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  1. #16
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    1) You act as if you've never had any 1st round picks

    2) Out of curiosity, who are these "mid round picks" that you've turned into "All Stars?"

    3) Considering Fleury is 27, Malkin is 25, Crosby is 24, and Staal is 23, I'll worry about "sucking" in 10 years or so

    4) We've beaten you every year we've met in the playoffs, you have yet to kick our *****

    5) Luck has had nothing to do with this season. We are 2nd in man games lost and no, you aren't 1st, so you have nothing to complain about

  2. 04-01-2012, 08:12 PM
    Reason
    baiting

  3. 04-01-2012, 08:24 PM
    Reason
    baiting

  4. #17
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    Not here to bait or troll. I just wanna know what you meant by this comment:

    "never mind that the attention has been well-earned."

    Since 1992 you have won 1 cup, back in 2009 (which i'm extremely jealous of), so what does "well-earned" mean?
    Last edited by jammastershake; 04-05-2012 at 06:28 PM.
    Don't let this face fool you...

    #28

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammastershake View Post
    Not here to bait or troll. I just wanna know what you meant by this comment:

    "never mind that the attention has been well-earned."

    Since 1992 you have won 1 cup, back in 2009 (which i'm extremely jealous of), so what does "well-earned" mean?
    Cups don't define a team.
    The Suns in basketball didn't win anything in the last 10 years but the success they had brought heavy attention. Not simply because it was fun, it was because it worked.
    Not all the Pens teams were great but they had some consistency. Playoff appearances, and relevancy.

    Currently, this teams success has warranted the media attention it gets. It's no longer just Crosby or Malkin either despite them being the sexy names.

  6. #19
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    Just got done punching some numbers after I found a log of the average attendance for all NHL teams since the 1989-1990 season. It was rather exhaustive because I had to find the capacity numbers for all NHL arenas since then in order to break the numbers down as a percentage of capacity. So without further ado, here's the average attendance of 27 NHL teams as a percentage of capacity, plus the standard deviation in the annual percentages of capacity...


    Average percentage of capacity per NHL team since 1989-1990

    100.7% - Toronto Maple Leafs
    100.4% - Detroit Red Wings
    99.5% - Philadelphia Flyers
    98.4% - San Jose Sharks
    98.1% - New York Rangers
    97.1% - Dallas Stars
    96.8% - Montreal Canadiens
    96.7% - Colorado Avalanche
    95.3% - Ottawa Senators
    94.7% - Vancouver Canucks
    94.5% - St. Louis Blues
    94.1% - Boston Bruins
    93.4% - Pittsburgh Penguins
    93.3% - Edmonton Oilers
    92.5% - Calgary Flames
    92.5% - Buffalo Sabres
    92.3% - Los Angeles Kings
    91.1% - Anaheim Ducks
    90.9% - Chicago Blackhawks
    88.1% - Phoenix Coyotes
    87.2% - Nashville Predators
    86.8% - Florida Panthers
    85.8% - Tampa Bay Lightning
    85.7% - Washington Capitals
    80.8% - New Jersey Devils
    80.3% - Carolina Hurricanes
    75.9% - New York Islanders


    Standard deviation of the average percentage of capacity per NHL team since 1989-1990

    0.7% - Philadelphia Flyers
    2.0% - Toronto Maple Leafs
    2.1% - Detroit Red Wings
    2.3% - San Jose Sharks
    2.7% - Dallas Stars
    3.0% - Montreal Canadiens
    3.8% - New York Rangers
    5.0% - Ottawa Senators
    5.7% - Vancouver Canucks
    6.2% - Nashville Predators
    6.8% - Colorado Avalanche
    7.0% - Pittsburgh Penguins
    7.0% - Los Angeles Kings
    7.0% - Boston Bruins
    7.0% - New Jersey Devils
    7.1% - Washington Capitals
    7.1% - Calgary Flames
    7.3% - Phoenix Coyotes
    7.4% - Buffalo Sabres
    8.3% - Florida Panthers
    8.5% - New York Islanders
    8.9% - Edmonton Oilers
    9.3% - St. Louis Blues
    9.5% - Anaheim Ducks
    9.7% - Carolina Hurricanes
    13.2% - Tampa Bay Lightning
    15.2% - Chicago Blackhawks


    Notes

    1. All percentage ties are broken by smaller decimal points.

    2. Attendance figures do not include the 2010-2011 or 2011-2012 seasons.

    3. Attendance figures for the Carolina Hurricanes and Tampa Bay Lightning do not include any seasons before either team moved into their current venues, due to unusual logistical circumstances.

    4. The Atlanta Thrashers, Columbus Blue Jackets, Hartford Whalers, Minnesota North Stars, Minnesota Wild, Quebec Nordiques and Winnipeg Jets are not included in this comparison.


    So what does this all mean? Well, the average percentage of capacity is straightforward; that's the overall percentage of seats occupied in each team's arena(s) since the 1989-1990 season. As for the standard deviation, what that illustrates is the tendency for fluctuations in a team's average attendance from season to season. The lower the standard deviation, the more consistent the average attendance from one season to the next, and the higher the standard deviation, the more variable the average attendance.

    The Penguins are mid-pack in both regards, which means that while attendance could be a bit more consistent from one season to the next, there are many fan bases in the NHL that are more inconsistent in supporting their teams than Penguins fans are, which belies the notion of the Penguins having a "bandwagon" fan base. The fan base that's most analogous to the Penguins is the Bruins, so it's a logical fallacy to suggest that Penguins fans are bandwagoners but Bruins fans are not. As for the "Original Six," Blackhawks fans have been less consistent in their support than Penguins fans have been. Among Canadian teams, fans of the Flames and Oilers have been less consistent in their support as well.
    "...more talking went on between us all until [Roethlisberger and his entourage] left the bar. Then I seperated with [name redacted] and the other girls and went with another group, and everything else happened, and I was told about it this morning and felt I needed to give my statement. Looking back and hearing all of the details, it seems to me that it was a set-up, and so I think this needed to be told."

    -Victoria Garofalo, Zeta Tau Alpha sorority sister, in a statement to the GBI

  7. #20
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    Someone did their homework lol. That's a lot of information though and I appreciate it. It would be pretty hard to try and refute the evidence you just posted

  8. #21
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    I'd like to preface this by saying that while I don't like many of the players on the Penguins and am a Flyer fan through and through, I respect the hell out of the Penguins organization, which has been a model of class and has consistently put a good team on the ice for the better part of the past 15 years. Also, Mario Lemieux, aside from being an absolute generational talent, is one of the classiest guys to ever lace 'em up.

    That said, I'm not sure how the Blackhawks situations and Penguins situations are comparable, and bringing them into the argument just seems like a bit of a reach to me. The Pens catch flak because they're arguably the most polarizing team in the sport. They've consistently had at least one Top-10 player for the better part of the last 15 years, so they stay under the microscope. When the Pens don't win, it's a bigger deal than when the Blackhawks don't win. When there are issues with fan attendance (and I get your point that that's a ruse, I'm honestly not well-versed enough in Pens history to have an educated opinion either way), it's going to be a bigger deal in Pittsburgh than in Chicago. I can't remember the last time the Blackhawks were a truly dominant team. Even when they won the cup (and beat my Flyers) in 2010, I knew they were a great team, but were they truly dominant? They had arguably the worst goaltender to ever win a cup between the pipes.

    The Pens on the other hand have two absolute All-World talents in Crosby and Malkin, a plethora of all-star talents in Letang, Fleury, Neal, Staal, and one of the most rabid fan bases in sports. They have MUCH more to offer in the way of talent, but they ALSO have much more to offer than the Blackhawks in terms of personality. I share the opinion that Sid is a generally cheap player who has tremendous talent but slyly practices Bush League tactics, dives too much for my taste (though has gotten better over the years), and whines an awful lot. BUT, he's the face of the NHL, and honestly, it's a GOOD thing. The league needed a polarizing superstar like that to pick the NHL back up after the lockout, and it's been bad for the game, him missing 100+ the last two seasons.

    So in conclusion, again I don't think the Blackhawks comparison is in the same ballpark, and I kinda feel like it came out of left field (no pun intended). The Penguins are probably the most recognizable team in hockey. The Blackhawks are an original six squad who is MUCH less relevant than the Pens, so you guys take more heat. When you're the man, you carry the torch, enjoy the spoils of victory, and bear the major brunt of the ire of the hockey world when things don't go your way. That's just how it is when you're a big dog. I think you guys just need to be proud that you have a team that can cause so much hatred and misinformation, because nobody would be talking about them at all if they weren't a top-notch franchise with all-world talents.
    Last edited by IWantPizza; 04-15-2012 at 07:14 PM.
    The Squads:
    Flyers - Phillies - Eagles - 76ers

    ...did anyone bring pizza?

  9. #22
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    You make some good points, but to me, fluctuations in attendance should matter more in Chicago since the Chicago metropolitan area is four times as large as the Pittsburgh metropolitan area. They have a much larger base to draw from, so their lack of attendance for several years baffles me.
    "...more talking went on between us all until [Roethlisberger and his entourage] left the bar. Then I seperated with [name redacted] and the other girls and went with another group, and everything else happened, and I was told about it this morning and felt I needed to give my statement. Looking back and hearing all of the details, it seems to me that it was a set-up, and so I think this needed to be told."

    -Victoria Garofalo, Zeta Tau Alpha sorority sister, in a statement to the GBI

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBR96A View Post
    You make some good points, but to me, fluctuations in attendance should matter more in Chicago since the Chicago metropolitan area is four times as large as the Pittsburgh metropolitan area. They have a much larger base to draw from, so their lack of attendance for several years baffles me.
    That's a good point, I didn't think of it that way. I still think that the bigger picture though is that the Penguins are the better / more prestigious organization. In my opinion, the Penguins are perhaps the fourth most prestigious organization in hockey behind only the Red Wings, Canadiens, and Maple Leafs. You guys just catch more flak because you have a high profile.

    I suppose it's a Catch-22, because you want your organization to receive accolades and stay relevant, but at the same time that opens you guys up to a bevy of criticisms less relevant organizations may not face. I'm not sure who, but someones sig in this thread reads "Embrace the hate and jealousy my fellow Pen fans". I agree. We do the same here in Philly, and the rivalry between our two clubs is good for hockey AND good for the fans. It's easy for me to say I've enjoyed this series so much because my club is up 3-0, but even if we were down 3-0, this has easily been the most entertaining playoff hockey I've seen since the Flyers-Sens war a few years back, and the Flyers-Sabres war a few years before that (Matt Barnaby pretending to be hurt and then getting up and pounding on Garth Snow, what a knucklehead).

    Anyway, best of luck to you guys. I want my boys to sweep yours on Wednesday, especially after Sid's comments yesterday, but I acknowledge that you guys have one hell of a club, and so does the rest of the hockey world in one way or another.
    The Squads:
    Flyers - Phillies - Eagles - 76ers

    ...did anyone bring pizza?

  11. #24
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    When considering the Blackhawks' attendance issues, you have to acknowledge how the practices of Dollar Bill Wirtz negatively impacted the fans. For Christ's sake, they didn't even have games on local TV until a couple of years ago. That's going to screw with any fanbase, especially when management is putting an inferior product on the ice because ownership is a joke.

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