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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmj365 View Post
    Rookie? Nonsense? I may not have posted as much as you guys, but I know football. Peyton is a great Regular season performer. Eli has demonstrated that he is a very good postseason performer. I personally want to win championships versus regular season games. Don't give me passer ratings or statistical jargon. The eyeball test shows Peyton has a propensity to shrink in big moments. Eli rises to the occasion. This is a legit question. Unless you like losing to the Titans at home in a divisional playoff game('99), @Dolphins wilcard('00), @Jets wilcard('02), @NE ('03 & '04) and Pitt at home in ('05). The level of playoff futility falls directly at his feet. Eli may have struck oil, but he did it twice and made it look easy. I love watching playoff performers rise up. He's done that. If you would have told me this in August, I would have thought you were crazy. Not now.
    if you are hoenstly saying peyton isn't as good as eli, then this is clearly not true
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  2. #32
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    lets put it this way. eli had a great yea rhti s year, and peyton didn;t even plauy, yet we were debating where Peyton deserved the MVP...................


    Eli may have 2 superbowls to peytons one (once again a function of the team), but Peyton is the only qb ever to have 4 MVPs. if we are saying going forward who's better thats one thing, but the better overall quaterback? thats peyton by a landslide. only a giants fan would disagree
    30 Team Stadium Checklist: 10 to go

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade>Kobe View Post
    This type of thinking is incredibly flawed. It takes for granted that one's team will play well enough around them to keep them in a position to be able to win it in the fourth.

    Eli Manning on a mediocre team = 0 4QC, and no "clutch".

    But we continue to ignore this in American sports because it is more fun.
    So you'd call a team that had one of the worse defenses and worst running games above mediocre would you?

    This year he had 7 4th Quarter comebacks on a team that is certainly not a good team historically.

    But you continue to ignore this because you hate Eli. I have seen it over the 5 Eli related threads currenlty on PSD, I have shown you fact after fact, stat after stat to suggest Eli isn't some Trent Dilfer who is riding one of the greatest defenses ever yet you continue to hate.

    Just let it go. He just outplayed Tom Brady in the Superbowl, give the man some effing props

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    So you'd call a team that had one of the worse defenses and worst running games above mediocre would you?

    This year he had 7 4th Quarter comebacks on a team that is certainly not a good team historically.

    But you continue to ignore this because you hate Eli. I have seen it over the 5 Eli related threads currenlty on PSD, I have shown you fact after fact, stat after stat to suggest Eli isn't some Trent Dilfer who is riding one of the greatest defenses ever yet you continue to hate.

    Just let it go. He just outplayed Tom Brady in the Superbowl, give the man some effing props
    Do me a favor, will you? Shut up, and never talk to me again. Sound good? I'm ignoring you, so please waste your time and never address me again, because I don't carea bout anything you have to say, because you've yet to say a single thing in any thread that was worth caring about.

    You fail to grasp any information, and any argument. Please, until you learn how to read, and comprehend reading, don't ever imagine addressing me again.

    I don't hate Eli. I like Eli, a lot. I've said so 100x. The Giants are my favorite NFC East team, and I cheered for them to win Sunday, and I was ecstatic when they did.

    I do not pretend Eli is "some Trent Dilfer". I have said - over and over again - that he is a top 7-8 QB in the national football league, and that is not something to scoff at.

    How many more times do you want me to say it? Will you understand it if I say it 200 times? I doubt it. I do not bash players I hate, and I do not prop up the ones I like. I like Eli a lot, and hate Tom Brady with every bone in my body. Yet I've been very clear. Brady = 1/2, Eli = 7/8.

    What I have said is that Eli is not better than Tony Romo or Ben Roethlisberger, and is not even near the same level as the Elite4. I have never hated, at all.

    What I have said is that Eli's "clutchness" and Eli's 4thQ play is not anywhere near as important as people make it out to be and that it is also the product of necessity do to some very poor 2nd and 3rd quarter play.

    But I wouldn't expect you to actually read what I've said, or to actually understand it. Good bye. You have proven time and time again that picking my nose is a better use of my time than trying to converse with you. You are a troll. Goodbye.
    Last edited by WadeKobe; 02-07-2012 at 02:07 PM.

  5. #35
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    Wade > Kobe should change his name to valade16 > wade>kobe,

    because that is what happened.

    And if by goodbye you mean you will cease to discredit and discount Eli in Eli threads then goodbye, however if you continue to come into these threads with the same weak arguments for why Eli isn't ahead of Romo then I will continue to show the error of your reasoning.

    Otherwise I shall leave you alone. I believe that's more than fair.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Wade > Kobe should change his name to valade16 > wade>kobe,

    because that is what happened.

    And if by goodbye you mean you will cease to discredit and discount Eli in Eli threads then goodbye, however if you continue to come into these threads with the same weak arguments for why Eli isn't ahead of Romo then I will continue to show the error of your reasoning.

    Otherwise I shall leave you alone. I believe that's more than fair.
    You troll so hard, but I won't bite.

    You didn't best me at all. You said I do something and say something which I haven't done, and haven't said.

    How does that win an argument? Last I checked, it's called a "straw man". lol. You never cease to amaze me with your trolling prowess.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade>Kobe View Post
    You troll so hard, but I won't bite.

    You didn't best me at all. You said I do something and say something which I haven't done, and haven't said.

    How does that win an argument? Last I checked, it's called a "straw man". lol. You never cease to amaze me with your trolling prowess.
    Your right in that I have been unduly harsh on you, it's just comical after the season that Eli has had including the playoff run that you continue to put him below Romo.

    Honestly, if both retired right now, would you say Romo was better given his entire body of work thus far vs. Eli's entire body of work?

    Really?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    So you'd call a team that had one of the worse defenses and worst running games above mediocre would you?

    This year he had 7 4th Quarter comebacks on a team that is certainly not a good team historically.

    But you continue to ignore this because you hate Eli. I have seen it over the 5 Eli related threads currenlty on PSD, I have shown you fact after fact, stat after stat to suggest Eli isn't some Trent Dilfer who is riding one of the greatest defenses ever yet you continue to hate.

    Just let it go. He just outplayed Tom Brady in the Superbowl, give the man some effing props
    Dude, shut up, seriously, you're making yourself look like an idiot.

    First of all, you want to use the argument that he is on a mediocre team, and at the same time that he is a 2 time superbowl champ.

    Well NEWSFLASH, during BOTH playoff runs, his defense played lights out, specifically his defensive line. You could argue that the Giants d-line is the reason for BOTH of their superbowls.So that argument gets thrown right out of the water.

    Secondly, he didn't outplay tom brady. Eli went up against one of the worst defenses in the league, while Brady went up against one of the best, and don't try to say they weren't one of the best, because they are, they finally got healthy in the post season and showed how amazing they are.

    Yet despite this, they still put up comparable numbers, and even furthermore than that, Brady got screwed by his wide recievers dropping AT LEAST 4 catches in the last two drives that anyone with a mind would point to being the first thing that caused them the loss.

    Lastly, only a complete fool would ever even consider taking Eli over Peyton.

    Peyton has played lights out his entire career, among the best to ever play. Meanwhile, eli has a good season here and there, and awful seasons as well. He has one good season, and people want to try to consider him better than Peyton?

    And I mean, you can't even use the argument that Eli is on a worse team. Look at what happened to the Colts this year without Peyton. He showed this year that he carries that offense, Wayne is a scrub without him, he MADE wayne what he is.

    But what I find hilarious more than anything, is that people want to judge QBs by their superbowl wins, which is ridiculous. QBs don't play all 22 positions, you could be the best ever and still not win, you can't control the entire game.

    Let me lay out a scenario for you. Eli played the EXACT same game he played today, and the patriots get the ball back like the did with 1 minute to go. The drive plays out the same, except on the last hail mary pass, gronk manages to make the diving catch for the football and the Pats win.

    Right now, today, no one would be arguing about how good eli is, no one would be saying he's as good or better than Peyton, no one would be saying he should be going to the HoF, but why? Why the change? His numbers, play, his everthing would be the exact same. He wouldn't be ANY different as a player, they would have lost because of his defense in that scenario, he put them in a position to win, and his defense lost it, yet Brady is the one with the glory, and Eli isn't, because of one catch?

    Do you not realize the stupidity in that?
    Last edited by basch152; 02-07-2012 at 03:46 PM.

  9. #39
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    **** I wanted the giants to lose so ******** like this didn't happen.

    Peyton 100/100 times.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by basch152 View Post
    Dude, shut up, seriously, you're making yourself look like an idiot.

    First of all, you want to use the argument that he is on a mediocre team, and at the same time that he is a 2 time superbowl champ.

    Well NEWSFLASH, during BOTH playoff runs, his defense played lights out, specifically his defensive line. You could argue that the Giants d-line is the reason for BOTH of their superbowls.So that argument gets thrown right out of the water.

    Secondly, he didn't outplay tom brady. Eli went up against one of the worst defenses in the league, while Brady went up against one of the best, and don't try to say they weren't one of the best, because they are, they finally got healthy in the post season and showed how amazing they are.

    Yet despite this, they still put up comparable numbers, and even furthermore than that, Brady got screwed by his wide recievers dropping AT LEAST 4 catches in the last two drives that anyone with a mind would point to being the first thing that caused them the loss.
    I'm going to cutoff that last half of your post because your arguing something that I'm not in disagreement with. I would take Peyton Manning over Eli Manning 100 times out of 100. Anybody would and should.

    That being said, NEWSFLASH: During both playoff Runs Eli played "lights out". He had over a 100+ rating in 5 of the 8 games, he threw 15 TDs and 2 INTs, completed 63.1% of his passes, a 96.6 QB rating and had 5 Game winning drives. That is lights out play. But yes, your right, he had nothing to do with those Superbowls, it was all the defense

    To put it in perspective his worst QB rating for those games was a 72, Brady's was a 57. Brady also had a 66. And a 70... Eli actually played more consistent in his Superbowl runs than Brady has. Now does that make him better? NO. A) because it's a much smaller sample size than Brady and B) because Brady has playoff success and regular season dominance, but it does show just how good Eli is playing.

    A further illustration of that is showing you that during Eli's 2 Superbowl runs the Giants offense averaged 23.3 PPG and their D surrendered 15.1 PPG. During Tom Brady's Superbowl runs the Pats offense scored 24.6 PPG and their defense surrendered 17 PPG. So Eli's D has had to carry him so much more than Brady's because they let up 1.9 PPG less and the Giants score 1.3 PPG less

    As to the last part, yes, Brady went up against a better defense, however he threw a costly INT (the only TO of the game, don't tell me that didn't greatly affect the outcome) and although his WRs did drop passes, specifically on Welker's drop, Brady threw it slightly behind him.

    Is that a catch Welker should've made? Yes. Does that take away from the fact that Brady was slightly off on the throw? No. Because both are true. Now contrast that to the throw that Eli threw to Manningham. That was absolutely perfect placement on that football. It was still a great catch, but Eli made it as easy as that catch can possibly be.

    In conclusion, stop acting like Eli is trent freaking Dilfer and give the guy some credit

  11. #41
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    If they were the same age, both healthy, and I'm taking one to be my franchise QB? Peyton.

    But, when you look at it now? Eli is healthy, Peyton is not. Eli is 31, Peyton is like 36. Peyton has 9-10 post season record, Eli has like a 9-3 record.

    If it's 1 game must win I take Eli.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebbs View Post
    **** I wanted the giants to lose so ******** like this didn't happen.

    Peyton 100/100 times.
    Regardless of the outcome, something stupid was going to come out of it. If the Pats win, then we see tons of "Brady is easily the best ever" threads. Hell, you choose any playoff team, or even any team from this year, and there would've been some absolutely ******** threads going on. Of all the QBs out there, only Peyton, Rivers and Romo winning the Super Bowl would probably not spawn some outrageously stupid thread in their honor(but still might).
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    one guy doesn't take you from yearly playoff conteder to the worst team in football

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladTheImpaler View Post
    Regardless of the outcome, something stupid was going to come out of it. If the Pats win, then we see tons of "Brady is easily the best ever" threads. Hell, you choose any playoff team, or even any team from this year, and there would've been some absolutely ******** threads going on. Of all the QBs out there, only Peyton, Rivers and Romo winning the Super Bowl would probably not spawn some outrageously stupid thread in their honor(but still might).
    Rivers and Romo might spawn the most threads! Since the knock on both of them is can't win in the playoffs.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Your right in that I have been unduly harsh on you, it's just comical after the season that Eli has had including the playoff run that you continue to put him below Romo.

    Honestly, if both retired right now, would you say Romo was better given his entire body of work thus far vs. Eli's entire body of work?

    Really?
    Romo: 77 GS, 47-30 (61%), 64.5 completion %, 20834 yards, 149 TDs, 5.7 TD%, 72 INT, 2.8 INT%, 96.9 QB rating, 13 4th quarter comebacks, 14 GW drives, 118 Rate+

    Eli: 119 GS, 69-50 (58%), 58.4 completion %, 27579 yards, 185 TDs, 4.7 TD%, 129 INT, 3.3 INT%, 82.1 QB rating, 20 4th quarter comebacks, 24 GW drives, 99 Rate+ (and 100 is average)

    Eli has had a longer career, so he's accumulated more yards and TDs, but Romo has been way more efficient as a QB throughout their careers


    Soon...

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by carson005 View Post
    Rivers and Romo might spawn the most threads! Since the knock on both of them is can't win in the playoffs.
    They'd probably be the least ridiculous, though. With any other QB there'd be stuff about how they are the greatest ever, or one of the best ever, or best now when they're definitely not in the conversation, but with those three, it'd more or less be a lot of "Hey, they don't suck as much as we think".
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    one guy doesn't take you from yearly playoff conteder to the worst team in football

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