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Thread: Wilpons money

  1. #1
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    Wilpons money

    The Wilpons were hooked on Madoff.

    The more I read the more it looks like the Wilpons had to turn a blind eye to what Madoff was doing. They were so hooked on to the money he could make them (all without needing or wanting to know how he was able to make more than anyone else)

    They took out loans just to fund their investments

    They took the money they owed players and put it in Madoff investments so they could make profits in the long run (That explains why they thought it was a good idea to hold Bonilla's money for a few years and then pay him $30 million over the next 20+ years)

    They didn't pay disability insurance premiums on players figuring they could pay off any injured players with the Madoff money.

    It wasn't just the Mets business that they used Madoff investments, they would re-finance the properties they owned and put that money into Madoff investments. (So you have to wonder about how badly they are hurting in their personal finances)

    They did all this because Madoff was making them a ton of money and they kept wanting more, and if you believe them, they never asked why he was able to do what no one else could, and they weren't even allowed to know how he was doing it.

    I guess if everything I had was being financed by one source I wouldn't ask any questions either.

  2. #2
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    They're creeps, greedy horrible mendacious creeps.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    They're creeps, greedy horrible mendacious creeps.
    Get off the fence and tell us how you really feel.

  4. #4
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    I guess some people have to beat the same old dead horse.

  5. #5
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    I dont think anyone would disagree that the Wilpons held Madoff in such high esteem that they ignored sound financial strategy to diversify their assets. As Ive stated all along, they were blinded by loyalty. If some people want to classify that as "greed" -- okay thats a matter of perspective.
    Baseball Maverick: How Sandy Alderson Revolutionized Baseball and Revived the Mets
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  6. #6
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    •March 2000: Chuck Klein purchases fraud insurance to cover his holdings with Bernie Madoff purchased through Sterling Equities and holds it through 2004 while he is a business partner of Sterling Equities.
    •2000: David Katz, a Sterling partner since 1987, begins “screaming” for diversification from Bernie Madoff.
    •August 2000: Wilpon and Katz sign letters prepared by and on the authority of Madoff that hide their Madoff connection from the New York attorney general.
    •No later than February 2001: Chuck Klein advises Katz to purchase fraud insurance for his Madoff holdings.
    •June 2001: The Sterling partners look into fraud insurance, specifically its cost; determining that it is insufficient to cover even a portion of their Madoff holdings, they decline to purchase it.
    •2002: Sterling Stamos, an investment fund created expressly for Sterling Equities to diversify away from Bernie Madoff, is created, with Chuck Klein serving on the investment committee.
    •October 2003–June 2005: At Madoff's request, Saul Katz and Sterling Stamos work to create a firewall between Katz and Madoff for the express purpose of keeping Sterling Stamos’s investments with Madoff secret from the SEC.
    •October 2003–March 2005: Sterling Stamos’s due diligence reveals a high probability of fraud in Bayou Superfund, identifying the exact same types of problems that exist with Bernie Madoff. Sterling Stamos, acting on these red flags, redeems its entire investment and eventually settles with the bankruptcy trustee for 100 percent of profit and 44 percent of principal in a suit alleging Sterling Stamos had sufficient red flags to reach the “inquiry notice” threshold.
    •May 2004: To secure a $54 million loan from Madoff, Katz and Wilpon sign a document falsely characterizing the money as an investment by Madoff's wife, Ruth.
    •2007–2008: In the wake of the financial crisis, Saul Katz asks Sterling Stamos to invest with Madoff, whose “investment” returns are still positive; he is denied. In December 2008, Katz informs Peter Stamos that Sterling Equities intends to withdraw most or all money from its funds from Sterling Stamos and invest with Madoff instead.
    •December 11, 2008: Bernie Madoff arrested on suspicion of fraud.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    I dont think anyone would disagree that the Wilpons held Madoff in such high esteem that they ignored sound financial strategy to diversify their assets. As Ive stated all along, they were blinded by loyalty. If some people want to classify that as "greed" -- okay thats a matter of perspective.
    It's a perspective that is getting harder for even their most supportive fans to deny, they were only loyal to money. They were loyal to the double digit returns, and that's it.

    They only held Madoff in high esteem because he made them a ton of money, and was enough money that they were able to ignore the stink of dirty money.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metsfan1963 View Post
    It's a perspective that is getting harder for even their most supportive fans to deny, they were only loyal to money. They were loyal to the double digit returns, and that's it.

    They only held Madoff in high esteem because he made them a ton of money, and was enough money that they were able to ignore the stink of dirty money.
    And...aren't they running a business? Why should they go to someone who is second-rate?

    Put yourself in a similar situation where trust leads you down the wrong path.


    • You go to a doctor and have surgery. Afterwards, you feel great. You recommend him to friends, family and business associates.
    • You go to the doctor a second time for a check up and a cough. He makes a recommendation, advises treatment, and you feel great.
    • Many of your friends catch the flu even though they had shots. You visit your doctor and he prescribes blue-green algae. You try it and don't catch the flu.
    • Someone whispers in your ear that the doctor is a quack, and that blue green algae is a scam.
    • The USFDA investigates claims made by the product, but finds no reason to take it off the market, and you continue to use your doctor as your PCP. You buy large quantities of blue-green algae to maintain your health while all your friends keep getting sick.
    • One day your doctor is arrested for practicing without a license, and you discover that blue-green algae was in fact snake oil all along. All the vials in your medicine closet are worthless.
    Last edited by Dugmet; 02-21-2012 at 03:46 PM.
    Baseball Maverick: How Sandy Alderson Revolutionized Baseball and Revived the Mets
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  9. #9
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    Trustee Says Mets Saw Madoff as House Money
    The trustee, Irving H. Picard, asserts that Katz and Wilpon took out bank loans just to invest the borrowed money with Madoff, confident that their returns would be better than the interest on the loan. That was the vig at work.

    Katz and Wilpon, according to the trustee, structured player contracts to draw out the timing of their payments. They would then invest the money they owed the players with Madoff and make a profit across the many years of the contract payments. That, too, was the vig.

    The men, real estate moguls, also invested the excess proceeds from mortgages they refinanced with Madoff’s brokerage operation on the belief that his returns would be greater than their mortgage payments. That was the vig.

    Finally, instead of paying disability insurance premiums for key players on the team, the trustee says, Katz and Wilpon put the money into an account — called “Saul’s cookie jar” — to pay injured players. That, as well, was the vig.

    At least that is what Katz called it. A senior financial officer with the Mets called it, less colorfully, the “Madoff effect.”

    The trustee, in final legal papers filed in advance of his coming civil case against the men, says that by the early 2000s, Wilpon and Katz had “become hooked on Madoff’s returns,” after more than 15 years of investing with him. He added: “They were so expectant of those steady, 10 to 14 percent returns that they began to budget them into their business plans.”

    Vig, or vigorish, is a gambling term, meaning the money a bookmaker collects on every bet taken, regardless of the outcome — a kind of dependable handling fee.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/sp...says.html?_r=2


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  10. #10
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    I think they were warned about Madoff but did not want to believe it. For someone like Fred and Katz they should have known someting was wrong with what Madoff was telling them. Like the saying goes "if it's to good to be true then it is probably not true.

    I hope they have to fork over 300 million in the law suit. That way they will have to sell the team. Which most Mets fans hope they do, including me.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    And...aren't they running a business? Why should they go to someone who is second-rate?

    Put yourself in a similar situation where trust leads you down the wrong path.


    • You go to a doctor and have surgery. Afterwards, you feel great. You recommend him to friends, family and business associates.
    • You go to the doctor a second time for a check up and a cough. He makes a recommendation, advises treatment, and you feel great.
    • Many of your friends catch the flu even though they had shots. You visit your doctor and he prescribes blue-green algae. You try it and don't catch the flu.
    • Someone whispers in your ear that the doctor is a quack, and that blue green algae is a scam.
    • The USFDA investigates claims made by the product, but finds no reason to take it off the market, and you continue to use your doctor as your PCP. You buy large quantities of blue-green algae to maintain your health while all your friends keep getting sick.
    • One day your doctor is arrested for practicing without a license, and you discover that blue-green algae was in fact snake oil all along. All the vials in your medicine closet are worthless.
    Only you can compare a desire to be wealthy, with a desire to be healthy.

    The Wilpons were rich men doing what ever it took to get richer, you act like it's the same as a sick person doing what ever it took to be well.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metsfan1963 View Post
    Only you can compare a desire to be wealthy, with a desire to be healthy.

    The Wilpons were rich men doing what ever it took to get richer, you act like it's the same as a sick person doing what ever it took to be well.
    My point was about trust, and how trust is often blind. The comparison of wealth to health was incidental. An analogy could be drawn to any industry or service.

    Why is it a "crime" to earn money in this country? Fred Wilpon is a self-made millionaire. That makes him a crook or a disingenuous person or a snake? Not by law—but for some reason people seem to be angry at him for trying to maximize his earning potential and power. If he were an uncharitable man, I might have cause to think less of him, but that is not the case. He's well-respected (except by the majority of Mets fans) for good reason. Even Howard Megdal in his book, Wilpon's Folly acknowledges that Fred is well-liked. Why is that? It's probably because he is a fair-minded, generous, and kind person—or he buys the booze and tells good jokes at parties.
    Last edited by Dugmet; 02-21-2012 at 06:28 PM.
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  13. #13
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Magoo View Post
    ?
    Baseball Maverick: How Sandy Alderson Revolutionized Baseball and Revived the Mets
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metsfan1963 View Post
    It's a perspective that is getting harder for even their most supportive fans to deny, they were only loyal to money. They were loyal to the double digit returns, and that's it.

    They only held Madoff in high esteem because he made them a ton of money, and was enough money that they were able to ignore the stink of dirty money.
    If this is all true, than Picard's case (aside from the $83M) will be thrown out within about a month.

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