View Poll Results: Best AL East SS in 2012

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  • Hardy

    46 24.60%

  • Escobar

    82 43.85%

  • Jeter

    59 31.55%
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  1. 04-14-2012, 01:29 PM #46
    Mr Haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by sexicano31 View Post
    Grit+intangibles>>>>>actual on field stats
    I think your favorite past time is not baseball, but finding ugly situations and making them uglier.

    Lots to be proud of there.
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  3. 04-14-2012, 01:45 PM
    sexicano31

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  4. 04-14-2012, 02:13 PM #47
    7chuck7
    7chuck7 is offline General Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jays Claw View Post
    But those qualities don't necessarily translate towards a certain player's performance on the baseball field. We're not discussing nor evaluating which one of Escobar/Jeter/Hardy are the better team captain/clubhouse leader. We're here discussing which one of them is the better overall SS in 2012. And the only way of supporting our argument for the one of them is by using stats that relate to offensive/defensive porductivity. Such intangibles like being a clubhouse leader, team captain, and being the cash cow of his team's ticket sales don't necessarily come into play here.



    The thing is though, we're not comparing the particular player's personality and attitude within the clubhouse. For example, Manny (from '02-07) was an offensive monster (despite the use of HGH) while pretty much being an absolute moron. But despite his personality, I'm pretty sure every team and every fan would've wanted him on their side solely based on his offensive productivity.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    We're here discussing which one of them is the better overall SS in 2012.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    That is my point. Better overall. Not best fielding and batting stats. 'Overall' includes many aspects.
    "Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankee win."
    -- Yankees announcer Phil Rizzuto after reading a bulletin that Pope Paul VI had died
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  5. 04-14-2012, 02:22 PM #48
    Mr Haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by sexicano31 View Post
    Because you never exacerbate a situation ever
    I don't make it an hourly routine.

    You're constantly complaining about how dumb people are, and yet you spend all your time goading the dumb people on. Do you really think that helps?
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  6. 04-14-2012, 02:25 PM #49
    Shamrock
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    Hardy is the best.
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  7. 04-14-2012, 03:06 PM #50
    es0terik
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    Quote Originally Posted by sexicano31 View Post
    Because you never exacerbate a situation ever
    I don't think anybody on this forum comes within a mile of you in terms of how often you do it.
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  8. 04-14-2012, 03:08 PM #51
    sexicano31
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    Aw thanks
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  9. 04-14-2012, 03:26 PM #52
    jaysfan4ever
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodgersuck View Post
    I would take Escobar. I still can't believe they got him for Alex Gonzalez, that was a trade rape
    To be fair, the Braves got Alex Gonzalez plus Tyler Pastornicky (the 22-year old current starting SS for the Braves), and Tim Collins, a 22-year old reliever in the Royals pen and a potential closer-of-the-future.

    Hardly a steal if you ask me.

    Also, people rave about Escobar's defence as being amazing, but if we're goin by UZR, Escobar's defence is above average for a SS (between 4.2 and 1.7 per 150 each year for the last 4 years) versus Hardy who's been one of the best (between 6.8 and 12.8 the last 4 years). If we're goin by stats, Hardy's clearly the better defender. Escobar, stats-wise is the better bat, which makes this a close call.

    EDIT: I was using Fangraphs' UZR to measure defence. Baseball-reference's Rtot/g and Rdrs/g have Yunel Escobar as slightly better than JJ Hardy for the last 4 years. Might as well call this one a wash defensively, and give Yunel the edge overall because of his offence.
    Last edited by jaysfan4ever; 04-14-2012 at 03:55 PM.
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  11. 04-14-2012, 03:35 PM #53
    Kenny_Powers's Avatar
    Kenny_Powers
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    Quote Originally Posted by sexicano31 View Post
    Aw thanks
    Your calling out of absurd posts always gives me a good laugh.
    Originally posted by Cooshman:
    I still think you are a baseball geek who could only win a baseball game in a self programmed computer game...whereas in real life, you would get slaughtered.
    Lind will prove you wrong and you will probably hide from the topic when he does....which is typical of people like you who know much less then they think they do.
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  12. 04-14-2012, 03:36 PM #54
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    The fact that Jeter is even on this list is laughable.
    Originally posted by Cooshman:
    I still think you are a baseball geek who could only win a baseball game in a self programmed computer game...whereas in real life, you would get slaughtered.
    Lind will prove you wrong and you will probably hide from the topic when he does....which is typical of people like you who know much less then they think they do.
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  13. 04-14-2012, 04:01 PM #55
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    treeleaf
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7chuck7 View Post
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    We're here discussing which one of them is the better overall SS in 2012.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    That is my point. Better overall. Not best fielding and batting stats. 'Overall' includes many aspects.
    Thank god you will never be anywhere near the game of baseball.
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  14. 04-14-2012, 04:03 PM #56
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    treeleaf
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    I honestly think that its pretty ****ing close between escobar and hardy. However due to my bias ide prolly say that hardy is better as of right now.
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  15. 04-14-2012, 04:29 PM #57
    7chuck7
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    Quote Originally Posted by treeleaf View Post
    Thank god you will never be anywhere near the game of baseball.
    I am sure I played it much longer and at a higher level than you ever did. If you can't understand the premise of, 'better overall' including qualities other than physical ability you have shown it is you who really has not been near the game. Try the NHL forum. You might like that.

    You spelled God incorrectly.

    Back to your statistics and your Fantasy Baseball League.
    "Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankee win."
    -- Yankees announcer Phil Rizzuto after reading a bulletin that Pope Paul VI had died
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  16. 04-14-2012, 04:37 PM #58
    sexicano31
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    I love this guy
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  17. 04-14-2012, 04:46 PM #59
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    Iodine
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    This guy is almost as awesome is the "Bro I played semi-professional football" dude
    College Football: SOON

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  18. 04-14-2012, 04:52 PM #60
    Yankees 1903's Avatar
    Yankees 1903
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    Yankees forum Press release: 7chuck7 does not represent the views of the PSD Yankees forum. We were very happy with Jeter's improved bat during the 2nd half of the 2011 season and his good start this season. However we do not condone the use of hustle, ticket sales, grit, and leadership as a way to determine the playing ability of a MLB player.
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