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View Poll Results: NL Divisional Winner

Voters
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  • NL EAST

    2 10.53%
  • Mets

    0 0%
  • Marlins

    0 0%
  • Nationals

    8 42.11%
  • NL CENTRAL

    4 21.05%
  • Brewers

    0 0%
  • Cubs

    0 0%
  • Reds

    4 21.05%
  • Cardinals

    5 26.32%
  • Pirates

    0 0%
  • Astros

    0 0%
  • NL WEST

    3 15.79%
  • Diamondbacks

    0 0%
  • Giants

    2 10.53%
  • Dodgers

    7 36.84%
  • Rockies

    0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #31
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    Hitters:
    LF - Emilio Bonifacio
    CF - Jon Jay
    SS - Hanley Ramirez
    RF - Mike Stanton
    3B - Aramis Ramirez
    1B - Gaby Sanchez
    C - AJ Pierzynski
    2B - Omar Infante
    P - Josh Johnson

    vs

    C: Wilson Ramos - 415 k
    1B: Michael Morse - 3.9 million
    2B: Danny Espinosa - 415 k
    SS: Rafel Furcal - 4 million
    3B: Ryan Zimmerman - 12 million
    LF: Josh Willingham - 12 million
    CF: Grady Sizemore - 5 million
    RF: Jayson Werth - 13 million


    Pitchers:
    Josh Johnson 6.3 WAR (2010)
    Jake Peavy 2.9 WAR (18 starts)
    Ricky Nolasco 3.5 WAR
    Javier Vazquez 3.2 WAR
    Masahiro Tanaka: Won best pitcher over Yu Darvish in 2011

    vs

    1. Jered Weaver - 14 million (All Paid by Angels)
    2. Stephen Strasburg - 3 million
    3. Zack Greinke - 13.5 million (11,282,000 paid by Twins)
    4. Erik Bedard - 10 million
    5. Chien-Ming Wang - 4 million


    BP:
    RHP - Mitchell Boggs
    LHP - Iwase, Hitoki
    LHP - Mike Dunn
    LHP - Randy Choate
    RHP - Edward Mujica
    RHP - Kyuji Fujikawa
    SU - Drew Storen
    CP - Carlos Marmol

    vs

    CL: Tyler Clippard - 1.7 million
    SU: Sean Burnett - 2.3 million
    MR: Henry Rodriguez - 415 k
    MR: Yunesky Maya - 2.75 million
    MR: Ryan Matthews - 400 k
    LOOGY: Atahualpa Severino - 400 k
    LR: Craig Stammen - 400 k

    And by the way, those pants, they belong to my dad.And they're not really pants,
    they're Lederhosen



  2. #32
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    My lineup is better.
    His pitching is better
    My bullpen is better.

    And by the way, those pants, they belong to my dad.And they're not really pants,
    they're Lederhosen



  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fukudome4MVP View Post
    Nah, honestly, it doesn't bother me because their team is very good, just I feel that it's incomplete with their bench, and I feel like not having any IF's on their bench puts them behind us because of our depth.
    okay buddy, you having a better bench totally erases the fact that our lineup and rotation demolish yours?

  4. #34
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    Your rotation and lineup come nowhere near demolishing mine. John McDonald is your 2B.

    Also, what are you going to do if one of your IF gets hurt? Play Bobby Abreu at SS? That's poor management on your part.

  5. #35
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    You have a good team, but demolishing is very extreme. Our lineup is just as good as yours, and our rotation is deeper.

  6. #36
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    fly, please explain how your pitching and hitting demolishes us?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fukudome4MVP View Post
    Our lineup is just as good as yours
    How do you figure? David DeJesus is your leadoff guy, good luck with that. Phillips' production is predicted to go wayy down in '12, Votto and Pujols are pretty much neck-and-neck for the best first basemen. David Wright can't seem to stay off the DL, Bruce only had an IsoP of .217 last year (compared to a .246 of Lance Berkman). Rollins only had that kind of production because he played in a little elementary school-sized field in Philadelphia. His production offensively will go down in Cincinnati.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fukudome4MVP View Post
    and our rotation is deeper.
    Deeper how? Liriano has posted an ERA below 3 once out of 7 years for the Twins, and has only had a FIP lower that 3 twice. Ouch. Brandon Morrow is young and hasn't hit 180 IP a year yet. Cueto has had injury problems. In 2009 and 2011, Cahill posted a 4.63 and a 4.16 ERA respectively, to go along with respective 1.44 and 1.43 WHIP in a very spacious Oakland ball-park. Our pitching rotation is better.

    Also, why are you trying to downplay John McDonald? Sure, he's no monster offensively but he is a fantastic defender.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly View Post
    How do you figure? David DeJesus is your leadoff guy, good luck with that. Phillips' production is predicted to go wayy down in '12, Votto and Pujols are pretty much neck-and-neck for the best first basemen. David Wright can't seem to stay off the DL, Bruce only had an IsoP of .217 last year (compared to a .246 of Lance Berkman). Rollins only had that kind of production because he played in a little elementary school-sized field in Philadelphia. His production offensively will go down in Cincinnati.



    Deeper how? Liriano has posted an ERA below 3 once out of 7 years for the Twins, and has only had a FIP lower that 3 twice. Ouch. Brandon Morrow is young and hasn't hit 180 IP a year yet. Cueto has had injury problems. In 2009 and 2011, Cahill posted a 4.63 and a 4.16 ERA respectively, to go along with respective 1.44 and 1.43 WHIP in a very spacious Oakland ball-park. Our pitching rotation is better.

    Also, why are you trying to downplay John McDonald? Sure, he's no monster offensively but he is a fantastic defender.
    Do you know how small the park in Cincinnati is and how it plays? Also, DeJesus may not have a name, but he is a good OF with very high career OBP.

    You want to knock Phillips for regression? What are the chances that Berkman puts those numbers up again for you? You also chose 1 number to distinguish between Bruce and Berkman, and Bruce will almost certainly begin to progress.

    Wright may be on and off the DL, but I'll take him in the 4 hole all day with Gonzalez to back him up, because we anticipated this would happen.

    Liriano is awesome in even numbered years, I know it's an odd thing, but look at it for yourself. Cahill has been getting better every year and has a very high GB% rate, making him valuable in our, again, SMALL ballpark. We also have King Felix, who you completely neglected. Cueto has injury history? Hello Adam Wainwright? Morrow is young, yes, and I don't understand what that has to do with anything. Also, Wandy, over 3 BB/9 and an FIP over 4. Westbrook? The guy with the over 4 FIP, xFIP, ERA? The same guy who walks over 3.5 per 9? He's in your rotation that demolishes mine

    At least Liriano has the potential to go out there and throw a CG SO, Westbrook, not so much.

    A case can be made for either team, but demolishing? C'mon mannnnn

  9. #39
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    Yay Nats!

    My American Hero


    KoB Owns My Soul For Life

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly View Post
    How do you figure? David DeJesus is your leadoff guy, good luck with that. Phillips' production is predicted to go wayy down in '12, Votto and Pujols are pretty much neck-and-neck for the best first basemen. David Wright can't seem to stay off the DL, Bruce only had an IsoP of .217 last year (compared to a .246 of Lance Berkman). Rollins only had that kind of production because he played in a little elementary school-sized field in Philadelphia. His production offensively will go down in Cincinnati.



    Deeper how? Liriano has posted an ERA below 3 once out of 7 years for the Twins, and has only had a FIP lower that 3 twice. Ouch. Brandon Morrow is young and hasn't hit 180 IP a year yet. Cueto has had injury problems. In 2009 and 2011, Cahill posted a 4.63 and a 4.16 ERA respectively, to go along with respective 1.44 and 1.43 WHIP in a very spacious Oakland ball-park. Our pitching rotation is better.

    Also, why are you trying to downplay John McDonald? Sure, he's no monster offensively but he is a fantastic defender.
    What is wrong with Dejesus leading off? Instead of saying good luck with that, why don't you explain why Dejesus is a bad leadoff hitter with stats, or some kind of factuated opinion. Your leadoff hitter Elvis Andrus has posted similar #s to ours in David Dejesus.

    Last year, Dejesus played in Oakland at the colisseum which is a very tough place to hit, but in the years previous, take a look at his stats:

    However, let's look at his splits. Fangraphs has his average at .229 at home, and .250 on the road. Clearly there was some significance towards where he played that minimized his #s. In the GABP, it will be much easier for him to hit, similarly to his career in KC.

    KC 2010: .318 AVG, .384 OBP, .443 SLG, .363 wOBA, 125 wRC+

    if we compare that to Andrus' best year, which was last year:

    Andrus 2011: .279 AVG, .347 OBP, .361 SLG, .323 wOBA, 95 wRC+

    Clearly, DeJesus was a better player in 2010 then Elvis was in his best season. Now one can argue that Dejesus only played 90 games that year. Fine, lets take a look at David Dejesus in the previous 2 years.

    09 in KC: 144 GP, .281 AVG, .347 OBP, .434 SLG, .337 wOBA, 100 wRC+, 3.7 WAR
    08 in KC: 135 GP, .307 AVG, .366 OBP, .452 SLG, .355 wOBA, 114 wRC+, 2.5 WAR
    2011 (in Oakland): .240 AVG, .323 OBP, .376 SLG, .309 wOBA, 95 wRC+, 2.2 WAR

    Now let's take a look at Andrus..

    3 years in the bigs:

    09: .267 AVG, .329 OBP, .373 SLG, .322 woBA, 86 wRC+, 3.4 WAR
    10: .265 AVG, .342 OBP, .301 SLG, .298 wOBA, 77 wRC+, 2.2 WAR
    11: .279 AVG, .347 OBP, .361 SLG, .323 wOBA, 96 wRC+, 4.5 WAR

    Correct me if I am wrong but to me it sure looks like Dejesus had better #s, specifucally, higher averages, OBPs, wOBAs, etc. The only thing that Andrus has on Dejesus is his defense (which is a major part towards why his WAR is so high), and stolen bases. Other then that, playing here in GABP, will return Dejesus' #s to what they were in KC, so your argument is irrelevant.

    Next, onto Brandon Phillips. He had a huge year this year obviously, and one would argue it is because of his option year. But lets take a look at Phillips projections this year:

    .279 AVG, .334 OBP, .435 SLG, 19 HR's, 79 RBI's, 91 Runs, 15 SB"s, and a 4.8 WAR projection.

    You know what that means? It means his WAR projection according to his statline, and his defense at GABP, is higher then that of every batter on your team not named Pujols and Hamilton. Sure sucks to have him decline this year eh!

    Josh Hamilton, oh speaking of Josh Hamilton! You said David Wright can't stay off the DL. Again, this was a blatant accusation without any proof.

    David Wright's games played:

    2011: 102
    2010: 157
    2009: 144
    2008: 160
    2007: 160
    2006: 154
    2005: 160

    Josh Hamilton's games played:

    2011: 121
    2010: 133
    2009: 89
    2008: 156

    So I'm pretty sure, apart from missing 60 games this year, David Wright has been one of the healthiest players in the game, where he has never missed more then 18 games in 7 years. He is not an injury prone player, just had one injured season. Let's not forget that just before this season, every year David Wright was an MVP contender putting up WAR's of 6.2, 7.1, 8.9, 3.6, 4.0 over the years. You should be worried about Hamilton staying healthy since he's never missed less then 29 games since 08.

    Again with Jimmy Rollins, blatant phrases with no backup.

    Citizen's Bank Park in Philly:
    Left field foul pole
    329 feet (100 m)

    Left field power alley
    374 feet (114 m)

    The "Angle" (left of CF to LCF)
    409 feet (125 m) - 381 feet (116 m) - 387 feet (118 m)

    Center field, straightaway
    401 feet (122 m)

    Right field power alley
    369 feet (112 m)

    Right field foul pole
    330 feet (101 m)

    GABP:
    Left Field - 328 ft (100 m)
    Left-Center - 379 ft (116 m)
    Center Field - 404 ft (123 m)
    Right-Center - 370 ft (113 m)
    Right Field - 325 ft (99 m)

    The dimensions of GABP to Citizen's Bank Park are literally 5 feet apart here and there. They are very similar dimensions for a hitter like Jimmy Rollins, and his production will stay the same if not increase while playing a lesser role, and lower in our lineup with more opportunities to put up better stats hitting after, Dejesus, Phillips, Votto, Wright, Bruce.

    You are targeting Francisco Liriano, who is our #5 pitcher...He's not our ace as he is in Minny. Oh he's not even our #2, he's our #5..

    You know who your #5 is? Jake ****ing Westbrook..

    Liriano's 2011 and 2010 season:
    11: 134.1 IP, 7.5 K/9, 4.54 FIP, 4.52 xFIP, 48.6 GB%, 0.94 HR/9, 1.0 WAR
    10: 191.2 IP, 9.4 K/9, 2.66 FIP, 2.95 xFIP, 53.6 GB%, 0.42 HR/9, 6.0 WAR

    Westbrook..
    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...412&position=P

    Westbrook is nothing but an inning's eater, whereas Liriano has the potential of a #2. Clearly Liriano is a better option for any team as their #5 over Jake Westbrook and i think everyone would agree according to the #s. Also, incase we need to, we can easily move Liriano to the pen, and put Homer Bailey in our #5 spot.

    Brandon Morrow is a good pitcher, and last year he pitched 179 innings. He could of gone for 200, but Farrel shut him down early for injury concerns. You're a Jays fan, you should know that, no manager wants to ruin his pitcher. Morrow is 28 and was translated from reliever to full time SP in 2010. Jesus christ the guy has been a SP for 2 years, and has already been more relevant then Wandy Rodriguez's 13.0 HR/FB%. Do you remember who Jose Molina was last year? When he caught for Brandon Morrow, his #s were ****ing ridiculous.

    Guess who our backup catcher is? Jose Molina. Comparing Morrow and Rodriguez's #s:

    Morrow: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...346&position=P
    Wandy: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...586&position=P

    I love Wandy's high periphs with a 4.15 FIP, and a 3.72 xFIP last year, whereas Morrow had a bad year and his 3.64 FIP, and a 3.53 xFIP still outdid Wandy. More or less, Morrow's 3.4 WAR, disregarded 1.5 WAR. So clearly, Liriano > Jake Westbrook, and Morrow > Wandy.

    Johhny Cueto is injury prone eh? Again, no stats:

    Cueto's IP:
    2011: 156
    2010: 185.2
    2009: 171.1
    2008: 174.0

    You do know Cueto is 25 years old, and he was shut down with precautionary back issues? He strained a lat muscle in his back, nothing serious.

    You know what is serious? Tommy John injury. You know that thing that Adam Wainwright your #2 pitcher had? Waino was a horse in 09, and 10, but let's see how he reverts to form after a major injury like such.

    You obviously disregarded the age of all our pitchers, Cahill is only 23. Yet, you pretty much said, "hey, lets use ERA instead of FIP and xFIP so we don't factor in things such as the park they play in, bloopers, unfortunate bounces, errors.." etc. You said in 09 and 11 Cahill had his worst ERA years, well you do realize Cahill was 20 years old in 2009? You do realize that Cahill had a 2.5 WAR this year, his highest to date, you know why? His FIP and his xFIP were at it's lowest with a respective 4.10 FIP and 3.9 xFIP. More importantly, Trevor Cahill will experience success here in Cincy with our high power offense, Oakland ****ing sucks. We had the #2 offense in the NL last year, and added Wright, Rollins, DeJesus. Our problem was the pitching staff, and we went from Cueto, Arroyo, Bailey, Leake, spot starters, to Hernandez, Cahill, Cueto, Morrow, Liriano with Bailey in the pen.

    Needless to say, I respect your team, and you as a poster as you're one of my better friends from the Raptors forum, but what you said about our team was false, and had no backup with stats.

  11. #41
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    Oh and for the record, yes, John Mcdonald sucks.

  12. #42
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    I actually meant to vote for the Dodgers instead of the Giants, sorry

  13. #43
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    Nats
    Last edited by Super.; 01-29-2012 at 09:10 PM.

  14. #44
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    Yay Nats...

    Looks like Furcal, Werth, Sizemore gets it done.

    And by the way, those pants, they belong to my dad.And they're not really pants,
    they're Lederhosen



  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI4LIFE View Post
    I actually meant to vote for the Dodgers instead of the Giants, sorry
    Adjusted to reflect

    Quote Originally Posted by j0h@n63 View Post
    Yay Nats...

    Looks like Furcal, Werth, Sizemore gets it done.
    Apparently so

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