D-Will

[ombada]

Actually, he's really been inconsistent his entire tenure here outside of this season. He has yet to show that he can grab 10+ boards (which should be expected with his size) and he hasn't reached his full potential defensively either.

Anyways, he's a restricted free agent so I doubt we overpay him.

I didnt say he was consistent from game to game. I said he was consistently improving. He has increased all the stats that matter to centers. PPG, BPG, and RPG have all increased each year he has been in the league. Throw in that he was an all star this year and you know he will make more than 8 mil easy.

[Shammyguy3]

If we got him we would contend with Miamai and Chicago

I agree with this, especially if you guys start utilizing Hibbert more. I feel he's one of the most underutilized players in the game right now.

D Will would be the perfect star to place next to Granger. We would be built like the Bulls With Williams as our Rose and Granger a better version of Deng. I would be all for Bird making a strong push for him.

Mehhh Rose is a better offensive player & defensive player than Williams, and Deng is a much better defender and rebounder than Granger. Offensively, Granger (with Williams) would probably outproduce Deng if both players are healthy.

I'd love to get williams...he's a beast. But, i think a more realistic option would be to try and land a Steve Nash. he can still play and i think he could possibly lead us to a championship. I just think it's more realistic is all. He's mentioned he will want out if the Suns don't immediately improve the roster to make them a contender this summer. I can see Bird giving him a call and saying we have all the pieces, but you and Nash buying into it.

With that being said....the Pacers are a really attractive team for a top flight free agent point to come in and light it up.

I think Steve Nash would be great for you guys too... but you'll need someone that can score more consistently imo and better defense, and Nash doesn't really provide either

There are 2 centers right now averaging double digit rebounds regardless of size...Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum.

You have a few guys a little over what Roy is bringing down, but you have to look at our rotation and realize that Roy isn't getting 35-38 minutes like Bynum and Howard by design. Give him 5-8 more minutes and I think he averages a double double...but that isn't necessary.

He is a RFA and I will expect some team to offer him close to what Marc Gasol commanded last year and we will and should match it. Roy will be a hot player when he hits FA due to him being one of the very few centers in the league that doesn't have injury concerns, is an all around center that isn't just a defensive center or a shooter or shot blocker etc, and is a fan favorite....I fully expect us to match any offer up to the max he can get.

Hibbert's per36 numbers are 15.4ppg and 10.5apg
Give the man more minutes and increase his usage percentage to at least 26.0%, the man should be getting at least 16 shots a game imo.

[Colts2180]

Rose is a different type of player than Williams. Hes a scoring slasher while Williams is a pass first pg. I will say Rose is a better player than Williams but no way is Deng better than Granger. Kills me how much credit him and Iggy get for putting up mediocre numbers. Deng is a better defender(slightly) but offensively Granger is far and above better than him.

[PacersForLife]

Rose is a different type of player than Williams. Hes a scoring slasher while Williams is a pass first pg. I will say Rose is a better player than Williams but no way is Deng better than Granger. Kills me how much credit him and Iggy get for putting up mediocre numbers. Deng is a better defender(slightly) but offensively Granger is far and above better than him.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but Granger is not even comparable to Deng. I don't think I've ever seen Deng take over a game like Granger has done in years past and has done quite a few times this year. Deng is a good player, but he is not in the same tier as Granger.

As far as Williams and D-Rose goes, Rose is a better defender. I think it's safe to say that Williams is better offensively... I mean the guy put up the highest point total with 57 points this year. Williams is also a better passer. I'm not saying Rose is a bad player offensively, but I mean his main go-to move is to go full steam to the basket while laying it in, dunking, or getting fouled. He has a decent jumper, but Williams is a better shooter.

[Shammyguy3]

Rose is a different type of player than Williams. Hes a scoring slasher while Williams is a pass first pg. I will say Rose is a better player than Williams but no way is Deng better than Granger. Kills me how much credit him and Iggy get for putting up mediocre numbers. Deng is a better defender(slightly) but offensively Granger is far and above better than him.

Deng is a much better defender. Anything short than that is a joke, which doesn't mean that Granger doesn't play defense well. Deng is just an outstanding defender. He's easily the best defensive player on arguably the best defense in the league with great individual defenders in Rose, Brewer, Gibson, Asik, and Noah.

Granger is definitely the better offensive player when compared to Deng. And PacersForLife, you don't watch enough Bulls game then. Here's a funny statistic:

# of games where each player scored 20+ points:
Granger - 27 out of 58 total games (46.6% of the time)
Deng - 19 out of 51 total games (37.3% of the time)

That's with Deng playing with an injured left wrist that will require surgery in the offseason, a completely torn ligament. With Deng having the 5th highest usage percentage on his team (i'm not including John Lucas or Mike James, otherwise he'd be 7th), in comparison to Granger having the highest on his team by a significant amount.

And last year, # of games where each player scored 20+ points:
Granger - 39 out of 79 total games (49.4%)
Deng - 27 out of 82 total games (33.0%)

That was with Granger still having the highest usg% on his team, by a pretty large amount again; Deng last year was again 4th on the team.



Call me crazy, but i'd rather have Deng's consistent all around game than Granger's offensive impact. Deng's such a great defender and a very good rebounder, and doesn't turn it over like Granger does (who's ast/tov ratio over the last two seasons is 0.96 which is pathetic for a guy with the ball in his hands so much that draws so much attention from the defense). Deng's over that same time period is 1.53 which is a big difference.

Deng's the much better defender, the better rebounder/passer, and personally imo the smarter player that will impact pact the game offensively without needing the ball in his hands, but who is capable of making things happen if you need him to.

[Colts2180]

Lol he is not FAR better defensively. Granger came into the league being known for his defense. Hes lacked in that area under our old coach because the guy was an idiot but this year hes gotten it back. You apparently havent watched Pacers games this year because Granger has been dominant on D alot this year. Plus Rose has been hurt alot this year making Deng have to take more shots and be a bigger part of the offense. Dengs a good player but I cant justify saying hes better than Granger. Plus Grangers a pretty damn good rebounder as well(dont average over 5 boards by sucking at it) Deng will never be the offensive player Granger is and they are pretty close in defensive capability.

[BoilerMan013]

Call me crazy, but i'd rather have Deng's consistent all around game than Granger's offensive impact. Deng's such a great defender and a very good rebounder, and doesn't turn it over like Granger does (who's ast/tov ratio over the last two seasons is 0.96 which is pathetic for a guy with the ball in his hands so much that draws so much attention from the defense). Deng's over that same time period is 1.53 which is a big difference.

Deng's the much better defender, the better rebounder/passer, and personally imo the smarter player that will impact pact the game offensively without needing the ball in his hands, but who is capable of making things happen if you need him to.

I think the difference is pretty minimal. Also, you have to consider that Deng always plays more minutes. This means his production is inflated (compared to Granger's) but also be a testament to his endurance.

Deng has a little bit of an edge defensively and Granger has a little bit of an edge offensively.

Granger has a couple years experience of being the #1 or #1a option on a playoff team for a little over 2 seasons now, but that's the only thing he's one that Deng hasn't. And there's no knowing if Deng would or wouldn't be able to handle that pressure.

[stealth33]

Deng is a much better defender. Anything short than that is a joke, which doesn't mean that Granger doesn't play defense well. Deng is just an outstanding defender. He's easily the best defensive player on arguably the best defense in the league with great individual defenders in Rose, Brewer, Gibson, Asik, and Noah.

Granger is definitely the better offensive player when compared to Deng. And PacersForLife, you don't watch enough Bulls game then. Here's a funny statistic:

# of games where each player scored 20+ points:
Granger - 27 out of 58 total games (46.6% of the time)
Deng - 19 out of 51 total games (37.3% of the time)

That's with Deng playing with an injured left wrist that will require surgery in the offseason, a completely torn ligament. With Deng having the 5th highest usage percentage on his team (i'm not including John Lucas or Mike James, otherwise he'd be 7th), in comparison to Granger having the highest on his team by a significant amount.

And last year, # of games where each player scored 20+ points:
Granger - 39 out of 79 total games (49.4%)
Deng - 27 out of 82 total games (33.0%)

That was with Granger still having the highest usg% on his team, by a pretty large amount again; Deng last year was again 4th on the team.



Call me crazy, but i'd rather have Deng's consistent all around game than Granger's offensive impact. Deng's such a great defender and a very good rebounder, and doesn't turn it over like Granger does (who's ast/tov ratio over the last two seasons is 0.96 which is pathetic for a guy with the ball in his hands so much that draws so much attention from the defense). Deng's over that same time period is 1.53 which is a big difference.

Deng's the much better defender, the better rebounder/passer, and personally imo the smarter player that will impact pact the game offensively without needing the ball in his hands, but who is capable of making things happen if you need him to.

You can only say you would rather take the consistent production because you have rose on the team. Granger has to be our first scoring option and while he isn't the ideal #1 option, he is a world's better #1 option than deng.

Different teams need different players. I know you've been successful without rose, but that probably isn't sustainable in the playoffs.

[PacersForLife]

I will never understand how Bulls fans can compare Deng and Granger. Granger is a better scorer and if you don't see that then I don't know what's wrong with you. Granger's defense is very good when he puts forth effort. I will agree that Deng's defense is better. I don't think Deng could handle being a #1 option.