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Thread: Tom Brady

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amare1 View Post
    Belichik was also pretty much nothing before Brady...

    Anyway, I already have Brady as the greatest of all time...Winning another superbowl just cements.

    The only way he is not the greatest of all time is if Tim Tebow beats him...then Tim Tebow is the greatest QB of all time...

    obviously bill.b wasnt the legend he is now..

    But he was well known by nfl people as having a GREAT defensive mind...There's a reason the patriots were willing too give up a 1st round pick too get him here..which is a steep price



  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by utl768 View Post
    another patriots thread? and to answer the question no

    not in this era where the defensive rules have been dumbed down so much
    The guy that wants Brady to die is going to say that Brady can't be considered the greatest? No way.

    5th all time in TD's, most TD's in a season (I'm sure it'll be broken sometime soon), 16-0 regular season, 3 Super Bowls, 2 Super Bowl MVP's, 2 league MVP's (only unanimous MVP ever), winningest coach/QB combo ever, most Postseason consecutive wins (10), most consecutive wins, most consecutive wins at home, highest TD to INT ratio in a season ever, highest win % of all time.

    Yeah, I'd say that those alone make him an all time great. Another Super Bowl would just cement everything most people already know.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tragedy View Post
    The guy that wants Brady to die is going to say that Brady can't be considered the greatest? No way.

    5th all time in TD's, most TD's in a season (I'm sure it'll be broken sometime soon), 16-0 regular season, 3 Super Bowls, 2 Super Bowl MVP's, 2 league MVP's (only unanimous MVP ever), winningest coach/QB combo ever, most Postseason consecutive wins (10), most consecutive wins, most consecutive wins at home, highest TD to INT ratio in a season ever, highest win % of all time.

    Yeah, I'd say that those alone make him an all time great. Another Super Bowl would just cement everything most people already know.
    What he said made no sense anyways, the defensive rules changing don't change the difficulty of winning rings or winning games.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    What he said made no sense anyways, the defensive rules changing don't change the difficulty of winning rings or winning games.
    Exactly, When it's all Said and Done, The Best QB of all time for me would Be Brady and Montana Tied LOL for 1st, no 1 a or 1 b, Just tied. Maybe I'm just being a Homer

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos_Sports4Life View Post
    * YAC isn't just the reciever...You do realize hitting a reciever in stride will lead too great YAC...right??

    * Early on he would have put up better numbers with better options. Brady was stuck with average talent playing outdoors in new england while manning was playing with allpro talent in domes.

    Brady still AVERAGED 25.8 td's/13.2 picks during this time while passing for 3,743 yrds per season while earning a few probowls.

    His best options during these seasons:

    Deion Branch (2002-2005)
    - 0 Pro bowls
    - 0 1000+ yrd recieving seasons
    - 0 10+ Td seasons

    Troy Brown (2001-2007)
    - 1x probowl
    - 1x 1000 yrd reciever
    - No seasons with more than 6 td's

    Do you think he all of a sudden turned into a record breaking/mvp type qb from 06 too 07? NO...He finally had weapons manning had a whole career
    I love the Pats defense about the Colts having all star receivers, so how many have left the Colts and been all star receivers? Stokely did not look so great after he left the Colts. Harrison was a great receiver, but he has been gone for several years. Branch didn't do too bad for himself after he left the Pats and his performance barely even dropped off, if even did. How about the fact that the Pats have always had a great offensive line. A luxury Manning didn't have in his few seasons and last couple of seasons with the Colts. Brady always has all day to throw the ball and when he doesn't things don't work out. It's the reason the Giants beat them in the superbowl and the Ravens beat them in the playoffs a couple of years ago. Manning had absolutely no protection last year and still managed a decent season 33 TD/17 int./ 4,700 yrds/ 66.3 comp%(higher than Brady's last year). Sure he had quite a few interceptions, but like I said no protection, forced to throw the ball quick and getting hit as he was throwing. Brady's numbers would look much worse without protection. I would take mediocre receivers over a poor offensive line any day of the week.

    Another thing is Peyton has always had more pressure on him, because the Colts never had an elite defense. With the Patriots Tom Brady didn't have to win the game by himself, especially in the years you are referring to, they had one of the best defenses in the league. It was okay to only score a field goal or go fourth and out once in a while. Manning has always tried to score on every drive, because he pretty much needs to, his team is that bad.
    Last edited by Corndog; 01-11-2012 at 04:22 AM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corndog View Post
    I love the Pats defense about the Colts having all star receivers, so how many have left the Colts and been all star receivers? Stokely did not look so great after he left the Colts. Harrison was a great receiver, but he has been gone for several years. Branch didn't do too bad for himself after he left the Pats and his performance barely even dropped off, if even did. How about the fact that the Pats have always had a great offensive line. A luxury Manning didn't have in his few seasons and last couple of seasons with the Colts. Brady always has all day to throw the ball and when he doesn't things don't work out. It's the reason the Giants beat them in the superbowl and the Ravens beat them in the playoffs a couple of years ago. Manning had absolutely no protection last year and still managed a decent season 33 TD/17 int./ 4,700 yrds/ 66.3 comp%(higher than Brady's last year). Sure he had quite a few interceptions, but like I said no protection, forced to throw the ball quick and getting hit as he was throwing. Brady's numbers would look much worse without protection. I would take mediocre receivers over a poor offensive line any day of the week.

    Another thing is Peyton has always had more pressure on him, because the Colts never had an elite defense. With the Patriots Tom Brady didn't have to win the game by himself, especially in the years you are referring to, they had one of the best defenses in the league. It was okay to only score a field goal or go fourth and out once in a while. Manning has always tried to score on every drive, because he pretty much needs to, his team is that bad.
    Manning sucked the year they won the Superbowl. If it wasn't for his defence he would have no rings.
    Eat Lobster

  7. #97
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    Ironic but Brady and the Patriots did a whole bunch of the heavy lifting for Indy the year they went all the way.
    If N.E. doesn't upset the Chargers in San Diego in the Divisional Round then the Colts don't play the AFC title game at home one week later. They would've been on the road against Tomlinson, Michael Turner, Darren Sproles and a team that ran for 200 yards a game.
    A flat-out bad match up for a team like Indianapolis. My guess is that's a game they would have lost.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportfan6197 View Post
    how about vice versa?

    Would Rodgers be as good without his WR's and coach

    Would Brees be as good without his dome and WR's?

    Would Manning he as good without Marvin and Dungy?

    Would Young be as good as without TO and Rice?

    Stop making excuses, he shouldn't be falted for landing in the right place
    Dungy was a horrible coach and Manning made him. Dungy couldn't win in Tampa with a great team and it took Gruden going there for that team to finally win. Then Dungy came to Indy and they couldn't win either.

    Dungy is the most overrated coach of all time. Manning made him.

    The fact is that Manning would be this good anywhere. Would his stats be quite as good? Probably not without the dome, but they'd still be the best of this era. The question is, how would Manning's playoff winning have looked in a different environment, with good defenses?

    Who knows.

    I just don't know why people don't look at defenses when comparing Brady/Montana to Manning/Marino. It doesn't mean you have to give Manning or Marino the nod. Not at all. But to not recognize that Brady and Montana never won without an elite defense, and that Marino and Manning very rarely had elite defenses, just seems dishonest.

    Also, to talk about TD:INT ratio without talking about the defense and how often they played from behind is also sort of irresponsible. QB's throw more INTs when playing from behind, and throw more INTs when the team doesn't trust their defense. That is simply reality.

    Like I said, this doesn't have to change someone's opinion, but it simply never even gets brought up.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amare1 View Post
    Belichik was also pretty much nothing before Brady...

    Anyway, I already have Brady as the greatest of all time...Winning another superbowl just cements.
    The only way he is not the greatest of all time is if Tim Tebow beats him...then Tim Tebow is the greatest QB of all time...
    THIS is what I'm talking about. Brady is already the greatest of all time?

    You clearly have no appreciation for the history of the game nor the amazing things that Quarterbacks did before 2000.

  10. #100
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    Really folks this gets silly. There are 20 or so quarterbacks that were perfect for the moment and situation they were given. Most of the greats are linked with one coach or one system. Have you noticed how no QB has ever won a Superbowl for two different teams? Hell I can only think of Warner and Morton. Thats because that's how it works... A great QB gets the right system and players around them, they learn to play in that system and they would not be as good if you interchanged them cause they all had great systems built around them.

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  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Really folks this gets silly. There are 20 or so quarterbacks that were perfect for the moment and situation they were given. Most of the greats are linked with one coach or one system. Have you noticed how no QB has ever won a Superbowl for two different teams? Hell I can only think of Warner and Morton. Thats because that's how it works... A great QB gets the right system and players around them, they learn to play in that system and they would not be as good if you interchanged them cause they all had great systems built around them.
    This is what I simply don't get. People blast certain players for being a "System QB". What the **** does that even mean? The Patriots and Brady have created a certain style that fits our receivers, running backs, offensive line, and quarterback. It's that simple.

    You can't just remove an elite quarterback from that team, throw him somewhere else, and say "Okay, throw for 5,000 yards in this system, now". That's not how it works. You build around a good QB, finding his strengths and weaknesses. The Saints have done that with Drew Brees.

    If you take Tom Brady and put him on Denver next season, Tom Brady sucks. Does that mean he's a "system QB"? It means that every team has certain plays, calls, and players for their team. Denver is set up for Tebow to succeed. Tebow could probably not succeed on a team that has Tom Brady plays, just like Tom Brady could not play on a team that has Tim Tebow plays. It's really that simple.

    I really think the "system QB" stuff is dumb. Who the hell cares? For what Tom Brady does in our system, he's a perfect fit. It's that simple.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corndog View Post
    I love the Pats defense about the Colts having all star receivers, so how many have left the Colts and been all star receivers? Stokely did not look so great after he left the Colts. Harrison was a great receiver, but he has been gone for several years. Branch didn't do too bad for himself after he left the Pats and his performance barely even dropped off, if even did. How about the fact that the Pats have always had a great offensive line. A luxury Manning didn't have in his few seasons and last couple of seasons with the Colts. Brady always has all day to throw the ball and when he doesn't things don't work out. It's the reason the Giants beat them in the superbowl and the Ravens beat them in the playoffs a couple of years ago. Manning had absolutely no protection last year and still managed a decent season 33 TD/17 int./ 4,700 yrds/ 66.3 comp%(higher than Brady's last year). Sure he had quite a few interceptions, but like I said no protection, forced to throw the ball quick and getting hit as he was throwing. Brady's numbers would look much worse without protection. I would take mediocre receivers over a poor offensive line any day of the week.

    Another thing is Peyton has always had more pressure on him, because the Colts never had an elite defense. With the Patriots Tom Brady didn't have to win the game by himself, especially in the years you are referring to, they had one of the best defenses in the league. It was okay to only score a field goal or go fourth and out once in a while. Manning has always tried to score on every drive, because he pretty much needs to, his team is that bad.

    * The patriots went 13-3 with the 31st ranked defense...Brady does fine with little defensive help lol

    * Harrison/Reggie NEVER left the colts, so you can't really use that argument. EVERYONE knows they were all pro recievers even the COLTS KNEW..Which is why wayne's last deal he recieved 6 yrs/39 mill..And Harrison was also paid good..

    Also Reggie had 75 catches/960 yrds this season with absolute bums throwing him the ball..Pretty good huh??

    Arguing Who had more offensive talent before 07 is LAUGHABLE...

    Harrison..

    Averaged 84.77 receptions per season, which is second to the all time record

    held by Sterling Sharpe who averaged 85 receptions per season. He had

    previously been averaging 93 per season until 2007, where he missed the

    majority of games with a knee injury, resulting in a 20 reception season.

    4th most touchdown receptions in a decade (95) 20002009

    3rd most receiving yards per game throughout a career (76.7 yds/game)

    2nd most receiving yards in a decade (10,439) 20002009

    Holds the NFL record for receptions in a single season with 143, set in 2002.

    Most receptions in a 2 season period (252), 20012002; 3 season period (
    354), 20002002; 4 season period (469), 19992002; 5 season period (563), 19992003; 6 season period (649), 19992004; 7 season period (731), 19992005; 8 season period (826), 19992006; 9 season period (885), 19982006; 10 season period (958), 19972006; 11 season period (1,022), 19962006.

    Most receiving yards in a 4 season period (6,322), 19992002; 5 season period (7,594), 19992003.

    Most games with at least 8 receptions (51), 9 receptions (32), 11 receptions (12), 12 receptions (8), 13 receptions (4)

    Most games with at least 14 receptions (2)-tied with Brandon Marshall, Jerry Rice, Jason Witten, Jimmy Smith, Kellen Winslow

    Most consecutive games with at least 6 receptions (16) and 9 receptions (6)

    Most consecutive seasons with at least 5 touchdowns (11) shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Cris Carter, Tim Brown

    Most consecutive seasons with at least 6 touchdowns (11) shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson

    Most consecutive seasons with at least 5 touchdown receptions (11) shared
    with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Cris Carter, Tim Brown

    Most consecutive seasons with at least 6 touchdown receptions (11) shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson

    Most consecutive seasons with at least 10 touchdown receptions (8)

    Most consecutive seasons with at least 11 touchdown receptions (4)-tied with Lance Alworth, Art Powell

    Most consecutive seasons with at least 14 touchdown receptions (2)-tied with Jerry Rice

    Consecutive seasons with 1,400+ receiving yards (4); 19992002

    Consecutive seasons with 100+ receptions (4)

    Consecutive seasons with 82+ receptions (8); 19992006.
    Most games in a single season (2002) with at least 6 receptions (15), 7 receptions (12), 8 receptions (12), 9 receptions (10), 11 receptions (5).
    3rd most games in a single season with 10+ receptions (6). Wes Welker and Andre Johnson have 7.

    Only player with 16 career games with double digit receptions for one team



  13. #103
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    ^^ Is this an argument FOR or AGAINST manning??

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos_Sports4Life View Post
    * The patriots went 13-3 with the 31st ranked defense...Brady does fine with little defensive help lol
    Brady's an absolute beast now, I don't think anyone can argue that. But he's been like this for about 4 years, the rest of his career he's just been a pretty good qb. The GOAT question will never have an agreed upon answer, since different people value different attributes more.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tragedy View Post
    This is what I simply don't get. People blast certain players for being a "System QB". What the **** does that even mean? The Patriots and Brady have created a certain style that fits our receivers, running backs, offensive line, and quarterback. It's that simple.

    You can't just remove an elite quarterback from that team, throw him somewhere else, and say "Okay, throw for 5,000 yards in this system, now". That's not how it works. You build around a good QB, finding his strengths and weaknesses. The Saints have done that with Drew Brees.

    If you take Tom Brady and put him on Denver next season, Tom Brady sucks. Does that mean he's a "system QB"? It means that every team has certain plays, calls, and players for their team. Denver is set up for Tebow to succeed. Tebow could probably not succeed on a team that has Tom Brady plays, just like Tom Brady could not play on a team that has Tim Tebow plays. It's really that simple.

    I really think the "system QB" stuff is dumb. Who the hell cares? For what Tom Brady does in our system, he's a perfect fit. It's that simple.
    I see what you are saying but some QB's can succeed regardless. Joe took the Chiefs to the AFC Championship after he left the Red and Gold


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