spending big coin on a D-Man than I want a shutdown guy like Suter and could potentially fill part of the void left by Pronger if he is done for good. Grossmann has helped considerably but we still dont have that 20+ minute beast that Pronger once was.

[PhillyPhan8790]

Carle had a pretty good regular season but has been atrocious in the post-season. He's always been a good skater but has no head on his shoulders. Might also have the worst shot on the team.

[Randall Stevens]

The issue is that because Carle is a strong skating defenseman that can generate a lot of offense and his heading into FA there will be a lot of teams willing to pay him meaning he will become very expensive. We dont need offense and often look sloppy in our own end so if I am spending big coin on a D-Man than I want a shutdown guy like Suter and could potentially fill part of the void left by Pronger if he is done for good. Grossmann has helped considerably but we still dont have that 20+ minute beast that Pronger once was.

I agree with the bold completely, but not the rest. Not too sure if you can call Suter a shut down guy.

Fact of the matter is, Suter is paired with a future #1 defensemen in the league. Hey Suter might be great without him, but you'll never know until after a big juicy FA contract is already signed.

I am saying a huge no thanks to both Carle and Suter.

Carle will require 5.5-6 million
Sutter will get 5.5-7.5 million, depending on the bidding.

this team cant afford either, ESPECIALLY with Grossmann's new contract. Resigning one of them is basically saying goodbye to either Voracek or Jagr.

Take your pick which package you prefer.

[IWantPizza]

I like Suter at 5/yr, I think he's a top-defensive pairing guy who would mesh well with Timonen. I just can't stand how Carle plays the game. He makes bonehead mistakes like Shane Victorino for the Phils with half the talent. He's a solid passer, but I truly think this team needs that shutdown guy to put in front of Bryz. I think Suter can be that guy, but I suppose we'd have to see him on his own to know.

If the choice is Jagr AND Voracek vs. Suter, personally I'm going with Suter. I think you can put Schenn on that first line in Jagr's place. He has shown his shot is good enough to finish plays when Giroux makes them, and though he's not as big as Jagr, he's shown how physical and strong he is. I love what Jagr has done this year, but I truly believe Schenn would be an absolute stud if Giroux was dishing to him for a full year.

JVR coming back would be a lift for the team, and I personally still think he's more talented and has higher upside than Voracek (I know they play different positions).

I see our top-3 lines like this next year:

Schenn - Giroux - Hartnell
Simmonds - Briere - Read
Wellwood - Couturier - JVR (I know JVR is a center, but with his size, we could move him to the wing and he'd be a wonderful power forward)

D:

Pronger - Suter
Timonen - Grossman
Coburn - Gus / Lilja / Coburn

(if Prongs retires, we can retain Voracek, so plan accordingly)

Actually... On second thought, we're stacked at center again. Danny is unmovable, and Voracek has been so valuable. The chemistry on these lines has been wonderful... Maybe we SHOULD move JVR for Luke Schenn and keep the roster intact. Ah, decisions!

[IWantPizza]

^ Suter would mesh well with Timonen IF Prongs retires is what I should've said. I think Prongs and Suter would be quite awesome, however. =)

[IWantPizza]

^^ Dammit, not Gus / Lilja / Coburn, I meant Gus / Lilja / Bourdon. =x

[MacManus]

I'd take Carle over Jagr going forward, to be honest.

Blasphemy?

[Randall Stevens]

I'd take Carle over Jagr going forward, to be honest.

Blasphemy?

I was actually starting to think the same thing.

But Jagr does so much for this offense that doesn't get recognized by the common folk

Watch Jagr's assist on this goal, its truly incredible:
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...3&event=PHI470

When he got the puck, he saw Read was gonna get in position, so he skated back and forth, watching the 4 defenders like he was a QB and they were a CB CB FS and SS. Once he saw a lane, he fired the pass.

Touchdown. Not too many guys in the NHL can show that kind of composure, hockey IQ, and touch on the pass.

[MacManus]

I agree with that, but I think we'd use Carle more than Jagr (specifically, if we resigned Carle it would be a long-term investment [and a worthy one] whereas signing Jagr is still a one-year lease type deal] and get more in return for our investment.

[Randall Stevens]

I like Suter at 5/yr, I think he's a top-defensive pairing guy who would mesh well with Timonen. I just can't stand how Carle plays the game. He makes bonehead mistakes like Shane Victorino for the Phils with half the talent. He's a solid passer, but I truly think this team needs that shutdown guy to put in front of Bryz. I think Suter can be that guy, but I suppose we'd have to see him on his own to know.

If the choice is Jagr AND Voracek vs. Suter, personally I'm going with Suter. I think you can put Schenn on that first line in Jagr's place. He has shown his shot is good enough to finish plays when Giroux makes them, and though he's not as big as Jagr, he's shown how physical and strong he is. I love what Jagr has done this year, but I truly believe Schenn would be an absolute stud if Giroux was dishing to him for a full year.

JVR coming back would be a lift for the team, and I personally still think he's more talented and has higher upside than Voracek (I know they play different positions).

I see our top-3 lines like this next year:

Schenn - Giroux - Hartnell
Simmonds - Briere - Read
Wellwood - Couturier - JVR (I know JVR is a center, but with his size, we could move him to the wing and he'd be a wonderful power forward)

D:

Pronger - Suter
Timonen - Grossman
Coburn - Gus / Lilja / Coburn

(if Prongs retires, we can retain Voracek, so plan accordingly)

Actually... On second thought, we're stacked at center again. Danny is unmovable, and Voracek has been so valuable. The chemistry on these lines has been wonderful... Maybe we SHOULD move JVR for Luke Schenn and keep the roster intact. Ah, decisions!

JVR on a 3rd line with Couts? seriously? and break up the Simmonds/Briere/Schenn line for what reason? and JVR is NOT a center. And JVR is worth WAY more then Schenn at this point, forget that rumor ever existed.

gotta say, dont like those lines, and no reason to sign Sutter. Cannot sign another 6+ million guy until either Hartnell, Timonen, or Briere are no longer on the team. It would without a doubt break up the core of this team.

[Randall Stevens]

I agree with that, but I think we'd use Carle more than Jagr (specifically, if we resigned Carle it would be a long-term investment [and a worthy one] whereas signing Jagr is still a one-year lease type deal] and get more in return for our investment.

Flyers will have about 8 million total to sign 2 forwards (replace or resign Jagr/Voracek) and 2 defensemen (replace or resign Carle/Kubina)

That is not a lot. Not enough for Carle. And some people want to use 6 or 7 million of it on Sutter....

[IWantPizza]

You're right about JVR. Swap him and Couts. I was thinking JVR was a center because of his size. And yes, I'd put Couts and JVR on a line together and explained why I'd put Schenn on the first line in my post. Re-read it.

[MacManus]

Flyers will have about 8 million total to sign 2 forwards (replace or resign Jagr/Voracek) and 2 defensemen (replace or resign Carle/Kubina)

That is not a lot. Not enough for Carle. And some people want to use 6 or 7 million of it on Sutter....

I see your point.

[Randall Stevens]

double post