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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by krisxsong View Post
    He's not suddenly better, but the they are very close now.

    Big Ben has two rings, but so does Eli.

    Big Ben has had vastly better teammates over the years than Eli has had, and as you said teams win SBs not QBs.

    In his first SB, he was a joke. They still won, but he was so terrible and had no hand in that victory.

    Eli had a huge hand in both SB victories.

    Who's better? I don't know. Who would I rather have? Eli. And that part right there is because I am a Giants fan who hates the Steelers. If I were a Steelers fans I would rather have Big Ben.
    Still don't get why fans of NFC teams hate the Steelers, unless it's jealousy for being the most successful team of the modern era. Can't be Roethlisberger's rape or Harrison's hit since the hate was prominent before either of those controversies.

    I'm tired of people saying Roethlisberger's entire teams were great because his defense is usually tops in the league. It's pretty stupid.

    The Steelers wouldn't have won Super Bowl XL without him because of how he carried the team through the playoffs. His eight total touchdowns in those four playoff games were as many as Eli's entire playoff career prior to this postseason run. And he had that postseason run throwing to Hines Ward, who is a Hall of Famer but not for any pure receiving skills, Antwaan Randle El (ew) and Cedric Wilson (who?). Yeah he was bad in the actual Super Bowl, but they wouldn't have even been playing in it without him, and it's tough to win a game you're not playing in.

    This was Manning's best season. His 4900 yards is the only thing better than anything Roethlisberger's done.

    His career high of 31 touchdowns in 2010 is less than Roethlisberger's 32 in 2007. And Roethlisberger did that while throwing only 11 interceptions, not 25.

    Eli's career high of 62.3% completion in 2009 is lower than Roethlisberger's 63.2 this year, 66.6 in 2009, 65.3 in 2007, 62.7 in 2005 and 66.4 in 2004.

    Eli's career high of 8.4 this year is lower than Roethilsberger's 8.6 in 2009 and 8.9 in each of 2005 and 2004. Eli's career second place 7.9 in 2009 would be tied for fourth worst of Roethlisberger's career, behind 2004, 2005, 2009, 2010, and tied with 2011.

    Eli's career high in passer rating of 93.1 in 2009 is lower than Roethlisberger's 97 in 2010, 100.5 in 2009, 104.1 in 2007, 98.6 in 2005 and 98.1 in 2004.

    Roethlisberger is easily better across the board than Manning. And no, he has not played on better offenses throughout his career. Defense doesn't affect any of these statistics, believe it or not.

    Edit: Almost forgot to answer the thread question. Top 5 QB's, in order:

    1. Rodgers
    2. Brady
    3. Brees
    4. Peyton*
    5. Roethlisberger
    6. Eli*

    In case Peyton's not the same player coming back. Be happy I'm finally putting Eli above Romo. I do think Romo is better but I won't reward him for what I think he will do in hypothetical situations. Credit to Eli for finally earning a Super Bowl MVP as opposed to stealing Justin Tuck's from XLII.

    Edit Edit: Crap, Mr Haha's ban was lifted.
    Last edited by ring91013144043; 02-06-2012 at 05:15 PM.

  2. #47
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    When 95% of the people who say Eli is top 5 are giants fans, that should tell you something.

  3. #48
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    Rodgers
    Brady
    Brees
    Peyton
    Rivers
    Ben
    Romo
    Eli
    Shaub
    Stafford

    I gave a top 10 because I'm just so generous like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by krisxsong View Post
    Last 3 seasons.

    Brady

    2009. 65.7%, 4398 Yards, 28 TD(5%), 13 INT(2.3%), 11.9 Y/C.
    2010. 65.9%, 3900 Yards, 36 TD(7.3%), 4 INT(0.8%), 12 Y/C.
    2011. 65.6%, 5235 Yards, 39 TD(6.4%), 12 INT(2.0%), 13.1 Y/C.

    Brees

    2009. 70.6%, 4388 Yards, 34 TD(6.6%), 11 INT(2.1%), 12.1 Y/C.
    2010. 68.1%, 4620 Yards, 33 TD(5.0%), 22 INT(3.3%), 10.3 Y/C.
    2011. 71.2%, 5476 Yards, 46 TD(7.0%) 14 INT(2.1%), 11.7 Y/C.

    I would say Brees is better, and even if Brady is better Brady is not anywhere close to "No way Brees is better".
    Well I prefer my qb to be consistent, something drew brees isn't. Brees 2010 sticks out like a sore thumb. Brees has never had back to back great years. And of course lets not forget, Brady's worst year listed, 09, he was returning from a major knee injury. There's no doubt in my mind his 08-09 seasons would have at worst been like this year. With 08 being somewhere between his 07 and 2010 seasons. Of course that hypothetical, but very likely. Oh and check brees home and road splits. He was great on the road this year, but his overall numbers were inflated due to his home games. I believe his 09 was even worst when it comes to that. Until brees can consistently put up great seasons, for me he's no where close to Brady.

  5. #50
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    The rankings of QBs should just be the last 5 to win them in order.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    The rankings of QBs should just be the last 5 to win them in order.
    So Eli, Rodgers, brees, Ben and eli

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ring91013144043 View Post
    Still don't get why fans of NFC teams hate the Steelers, unless it's jealousy for being the most successful team of the modern era. Can't be Roethlisberger's rape or Harrison's hit since the hate was prominent before either of those controversies.

    I'm tired of people saying Roethlisberger's entire teams were great because his defense is usually tops in the league. It's pretty stupid.

    The Steelers wouldn't have won Super Bowl XL without him because of how he carried the team through the playoffs. His eight total touchdowns in those four playoff games were as many as Eli's entire playoff career prior to this postseason run. And he had that postseason run throwing to Hines Ward, who is a Hall of Famer but not for any pure receiving skills, Antwaan Randle El (ew) and Cedric Wilson (who?). Yeah he was bad in the actual Super Bowl, but they wouldn't have even been playing in it without him, and it's tough to win a game you're not playing in.

    This was Manning's best season. His 4900 yards is the only thing better than anything Roethlisberger's done.

    His career high of 31 touchdowns in 2010 is less than Roethlisberger's 32 in 2007. And Roethlisberger did that while throwing only 11 interceptions, not 25.

    Eli's career high of 62.3% completion in 2009 is lower than Roethlisberger's 63.2 this year, 66.6 in 2009, 65.3 in 2007, 62.7 in 2005 and 66.4 in 2004.

    Eli's career high of 8.4 this year is lower than Roethilsberger's 8.6 in 2009 and 8.9 in each of 2005 and 2004. Eli's career second place 7.9 in 2009 would be tied for fourth worst of Roethlisberger's career, behind 2004, 2005, 2009, 2010, and tied with 2011.

    Eli's career high in passer rating of 93.1 in 2009 is lower than Roethlisberger's 97 in 2010, 100.5 in 2009, 104.1 in 2007, 98.6 in 2005 and 98.1 in 2004.

    Roethlisberger is easily better across the board than Manning. And no, he has not played on better offenses throughout his career. Defense doesn't affect any of these statistics, believe it or not.

    Edit: Almost forgot to answer the thread question. Top 5 QB's, in order:

    1. Rodgers
    2. Brady
    3. Brees
    4. Peyton*
    5. Roethlisberger
    6. Eli*

    In case Peyton's not the same player coming back. Be happy I'm finally putting Eli above Romo. I do think Romo is better but I won't reward him for what I think he will do in hypothetical situations. Credit to Eli for finally earning a Super Bowl MVP as opposed to stealing Justin Tuck's from XLII.

    Edit Edit: Crap, Mr Haha's ban was lifted.
    To the first bolded, Defense absolutely can and does affect the QBs stats on their team. I can't believe you'd say that.

    To the second bolded At least your capable of admitting you were wrong about Eli this year (even if it is only temporary)...

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by krisxsong View Post
    1) Big Ben has had a better team around him and it's not even close. The Giants did have the best offensive line for a few years but that was a different Eli Manning. If we're talking about that Eli, then no Eli is nowhere near Big Ben.

    2) Both played in two SBs. Big Ben stunk in one of them, looked like Rex Grossman. Eli had two game winning drives on the biggest stage against the Patriots, one of the times need I mention on the brink of the Pats becoming football immortals.

    3) While both teams rely a ton on their QBs, the Giants rely on their QB a whole lot more and Big Ben lost to the Broncos. Yes Big Ben was hurt and he doesn't play defense but he did not have a good game. Note that if you're gonna give Big Ben a pass for his injury, you should give Eli extra credit in his 07 run for winning the SB while dislocating his throwing shoulder and not missing 1 game.

    An argument can be made for both.

    ben stunk in his first superbowl because he was in his first year. and don't give me the better team crap, eli was helped big time byt the fact that his teams have been holding their opponents in the superbowl runs under 20 points most of the time. there is no arguement for eli over ben. ben is better, and every bit of eivdence proves it aside from your hypthetical bull ****. ben hasn't looked nearly as bad in his playoff loses as eli has in the ones he lost either
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    ben stunk in his first superbowl because he was in his first year. and don't give me the better team crap, eli was helped big time byt the fact that his teams have been holding their opponents in the superbowl runs under 20 points most of the time. there is no arguement for eli over ben. ben is better, and every bit of eivdence proves it aside from your hypthetical bull ****. ben hasn't looked nearly as bad in his playoff loses as eli has in the ones he lost either
    I do find it funny that those that use the argument of how good Eli's team has been to discredit him are so quick to defend Big Ben when the exact same argument could be made, perhaps better since the Steelers have been a far superior team to the Giants overall during their tenures.

    That being said, Big Ben is better than Eli. He is every bit as clutch as Eli. Just watching the eyeball test, Big Ben can and does throw some of the most pinpoint accurate throws ever.

    My top 5 are:

    Rodgers
    Brady
    Brees
    Peyton

    Big Ben

    Followed by:

    Eli
    Romo
    Rivers

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    i have yet to hear any compelling arguement why eli is suddnel;y better than ben. please enlighten me there
    The Super Bowl is a function of a team and not an individual and if that is your argument then there is no way in hell that you can consider Rothlisberger a better QB than Eli..Eli has been better statistically the past few seasons..the one aspect of the Super Bowl that is a reflection of individual is how well you perform..Ben Rothlisberger has 2 Super Bowls 0 MVPs..Eli has 2 Super Bowls 2 MVPs..Rothlisberger didn't even throw a TD his first SB and the second one he made one play all game..all be it the biggest one of the game..Eli did what Ben did in his 2nd SB 2x(led game winning drives)..Hell Ben's teammate called him out for just managing games and expecting his defense to go and win it..now what reasons do you have for Ben being better(to date)

    Quote Originally Posted by krisxsong View Post
    Both played in two SBs. Big Ben stunk in one of them, looked like Rex Grossman. Eli had two game winning drives on the biggest stage against the Patriots, one of the times need I mention on the brink of the Pats becoming football immortals.
    No Ben played in 3 SBs and sucked in the first 2 and was Eli of 08 in the 3rd at best..maybe giving him more credit than deserved..hint James Harrison calling him out

    As for Tony Romo there is more to playing the QB position than stats and Eli excels at the things that you cant put a number on way more than Romo..and as for your stats argument TD:INT is flawed plain and simple..the SB is a facet of team play as well as tipped INTs(TD:INT)..dropped passes(completion %)..having the worse rush offense in the league but #6 in rush TDs(TD:INT)..please dont throw stats out there when they don't tell the full story..Eli could have easily threw the 12 TD difference between Giants 17 rush TD and Cowboys 5 giving Eli all of 41 TDs..see how easy stats could be flawed and misleading

    as for the top 5 if you are going to include P Manning when he didn't play then put him where he rightfully belongs..he was the best prior to being injured so if he maintains top 5 w/out playing then how can you move him down
    1) Peyton Manning
    2)Tom Brady
    3)Aaron Rodgers
    4)Drew Brees
    5)Eli Manning
    Eli Manning going for 2012-2013 NFL MVP

    not to mention this: http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/ima...ine=1328584116

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    To the first bolded, Defense absolutely can and does affect the QBs stats on their team. I can't believe you'd say that.

    To the second bolded At least your capable of admitting you were wrong about Eli this year (even if it is only temporary)...
    Thanks for not even bothering to argue with the main point of my post, that Roethilsberger is unquestionably better than Eli. That doesn't mean it isn't close, but it's not a photo finish or anything.

    However, in your later post, you try pointing out a double-standard that Roethlisberger "won his Super Bowls" whereas Eli "rode his defense." I personally have not seen that. I've seen the average fan say both rode their respective defenses and Giants fans say that Roethlisberger rode his defense while Eli won his Super Bowls. People with a clue and Steelers fans, generally one in the same , say that both quarterbacks contributed and understand that every championship team needs a good defense. But maybe we're not looking in the same spots.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosox3431 View Post
    When 95% of the people who say Eli is top 5 are giants fans, that should tell you something.
    There are only 4 posters on PSD who continue to argue agianst Eli being top 5 in every Eli thread are you..wade>kobe..pinstripe power..hugepatsfan..don't even have to look it up to know the famous 4..everybody else is a Steelers fan or Cowboys fan arguing for their QB..or a sad Eagles fan..I've even seen Cowboys say Eli is better..hell the owner said it..so I don't know where you get your 95% from
    Eli Manning going for 2012-2013 NFL MVP

    not to mention this: http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/ima...ine=1328584116

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYkillaPriest View Post
    There are only 4 posters on PSD who continue to argue agianst Eli being top 5 in every Eli thread are you..wade>kobe..pinstripe power..hugepatsfan..don't even have to look it up to know the famous 4..everybody else is a Steelers fan or Cowboys fan arguing for their QB..or a sad Eagles fan..I've even seen Cowboys say Eli is better..hell the owner said it..so I don't know where you get your 95% from
    There's an "Is Eli top 5?" thread with a poll, with about 60-40 in favor of Eli being outside of the top 5. And given that at least 8-10 of the 15 voters for Eli were Giants fans...I don't know if that brings the number to 95%, but the fact remains that it's very skewed and homeriffic.

    And I'm somewhat offended that you didn't include me in the list of people who tries to educate you Giants fans.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYkillaPriest View Post
    The Super Bowl is a function of a team and not an individual and if that is your argument then there is no way in hell that you can consider Rothlisberger a better QB than Eli..Eli has been better statistically the past few seasons..the one aspect of the Super Bowl that is a reflection of individual is how well you perform..Ben Rothlisberger has 2 Super Bowls 0 MVPs..Eli has 2 Super Bowls 2 MVPs..Rothlisberger didn't even throw a TD his first SB and the second one he made one play all game..all be it the biggest one of the game..Eli did what Ben did in his 2nd SB 2x(led game winning drives)..Hell Ben's teammate called him out for just managing games and expecting his defense to go and win it..now what reasons do you have for Ben being better(to date)



    No Ben played in 3 SBs and sucked in the first 2 and was Eli of 08 in the 3rd at best..maybe giving him more credit than deserved..hint James Harrison calling him out

    As for Tony Romo there is more to playing the QB position than stats and Eli excels at the things that you cant put a number on way more than Romo..and as for your stats argument TD:INT is flawed plain and simple..the SB is a facet of team play as well as tipped INTs(TD:INT)..dropped passes(completion %)..having the worse rush offense in the league but #6 in rush TDs(TD:INT)..please dont throw stats out there when they don't tell the full story..Eli could have easily threw the 12 TD difference between Giants 17 rush TD and Cowboys 5 giving Eli all of 41 TDs..see how easy stats could be flawed and misleading

    as for the top 5 if you are going to include P Manning when he didn't play then put him where he rightfully belongs..he was the best prior to being injured so if he maintains top 5 w/out playing then how can you move him down
    1) Peyton Manning
    2)Tom Brady
    3)Aaron Rodgers
    4)Drew Brees
    5)Eli Manning
    no, he hasn't actually.

    2011 passer rating: ben = 90.1 eli = 92.9
    2010 passer rating: ben = 97 eli = 85.3
    2009 passer rating: ben = 100.5 eli = 93.1

    in that span, ben has thrown 31 picks. eli threw 25 in one year alone
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYkillaPriest View Post
    There are only 4 posters on PSD who continue to argue agianst Eli being top 5 in every Eli thread are you..wade>kobe..pinstripe power..hugepatsfan..don't even have to look it up to know the famous 4..everybody else is a Steelers fan or Cowboys fan arguing for their QB..or a sad Eagles fan..I've even seen Cowboys say Eli is better..hell the owner said it..so I don't know where you get your 95% from
    and the ones argueing for him are almost exclusively giants fans. most non-giants fans simply don't join the arguement


    eli is not top 5, and thats not even remotely debateable because ben rothlisberger has him oin stats, intanglible, clutchness, success, etc. giants fans can think he;s top 5 all they want, its not true
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